<p>This is an article by a doctor writing on a conservative Christian website. It is not a published study. Indeed, it is not a study at all. He discusses the results of the gene study in 1993 and its implications. But it is important to remember that even if that study was flawed, only one possible biological explanation for homosexuality is thus invalidated. That gravity is not caused by the magnetism of the earth does not mean that gravity does not exist.</p>
<p>Also, it is well known that the children of rich people are generally involved in fewer crimes than are the children of poor people. Should we, then, according to your logic, ban poor people from having kids?</p>
<p>I dont give a isht about the website..im not even christian..the guy writing it</p>
<p>Jeffrey B. Satinover, M.D. has practiced psychoanalysis for more than nineteen years, and psychiatry for more than ten. He is a former Fellow in Psychiatry and Child Psychiatry at Yale University, a past president of the C.G. Jung Foundation, and a former William James Lecturer in Psychology and Religion at Harvard University. He holds degrees from MIT, the University of Texas, and Harvard University. He is the author of Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth (Baker Books, 1996).</p>
<p>seems like a reputable source to me…do you disagree? what kind of source do you want? another Phd?</p>
<p>I have to leave now to go play ball..i’ll be back and then look for it aristotle…</p>
<p>This is a laughable. No University of Chicago student should be using Focus on the Family and other religious organizations as scientific sources. This will get you a 0 on your papers. Try harder, Sheed.</p>
<p>Sheed, am I missing something? In regards to the statistics, OF COURSE children reared by gay parents experience psychological problems. However, how is that the result of the FAMILIES’ problem? It seems to me that such problems are rooted in how society views that family. A kid with gay parents might be made fun of at school, but in what way is that the parents’ fault? It is the cause of widespread prejudice. I’m sure the same statistic was true for children raised in multiracial households in the 1960’s and 70’s. Did that make interracial relationships unworthy of bearing children and raising families? </p>
<p>And as people on this forum have consistently proved, homosexuality is, to some extent, biological. Just like the skin tone that was the source of prejudice (and “separate but equal” institutions that are the echoes of civil unions) half a century ago. Guess what–you can “suppress” skin tone just as you can homosexuality, and just as you can bring it out. In America, we tan. In other countries, they bleach their skin. That brings out and suppresses race, respectively. And homosexuals may suppress their urges in certain environments, just as they embrace or silhouette it in others. </p>
<p>“65. Homosexual relationships are characteristically unstable and fundamentally incapable of providing children the security they need. (Timothy J. Dailey, Homosexual Parenting: Placing Children at Risk, Family Research Council: Monday, March 24, 2008 “IS01J3”)”</p>
<p>Oh, goodness, I wasn’t aware this study was so scientific! I mean, all gay relationships are unstable, just like all straight relationships are solid as gold. Excuse me, my mistake.</p>
<p>I like how you just copied and pasted an article off a Christian website and treated it as something authoritative. You don’t question anything from a site that is blatantly biased? Is that the only source you look at? Shouldn’t you read articles from both sides if you are really interested in learning about the issue? I’d read from more neutral sites if I were you.</p>
<p>(sigh) I will get very very frustrated with everyone if I continue on with this little conversation… </p>
<p>But there is no way to prove and or disprove what someone feels inside.</p>
<p>But for real guys just go talk to someone who is homosexual… ask them. get down deep and specific and I believe you’ll find that it is most definitely a choice to feel the way they do.</p>
<p>rsslol5, out of genuine curiosity, have you had such conversations with gay people? If so, and if you got that result, I’m surprised. I’ve had similar conversations with gay men and women, and both sets have defended the genetic argument. I don’t think their anecdotes are isolated either–there are plenty of cases where gay people suppress their “tendencies” (for lack of a more sensitive term) before finally deciding that their feelings are more important than society’s norms. It seems counter-intuitive to me that one would choose to become gay, because that would mean also choosing to come up against a wall of enemies. </p>
<p>Sorry if that came off a little defensive, but I’m really curious to see if you’ve had deep and specific conversations like the ones you mentioned, and what the results were.</p>
<p>how are official medical authorities like the apa not good enough for some people? </p>
<p>and to those people that have their little anecdotes about people who changed back and forth etc. those people were never truly homosexual or heterosexual and are simply suppressing their feelings/desires. also, I can’t deny the power of the human mind. I think people can really shift their actions and thoughts on the surface to the point where it may seems like someone has actually changed… but they haven’t inside, they haven’t changed what is innate.</p>
I wonder why ALL of my gay friends are still alive! Must be ME!! If many of them are HIV+, I guess they hide it pretty well (the HIV drugs tend to make it look obvious)!</p>
<p>hahaha okay. i think it is hysterical that straight people think that gay people choose to be gay.</p>
<p>come ONNNNN! why would anyone choose to be alienated from their own society, family, friends, etc.
