I’m excited but a little uncertain about what to expect. On our fb group that a few Ross pre-admits who introduced themselves back in April have actually ended up at like Brown, Cornell, Duke. I thought Ross was a peer to those schools, especially with regard to investment banking recruiting. But maybe there’s something I’m missing, or maybe it’s just peers are turned off by the huge size of the undergrad as a whole? Anyways, I was wondering how common or uncommon it is for BBAs or pre-admits to go elsewhere.
I’m guessing the people in that group were waitlisted at those schools and then committed when they were offered a spot - so they did not technically transfer from Michigan. Transferring out of Michigan is pretty rare, I think the number of freshmen returning for a 2nd year is at around 97%.
“I thought Ross was a peer to those schools, especially with regard to investment banking recruiting.”
Ross is not a university, so technically, it is not a peer of Brown, Cornell, Duke etc… The University of Michigan, on the other hand, is. Ross and Dyson (Cornell’s undergraduate business program) are peers though.
That being said, high school students are more likely to choose a private elite over a public elite, because Americans look down on public education, and ranking methodologies, which seek to please the ignorant masses to improve sales and their own credibility, intentionally hurt public universities. As such, you will seldom see a public university ranked among the top 20, and for this reason, impressionable high school kids will tend to choose private elites over Michigan.
But as one that has studied at a public elite and private elite, I can confirm that there is no significant difference in the intellectual prowess of the students, or in the overall vibe of the classroom experience, or in the quality of the facilities, or in the excellence of education, or in the opportunities open to students while at school and after graduation.
When it comes to investment banking recruiting, Ross is obviously very potent and certainly on par with the universities mentioned in the original post.
I agree with yikesyikesyikes. Students almost never transfer out of Michigan. 97% of freshmen return for sophomore year and 92% graduate. The 8% that do not graduate usually drop out of college for financial or personal reasons. If students end up at Brown, Cornell or other private elites after accepting an offer from Michigan, it is likely because they were offered a spot off the waitlist.
I have a slightly different take! The craze for private elite universities, at times ignoring the quality of education and inclining towards a prestige tag, is more amongst the affluent immigrants who consider it a big achievement for their upward mobility. There is nothing wrong to consider private elite better than public elite, barring the fact that they have proven that in America merit matters the most.
Leaving Ross after accepting admission is quite a surprising fact. With regard to Dyson being a peer of Ross, in my opinion, is a stretched imagination. I have not seen many Dyson graduates in the Wall Street IB or in Strategy Consulting. It is quite possible that my remarks are mostly due to my narrow focus on large investment banks.
To be fair, Ross has about 4 times as many students.
@hannahw18 Your post is confusing. Do you mean:
a) Students who began their college education at University of Michigan Ross School of Business transferred out of the school in subsequent years to go to these privates? OR,
b) Students who were ACCEPTED as pre-admits to Ross turned down the offer in favor of these privates?
If you mean (b) above, then why would this worry you? For ANY school – even Harvard and Yale and Princeton – not everyone who is accepted attends. People have choices. Some students who had the choice of Michigan or Duke chose Duke. Personal choice.
Also, don’t forget, these private schools have better financial aid for students who would be out-of-state for Michigan.
Bottom line, what other students chose does not diminish YOUR choice.
Actually yikesyikesyikes, until 2014, Ross was roughly twice larger than Dyson. Currently, Ross (500 students per class) is approximately three times larger than Dyson (170 students per class).
My bad, miscounted - I stand corrected.
As you can see Alexandre bleeds UM Blue, although I’m not sure what private elite he went to since he appears to be a UM alum? Still most that get admitted will choose to go to the private elite school over the public unless there is a clear financial advantage.
“I’m not sure what private elite he went to since he appears to be a UM alum?”
I did my graduate studies at Cornell. Cornell and Michigan have a lot in common, at least on paper. Obviously, Ithaca and the Cornell campus feel different from Ann Arbor and the Michigan campus, but the universities have much in common.
“I have not seen many Dyson graduates in the Wall Street IB or in Strategy Consulting.”
Rintu, Dyson is not really known for Strategy Consulting. BCG and McKinsey do not usually recruit at Dyson. Ross is one of the most heavily recruited programs by strategy consulting firms.
