<p>Hi everyone. I am actually a middle school teacher (English and Social Studies), looking for your opinions on something.</p>
<p>We are adding a new class period next year that is mainly targeted at our lower level students for review. However, I have been toying around with the idea of offering an AP class. I'm looking at AP World History. This is how I would select the students:</p>
<p>*They will all be eighth graders.
*They will have earned an A in Honors 7th Grade Social Studies (world history to 1500). I -MAY- accept a B+ with a teacher recommendation.
*They will be GT in English (for all of the writing).</p>
<p>We're really looking at 5-10 students, with a class period that's about an hour and a half long. My questions are, do any of you feel that you could have successfully taken AP World History in 8th grade under these conditions? Do you think you could have been successful on the exam? I'm talking a 3, not a 5. </p>
<p>I came to College Confidential because I know there are some intense high school students on here. I remember reading (but not posting) on the boards in college. I'm thinking these students will be similar to you. I've looked into offering an AP econ class, but I honestly feel that our students would get the social studies better. The remaining AP Social Studies (including Human Geo) are offered at the high school. The class won't be labeled AP on schedules because we can't go through the audit. </p>
<p>A B+ is still very lenient I would require an A-A+ is both Honors S.S. and English if you were to go through with this.</p>
<p>You have to remember that AP World is a VERY writing intensive course. If (according to collegeboard) most Sophmores struggle with college level writing based on exam scores, why would 8th grades do any better (or similar for that matter)?</p>
<p>If the 7th grade social studies class does not already have a substantial research paper involved in the curriculum, those with acceptable grades should probably be required to research something taught over the past year and go into great depth if they want to take AP World. This probably means using the internet to find primary sources, citing information, and developing a solid thesis statement. The papers shouldn’t have to be so long, but the students should be able to prove that they can do independent analysis of historical events at a somewhat high level.</p>
<p>I think that’s awesome of you for wanting to offer challenging courses to your 8th graders. You sound like a great teacher.</p>
<p>However, I don’t think AP World is a good idea. I took it as a sophomore, and did fine, but it’s a lot of work, and I couldn’t have handled that well as an 8th grader. I absolutely love history, and have always done well in my history classes, but that would have been a bit too much. I probably could’ve handled it okayish, but I probably would’ve gotten a fairly low grade and not taken it seriously enough to do well on the AP exam, and if I had studied really hard, I probably still wouldn’t have passed. I think few 8th graders write at a level that is required for AP essays. My classmates were great students, but only half the class passed the exam last year. Because of the low scores, College Board said how it was recommended that kids should wait a year and take it as a junior, and not even as a sophomore.</p>
<p>AP World is a lot of work. I wouldn’t recommend that at such a young age. If you wish to have a pre-AP class, then you will be fine, but I don’t know about an actual AP class. </p>
<p>Maybe you could have AP World be 7th and 8th grade, so that the students would have twice the time to learn all the material and work on their writing skills. Or you could have AP World as 2 periods, instead of just 1?</p>
<p>AP Human Geo isn’t a bad idea, though! A lot of schools let freshmen take it, and I’m sure hardworking 8th graders could handle it! Even if it is in the high school, I don’t think it’s a big deal. I mean, it’s pretty common for 8th graders to take Algebra 1 in middle school (and possibly higher!), even though usually freshmen take it :)</p>
<p>The problem with offering AP Human Geo is that it IS offered to freshman. This means that my 8th graders would either retake the class (which why would they if they passed the AP exam), or they would be put into standard 9th grade social studies. 9th grade works a little differently in that they’re in a “transitional” segment. All of their classes are on one hallway with teams of teachers. We do have 8th graders taking Algebra 1 (which these students I’m designing this course for will likely all be apart of), but there is a freshmen geometry teacher. My course would not have the authority to appear on high school schedules like Algebra 1 does. </p>
<p>9th graders can take AP Human Geo; 10th takes AP Euro; 11th takes AP US; and 12th takes AP Gov (as an elective). </p>
<p>I cannot rewrite the school curriculum so that 7th grade social studies is any different than it is now. They will have JUST gotten out for world history at a 7th grade level, so they will have background knowledge. Thanks for your input everyone. Keep it coming.</p>
<p>To my knowledge, there are two AP gov classes, though only one is offered to the high school. Would anyone recommend either of the gov classes? I think the seniors take US Gov. The eighth graders will have US History to the civil war next year. This course I’m designing is in addition to their 8th grade social studies class.</p>
<p>Oh, at my school you can take AP Human Geo in any grade, along with World History. (Actually, World History is split into 2 semester-long classes that you can take any semester, in any order, in any year.) You could take no social studies at all in 9th and 10th grade, if you really wanted to. There’s no AP Euro, but there is APUSH, along with AP US Gov and AP Microeconomics. I guess my school just has more flexibility in scheduling.</p>
<p>If 8th graders did take AP Human Geo, would they be able to not take a social studies in 9th grade and just have room for an elective, or maybe be a year ahead and take AP Euro? :)</p>
<p>There are two AP Govs: US Gov and Comparative Gov. Comparative Gov covers mainly Nigeria, Iran, China, Russia, Great Britain, and Mexico. Have you thought about AP Psychology? I don’t know if some of the material is appropriate for 8th graders, but it is considered one of the easiest APs! :D</p>
<p>I don’t know how many 8th graders out there would be able to write college-level material, esp the way the AP World Free-Response questions are designed. In fact, many 10th graders take AP World as their first exam, and don’t do well because of how “advanced” the writing is for their age; I believe there was a study by the Collegeboard on this. In addition, the large amount of information needed to be covered would require quite a bit of self-discipline, which I know I wouldn’t have had as an 8th grader.</p>
<p>For 8th graders, taking AP Human Geography or AP US Government (For a year) would be much more manageable. However, you can always test AP World, but my guess is it would be a very big challenge for a 5… but since you asked about getting a 3, that is probably doable if they stay focused and determined!</p>
