Here's how you get into Harvard and Princeton

<p>I was moved to tears yesterday by the Philadelphia Eagles. :)</p>

<p>Personally, I burst into tears with the Steelers interception that locked up their being in the Superbowl!!! <reaching for="" the="" kleenex="" next="" to="" my="" terrible="" towel=""></reaching></p>

<p>I screamed first and then started to cry!</p>

<p>Steelers were definitely the best team that I saw play on Sunday...</p>

<p>Collegemom:</p>

<p>With all due respect (and in agreement on a lot of things), you also can't have it both ways. Either colleges need all types with all talents in order to be full and diverse communities or they are academic institutions first and foremost. You can't possibly be suggesting that artists (whether they be musicians, painters or dancers) are more academically inclined or able than an athlete. They are just different in what they bring to the very long table.</p>

<p>There are bumps out there for everyone.. sometimes those bumps add up to a irrefutable hook. But if I went on CC and typed that my white son was held to a higher standard simply by the virtue or his skin color, I would be deservedly bashed for the inference that students of color or URM (not the same thing) were held to a lesser standard. Asians would claim they are held to an even higher standard than whites, and blacks would be insulted as if I had said there was no standard at all if they're athletes. </p>

<p>Frankly, if the black kid from an impoverished neighborhood had gotten great grades, been a leader and positive role model in his community and school, and scored every touchdown the team scored that year.. you bet your butt I'd want him on my campus. AND I would throw every resource I had at him to see what he would do with the opportunity. There is no way he will have had access to SAT tutors or an overloaded AP curriculum but maybe he had one helluva coach. Can you just imagine what this kid might accomplish given the opportunity? Do you really think he would have ever had an opportunity for someone to put a violin in his hand? After all, a football is a lot cheaper than a string instrument, as are the "lessons."</p>

<p>I just think we are all wanting the best for our kids and it is sometimes hard to look around the room and see so many worthy kids getting turned away from their dreams or, in truth sometimes, the dreams of their parents. We know they have all worked hard in their own right and even if our own children haven't done it via the same road, it was a journey and a road nonetheless. My kid might excel in the classroom AND the playing field. Yours might do the same but on a stage. And the truth is, fielding teams takes a lot more people than a trumpet section.</p>

<p>It takes all kinds. No one is inherently better than the other. And each can benefit greatly from getting to know and not assuming one thing about the other beforehand.</p>

<p>Actually, the best team I saw this past weekend was the UConn Lady Huskies who spanked the Lady Tar Heels by 30 in Carolina!</p>

<p>And, yes. I am suggesting that muscians, anyway, do better on standardized testing than any of their "subset" groups of their peers. It is a known and well-documented fact and most educators, especially those in music, can direct you to the studies. Music does not make you smarter. But those who do particpate in music, perform better on standardized testing.</p>

<p>I never, ever mentioned the color of anyone's skin in any of my posts. I would hold the white, lacrosse/crew athlete up to the same academic standards as every other athlete and those standards would be the same as every other student. </p>

<p>As you can tell from the beginning of this post, I do enjoy college athletics. They bring much to a univeristy and a community. I agree with that. But please do not begin to tell me that the rules for admission are not bent for athletes and that college athletics is not a business. It is what it is. But in regards to admission practices, I don't have to like it.</p>

<p>I have a musician kid and an athlete kid and they scored almost the same on their standardized tests (reversing math/verbal).</p>

<p>Alot of kids participate in both sports AND music. Both of mine did. Youngest stuck with orchestra longer than oldest stuck with band. The band schedule did not work with his volleyball or basketball schedule. He still did enjoy the clarinet though and still plays it once in a blue moon. It is certainly not true that sports minded kids do not score well on the SAT. Some do ,some don't. That's life.</p>

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I never, ever mentioned the color of anyone's skin in any of my posts. I would hold the white, lacrosse/crew athlete up to the same academic standards as every other athlete and those standards would be the same as every other student.

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<p>The point was: The assumption you're putting forth is that one set of students (any set - be it due to athletic prowess or racial identity or musician) will academically perform better or is actually smarter than another set. That you go on to offer supporting studies that this holds true only serves to prove my earlier point. I think the NCAA regularly points out that student athletes also do much better academically than their non-participating counterparts. While I couldn't point you to the exact studies, are you suggesting they just make this stuff up?</p>

<p>And while standardized testing is used regularly in college admissions to a point, it is not the only factor in admissions and it surely isn't a litmus test to an individual's intelligence. Frankly, half (if not more) of SAT is getting a handle on how to take the test - hardly relevant to intelligence and very relevant to affordability.</p>