it’s legal in many states to fire someone for being homosexual. why would someone voluntarily choose to live that kind of life.<br>
i do not. i have always been this way, and no matter how hard i can ever try, i always will. i have come to accept that and so should others.</p>
<p>if i weren’t reading some of this with my own eyes, i’d never, in a million years think some of this is actually believed by the youth in our high schools in 2008! it totally sickens me. i know we should be tolerant of the opinions of others, but this thread REEKS of hatred and increased risks for acting out on their beliefs. for those who have the NERVE to use “christianity” in the same sentence with such hatred…i feel so sorry for your blatant stupidity and meanness. i can’t return to this unnerving thread. i hope some of you can continue to “light the way” (haha) for the blind and ignorant. ( it suddenly occurs to me i’d better say the obvious…that gays are people like everyone else and have no choice…see my post on research.)</p>
<p>I can’t believe people are actually introducing religion into the argument. Religion should have no place in arguments because it is based on FAITH, and not reason. If I have a different FAITH than you you, then it does not apply to me, therefore making the argument null and void.</p>
<p>^^ primarily why i decided to post it on the high school forum (before it got moved). </p>
<p>but seriously all the research you are spewing means nothing to me. most of the homosexuals i have known, including myself, DID NOT choose to be gay. seriously why would you want to be gay? what are the advantages? seeing that so many members of society are willing to embrace you for who are are… now i know that there are those few walking around out there that decided that being gay is “cool”, or women who are just soo sick of men, or some people who just want to be “different” or “rebellious” but that is usually not the case for 98% of homosexuals. </p>
<p>those who were gay and claim that they “changed” to be straight did not change at all. they simply suppressed all their natural feelings and go the route that they believed would be easier due to religion or need to be accepted by family/society.</p>
<p>i cant understand why so many people continue to compare being gay to stealing, murdering, or any other “sin”. i am pretty sure that people who do these things are perfectly aware of what they are doing and i doubt that people are born programmed to kill. these people are motivated by other forces which drives them to stimulate the desire to do this. making these comparisons simply do not make sense.</p>
<p>being gay is not a choice yet homosexuals do choose to live a gay lifestyle (which i dont see it so much as a choice since living a heterosexual lifestyle would mean suppressing their natural feelings which would eventually lead to a severally depressed human)</p>
<p>“I can’t believe people are actually introducing religion into the argument. Religion should have no place in arguments because it is based on FAITH, and not reason. If I have a different FAITH than you, then it does not apply to me, therefore making the argument null and void.”</p>
<p>See right there… that is the kicker. That is what makes or breaks this entire argument/discussion.</p>
<p>if you don’t believe in Christ or what he has done for us then you have no reason to believe God sent him. If you don’t believe that, then you have no reason to do what he says. Why would you obey a law from a God you don’t believe in right?</p>
<p>but if you DO know about and have accepted the awesome gift God has given us then the answer is simple. its laid out in scripture.</p>
<p>“Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”
Leviticus 18:22</p>
<p>Plain and simple. Homosexuality is a sin. Just like lying, lusting, murder..</p>
<p>But as a Christian how can I expect you to understand or follow what i believe if you don’t believe the same?</p>
<p>i cannot. it only causes hate and pushes away homosexuals instead of drawing them into the church.</p>
<p>so Christians.. Don’t hate on homosexuals.. Love on them. Just like Jesus would if he was hear today. Once they experience Christ’s love through you they will be open to listen and understand.
love the sinners.. you are on as well.
Jesus healed the lepers.. had lunch with a tax-collector.</p>
<p>No, that makes no sense at all, rssll5. The discussion is on whether gays are born gay or choose to be gay. Saying that it is a sin or whatever Christians believe does not affect the argument. The problem is that previous posts alluded to the fact that because the Catholic church believes that homosexuality is wrong, it must be a choice. This ASSUMES that Christianity has credibility. </p>
<p>I believe that you can be born gay. If I am correct, then it means the Christians hate on a characteristic of a person which is not a choice.</p>
<p>Dude, I don’t know anything about the guy. sorry, I just saw Yale, Harvard, and MIT, and was blinded, sorry for using a Christian person for a source. I’ll just go look for some Atheist/agnostic.</p>
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<p>Look at your face and go cry. I told you I’m not going to argue, stop following me around to every damn thread I post in and harassing me, what’s your problem?</p>
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<p>You tell me. They were the ones that chose to adopt a kid. I mean it’s obvious they cannot procreate, so they took a child who didn’t have a home and gave them one, which is pretty noble, and I respect them for that. They KNOW what society feels. It is their problem. How can you say say a child is not the parent’s problem? Are you serious?</p>
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<p>Ummm.I wonder how it’s the parents fault…</p>
<p>Federal crime rate statistics (Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports) reported a total of 140 incidents of hate crimes based on sexual orientation within U.S. schools and colleges during the year 2000. The nation has roughly 55 million students. The incidence rate of 140 crimes based on sexual orientation relative to 55 million students is 0.00003 percent, or three in 100,000. Yes, I am sure it’s a lot worse for muslims, blacks, hispanics, and even jews.</p>
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<p>I said take and leave what you will. I already said from the beginning I don’t agree with everything. Please go read everything before you write here. you have no idea what the hell you’re talking about. And it wasn’t off a Christian website..I think…</p>
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<p>Hearsay. No-one on this thread should ever say I heard this or saw that. We’re online, you can’t prove that. We don’t care about what YOU heard. That doesn’t tell us anything. I can say I heard every gay person say they don’t like guys, they just want to **** of their parents. Is that true? Hell no…see my point?</p>
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<p>Because they don’t want anything to disprove their beliefs. I mean same here..but I mean come on…</p>
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<p>I actually think this is a pretty serious situation. If you want to laugh in everyone here’s face and just not care about we write, that’s very insulting. </p>
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<p>That’s BS. Why would I choose to be a muslim? So people can call me a terrorist and I can be discriminated against? Don’t give me that isht. People do what they believe regardless of the consequences. There are murders and rapist and molesters out there. Why would they choose to alienate themselves? that’s a BS argument.</p>
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<p>I was never talking about hate…I actually do not know anyone here who has ever said they ever hated gay people in any context at all. Please refrain from making claims when you haven’t read everything.</p>
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<p>Then don’t</p>
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<p>No-one here has brought faith in this conversation at all. It was the people saying that gay was genetic that they wouldn’t trust a Christian source or a Christian scientist who did the research. I never brought religion up.</p>
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<p>what the hell? You posted the thread skin the question and you already believed it one way? Why would you ask a question you aren’t going to hear the answer too.</p>
If many of them are HIV+, I guess they hide it pretty well (the HIV drugs tend to make it look obvious)!</p>