<p>I wouldn’t recommend this. As a rising sophomore who took too many APs last year, I’d say the best AP course to start with would be Human Geo, by far. Concerning your second post, I see no problem with placing the incoming 9th graders into advanced 10th grade classes. If you show the admin an SAT or the AP Human geo score, they should be more flexible (that’s what I did).</p>
<p>It’s not so much the material in World- I’m sure you have kids who will work hard and learn it all- but, like other posters said, it’s the writing that we’re concerned about.</p>
<p>I agree with above poster, HG is much better for lower grades. I say this not because of the writing/knowledge but rather because of the dedication required to do well in APWH, to actually read 25-40 pages a week and take notes on them(if they choose to take notes anyway). That dedication is going to be hard to find in 8th graders, but hey anything is possible.</p>
<p>The College Board has statistics on the pass rate by grade level. You could email and ask them what the pass rate is for 9th graders and also for 10th graders. That might give you an idea of how low the pass rate might be for 8th graders. Only 670 8th graders took APWH in 2013, so the stats are probably skewed because those few kids self-select to be very bright.</p>
<p>The transition from middle school simple social studies classes to AP in high school was a little rough. In my case, middle school social studies was much easier than AP classes. It went from not having to take notes and getting a really high A to really having to pay attention and struggling to be on the border of an A or a B. Of course, I’m one person, and I’d say I’m much more mathematically inclined (really, I’m ONLY mathematically inclined). There is definitely the possibility of having students who are exceptional and will work hard to do well in the class and on the AP exam. If you can teach in a way that keeps little middle schoolers focused, it could work. How well the students do will depend a lot on how well you can teach the material. Seeing as you’re looking at around 5-10 students and I’m assuming an hour and a half a day for a whole year, it is certainly possible. </p>
<p>While a noble idea, APWH and APHG historically have a low pass rate because so many of the test takers are in the early years of HS, and are ill-equipped to write college-level essays, What happened to the concept of let kids be kids?</p>
<p>While I think that this really is an admirable effort to challenge amd enrich the lives of the middle school student, I do think that particular course might be too much for them. If the high school already has so many APs offered, what is the particular focus for adding that particular AP for the middle school curriculum? What may be a better option could almost be like a “pre-ap course” to prepare them for an ap course they can take the following year during ninth grade. this might allow them to reap the benefits of higher level work but still not putting upon them the pressure that the AP course provides. In addition, they will be that more prepared for the following year</p>
<p>I too think it’s a great idea to attempt to offer something more challenging to 8th graders. I personally always excelled in social studies and would have loved to have been more challenged earlier. As for offering this particular class to 8th graders, I don’t think it’s the best idea. AP Human Geography is normally one of the first APs taken for a reason. It’s a nice, low-stress intro to the world of AP - I would barely qualify it as “college-level coursework.” AP World is a JUMP. Yes, coming fresh out of world history may give them an edge, but middle school fact memorization and AP World are two different worlds. This class is very dependent on writing and if it weren’t for my 9th grade honors English teacher I’m not sure I could have handled that. It’s also a lecture-based class (like many AP classes). I personally can’t speak to the teaching style of middle schools because I took an unconventional middle school path, but as an 8th grader I certainly didn’t have the patience or willpower to sit for an hour and a half and take notes from my lecturing teacher. I also know in 8th grade many kids are still at that awesome phase where everything comes easy and they don’t need to study (I know because I was that kid). High school (and especially fresh yr) was a wake up call. I had to <em>learn</em> how to study, how to buckle down and read 20 pages a night, how to take notes, etc. I took AP World in 10th grade and did amazingly well, but given the class in 8th grade without the benefit of the things I was basically forced to learn in high school by necessity, I do not think the results would have been the same.
While these kids may be academically gifted, I’d question if they truly have the mental maturity to handle this particular AP class. </p>
<p>Like I’ve said, I cannot replace their freshman social studies course. They have to have a course in the transitional wing of the building. </p>
<p>New question that I’ve been looking in to:
What about CLEP? I know there is no CLEP World History, but what about the Social Science CLEP or maybe the sociology one? There’s no writing component to CLEP, so the collegiate writing issue is a non-issue. There will be some strenuous writing assignments, and I will still keep the requirements above. We would schedule an exam day at the local college, like AP classes do with AP Exams. Does anyone think they could’ve handled this in 8th? </p>
<p>@MSSSTchr I have no experience with CLEP but I know you mentioned AP Gov as an option (assuming you mean US Gov only)? This class is offered as only a semester at my school, so having the advantage of being able to extend it a full year might make it a doable class for 8th graders. It’s generally good to have a strong foundation in USH first, but if you’re teaching them at roughly the same time or AP Gov a little after USH, I think they could still retain the information. Then in 12th they could take AP Comparative Gov, Micro or Macroeconomics, Psychology, or maybe even AP World (though it really does fall best right after Human Geo when you learn all the countries, I don’t think I would’ve remembered all my 9th grade knowledge as a senior lol). And if the two classes you’re teaching don’t have to have a “connection,” I would definitely go with AP Psych. It’s not terribly difficult, but the subject matter is something most kids won’t ever see in middle school so it’s great exposure, interesting and engaging to them, and an easy intro in AP. Once again, I really do admire what you’re trying to do to challenge these kids. I wish I could have had a teacher like you instead of sitting in classes where I was bored and unchallenged for years.</p>
<p>PS does anyone know how accumulating AP credits before high school works? Do they still “count” come college time?</p>
I don’t know if some of the material is appropriate for 8th graders, but it is considered one of the easiest APs! :D</p>