<p>I do not see it as rules being bent as much as I say it is just something different on an application. You seem to infer that there is one right kind of applicant and the others are just handed something undeserved or unearned. It is neither of those things, it is just different. And to any school who looks at more than test scores and grades, a combination of EC's and essays might tip things into their court. But much like another poster pointed out, I've met plenty of really really smart people who were about as engaging as a rock. They might go to school for an education, but perhaps they will spend the next four years lost in the library stacks. So what if they have perfect SAT's and an AP curriculum that blew the roof off their HS if they are bringing very little to the before mentioned very long table.</p>

<p>Lastly, I would assume that most IVY's and Elite schools take a better and closer look than most other schools at a kids ability to do the work before offering them admission. After all, a good part of their ranking is dependent on them not flunking out or leaving the school entirely.</p>

<p>As for it being a business: Just because being a stock broker or investment banker was a huge money making direction to pursue when I was in grad school, it was never my desire to go there. And while we tried to encourage all sides of our kids with piano, clarinet and flute lessons, every one of them found their more natural talents in the rhythm of a game on a field. However, my children have also been going to the symphony since they were in the womb... so maybe just being able to appreciate the talents of the musician translates to those SAT scores as well! :)</p>

<p>I am all at once reminded of the time a few years back when there was a real push to define diversity and discuss what all that meant in my kids' school. There were a few parents who said they felt their children were discriminated against or rather excluded due primarily to the color of their skin. When I brought this discussion home to the dinner table, my son astutely pointed out (with particular knowledge of that parent's child) that it was true that he was perhaps excluded by some but it had nothing to do with the color of his skin. It was because the kid was just weird by traditional high school standards. Now,maybe the kid will continue to be weird, or maybe he will evolve into someone really interesting or just quirky. So his parent continued to make this a focal point of every parent discussion on the topic,but from then on I could only see that her viewpoint was myopic at best. But the bottom line was it had nothing to do with his ethnicity and everything to do with other kids thinking the kid was just a little off. It was just HS - warts and all. The same might be true for any subset. It's not fair to be labeled weird no matter what your interests or involvement,but it's HS.</p>

<p>I still can't get over that mathmom thinks giving "a lot" of concerts ("several times a year") and being nice to someone's roommate constitutes "giving more" to Harvard while there than the athletes who successfully competed to represent Harvard at the Olympic games.</p>

<p>Sorry Bay. I do. He did a lot more than be nice to my roommate, but I didn't know him well, I just met him a few times. :) And those guys on crew, they weren't really representing Harvard, they were representing the USA, or at least I hope they were.</p>

<p>There are many people who believe that athletics do not "add" to the college, in fact, competitive athletics "subtract" from the college environment. LOTs of different beliefs out there.</p>

<p>Hey Modadunn:</p>

<p>If it weren't for the music appreciators, the musicians would have no one for whom to play!</p>

<p>Still thinking good thoughts for your son and lots of fat envelopes (virtual or otherwise) to open this Spring! Good Luck!</p>

<p>CollegeMom:</p>

<p>Thanks for the good wishes... I so hope there is good news forthcoming.</p>

<p>As for appreciation: As I sit here and watch the inauguration, I say the same thing about leadership. Without followers, who would they lead?</p>

<p>Modadunn, There are certainly black kids who also play violin, believe it or not! Some of them are in my son's orchestra. My kid is in a city public school. My son does own his own violin but many kids just rent for a very nominal fee (and my guess is that even that fee could be waived if there was a true hardship). Some kids take private lessons but most do not. My son has never had private lessons on the violin. His orchestra does very well, thanks in large part to the leadership of a very dedicated and wonderful teacher and the dedication as well of the kids in the orchestra.</p>

<p>Yo Yo Ma's on TV right now! Very good performance but I was not moved to tears! I was however, moved to tears last month at my son's high school concert. I also was just moved to tears by the inauguration of Barack Obama.</p>

<p>I was just going to point that out Sevmom! Go Harvard! LOL</p>

<p>And don't go there about violin options. It wasn't the example itself, it was the point being made. There are exceptions to norms and norms that are exceptions. Not to mention, I'd love to see an orchestra at an impoverished school. Inner city and impoverished are not mutually exclusive.</p>

<p>I guess he's played in from of 25,000 people now, huh?</p>

<p>His orchestra did play in front of thousands at Pearl Harbor 2 years ago. I just don't get why some of you are so resistant to the idea that a bunch of high school musicians or athletes could actually inspire people.
And yes, there are many "impoverished " kids at my kid's school. Some suspected gang activity recently that the administration seems to have a handle on. A kid brought a gun to school last week and other students alerted security. I have to admit, I am glad my son is a senior. He has had many opportunities though at his school with athletics and music .</p>