Sorry Alexandre, but Cornell is a lesser Ivy. Certainly not at the level of Columbia. Then again, Columbia is not at the level of the upper Ivies either. Of course with 1/3 of its undergraduate population being transfer students, I’m wondering how “elite” Columbia actually is? Can you imagine being a freshman fooled by an administration into believing that all of the students in your classrooms are of Ivy caliber, with so many of them coming in through the backdoor?
This idea of “lesser” Ivy is ridiculous. Cornell, Columbia, and all the others are world-class institution of higher learning. Period.
I don’t think transfer admissions count as “backdoor”, but that just may be my opinion. I am usually more impressed by transfer students: they were able to perform in college, which is harder and more merit-worthy than high-school performance.
I agree partially. The caliber between a Michigan and Cornell student is, on average, indistinguishable.
However, the same cannot truly be said between a Princeton/Harvard/Yale student and a Michigan student.
They are ALL world-class institutions. You’re splitting hairs.
OP wrote: " I thought Ross was a peer to Brown, Cornell and Duke, especially with regard to Investment Banking recruiting."
Yesterday I compiled a list of IB target schools comparing the WSO results of 2014 compared to 2018 both of which were reprinted by P&Q website.
The 2014 IB Wall Street Oasis target school list as originally shared included these 17 schools :
1-8) The Ivy League Schools in alphabetical order
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Northwestern University
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NYU
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Georgetown
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Duke
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Stanford
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Michigan
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Virginia
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UNC (this was a bit of a surprise)
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UCal-Berkeley
Odd that the University of Chicago was not listed in either the group of IB targets or IB semi-targets. Had to have been an oversight as Chicago is arguably the most intellectual school in the country and certainly quantitative oriented.
The list of semi-targets in 2014 included 14 colleges & universities:
USC, UCLA, Texas-Austin, Emory, Rice, Vanderbilt, Boston College, GWU, WashUStL, Williams College, Amherst College, Indiana. Wisconsin & Illinois.
The WSO poll shared in 2018 listed 25 IB target schools:
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NYU
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Harvard
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Cornell
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UPenn
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Columbia
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Texas-Austin
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UCal-Berkeley
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Univ. of Chicago
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Michigan
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Virginia
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UNC
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UCLA
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Duke
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Boston College
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Yale
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Cambridge
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Georgetown
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Princeton
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SMU
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London School of Economics
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BYU
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Northwestern
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Rutgers
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Vanderbilt
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Brown
Odd that MIT did not make either list.
I suppose, but the top 50 schools in the country are all world-class institutions. However, the inputs are not equal, and the differences in SAT ranges will confirm that.
Harvard:
Reading 25th percentile to 75th percentile: 730 to 790
Math 25th percentile to 75th percentile: 730 to 800
Michigan:
Reading 25th percentile to 75th percentile: 660 to 730
Math 25th percentile to 75th percentile: 670 to 770
Those are very noticeable differences.
For some fields, namely consulting and banking, there is a noticeable boost in recruiting that HYPMS students get when compared to schools like Michigan, non-Wharton Penn, and Cornell - although all are target schools. For all I love Michigan, I have to concede schools like Harvard, Yale, and Princeton just do better with this kind of recruiting, whether they deserve it or not.
The OP should be confident, however, that Michigan will provide ample opportunities for any field. Ross does an amazing job prepping their students for recruiting (mandatory workshops, interview bidding system, etc.).
@yikesyikesyikes Still splitting hairs. Anyone who goes to any of these schools, regardless of SAT/ACT scores is highly privileged, using the view from 30,000 feet. If you go to Harvard or Cornell, you’re privileged. If you go to University of Delaware or Juniata College, or Deep Springs College, or Susquehanna University, or University of Miami, or Miami of Ohio, or Hunter College of CUNY, you are privileged. That’s my POV.
yikersyikesyikes post #16 is accurate. Student bodies with SAT ranges within 40-50 points per section of each other, or ACT ranges within 1-1.5 points of each other will be indistinguishable. Beyond that, there will a noticeable difference. The only universities with student bodies that are noticeably stronger than Michigan’s are Caltech, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford and Yale.
Wharton is #1 w/o a doubt, then Harvard. Berekely is big for SF but not NYC. Chicago is big for Chicago and not NYC. TX is big for Houston but not NYC.
For NYC IB, Penn/ Wharton, Harvard, Yale Princeton, Duke, Michigan, Cornell, NYU, Columbia and UVA are most common.