honors program

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
21

<p>"Maybe your Hispanic background helped with making the Honors Program cut. I really don't think most people with similar SAT's should expect an invite."</p>

<p>How ignorant and degrading!!! I don't think I've ever gotten into an argument on CC, but I just couldn't help letting this statement pass by. First of all, you don't know how well nckid101P did in his classes, how well nckid101P scored on SAT IIs, what kind of ECs nckid101P had, and what kind of essays nckid101P wrote. Second, this is all awarded based on merit so I doubt race is a factor. Third, if race is a factor, it should be. Let's take a Hispanic applicant and a white applicant with identical achievements. Most likely, the Hispanic applicant had to work twice as hard (due to today's economic and social injustices) as the white applicant to achieve the exact same goals.</p>

<p>Anyways, your statement was really inappropriate since you don't know the true credentials of nckid101P and you just made everything that nckid101P has worked for seem downright worthless.</p>

22

<p>just wanted to offer my two cents about the whole affirmative action thing that mradio mentioned.. i personally don't like it. if anything, it should be based on economic status and not race. otherwise, it's just reverse discrimination. i'm sure there are many rich hispanic and black families and many poor and underprivileged white families.</p>

23

<p>I agree but that wasn't my point. Your proposal for economic affirmative action (which I agree with) wouldn't pass because admissions are now <em>need-blind</em>. If we got rid of <em>need-blind</em> admissions, the disadvantaged would not be admitted. On the contrary, the rich, to whom the university does not have to give any financial aid, will be the ones admitted. That is why need-blind admission was implemented in the first place.</p>

24

<p>
[quote]
Maybe your Hispanic background helped with making the Honors Program cut. I really don't think most people with similar SAT's should expect an invite.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is honest advice that I would give any applicant who wanted to get into the Honors program at UNC. Most applicants with an SAT I of 1360 should NOT expect to get into an Honors program where the SAT average is well over a 1500. Yes, it CAN happen. No, it's not LIKELY to happen.</p>

<p>The poster of this comment suggested that a Hispanic background may have played a role. And I think if you read A is for Admission (admissions process at Dartmouth) or Admissions Confidential (admissions process at Duke), you'd find that standards ARE lowered for minority applicants at highly selective colleges. Admissions officers tend to make the extremely gross assumption that an underrepresented minority student has had to overcome barriers just because other people of his skin color have had to overcome barriers. Therefore, being Hispanic would most likely help an applicant to a highly selective program.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Third, if race is a factor, it should be. Let's take a Hispanic applicant and a white applicant with identical achievements. Most likely, the Hispanic applicant had to work twice as hard (due to today's economic and social injustices) as the white applicant to achieve the exact same goals.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Speaking of being ignorant, do you KNOW if any particular Hispanic applicant had to work harder than any particular white kid? You DON'T. You don't know whether nckid101P is the child of a migrant worker or an investment banker. You don't know if nckid is first gen college or the child of a Harvard grad. You don't know what kind of barriers nckid101P has had to overcome. For all you know, he may have had to overcome far fewer barriers than a poor white kid with a rural background whose parents were high school dropouts.</p>

<p>You don't know what nckid101P has had to go through. But what I CAN tell you is that whatever his circumstances in life were, being Hispanic definitely did not hurt his application to this program. So when the poster who made that comment said MAYBE his Hispanic status helped him, that poster was not out of bounds.</p>

<p>Joey</p>

25

<p>"Speaking of being ignorant, do you KNOW if any particular Hispanic applicant had to work harder than any particular white kid? You DON'T."</p>

<p>I most definitely do. I have seen Hispanics at my school study their ass off, while working for minimum wage or less to help support the family, to get into college. Meanwhile, the white counterparts who go to the same colleges exhibit a much weaker work ethic and face much less adversity.</p>

<p>You are right. I have no clue how and where nckid101P grew up. However, I have driven through the neighborhoods where most of the white children from my school live and I have driven through the neighborhoods where most of the Hispanic children from my school live. And I have seen the barriers that the Hispanic children have had to overcome. I guess you don't think poverty, racism, and oppression are that great of barriers to overcome. That's pretty easy for you to say being a member of the dominant oppressing culture in today's society. Look at how many whites live below the poverty line and then look at how many Hispanics live below the poverty line. Then complain that the Hispanic gets an "easy ride" because you are too disillusioned by the materialistic dreams that oppressed the Hispanics and other minorities in the first place.</p>

26

<p>Thanks to those of you who have put in a word on my behalf. I have worked the past four years in order to learn and have enjoyed that process. I was not in school to prove anything to others, and much less to prove something to myself. I already know what I can accomplish and an invitation to an honors program is only an additional reward. </p>

<p>Also, these past few posts have come to show the true character of people, both good and bad. I now see why schools place so much emphasis on writing: it shows the TRUE personality of the author. If not the words themselves, then how they are used can show much of a person's character. I truly hope that UNC and other schools have learned to sort through the applications of egotistical students and concentrate on those with actual potential. I may not have a 1600, but I truly am happy with my score. I am self-motivated and don’t need a number to tell me what I can accomplish. My many achievements, including this acceptance into the honors program, serve as proof.</p>

27

<p>I think there was a time when "affirmative action" was very necessary. However, I believe that time has past. Yes, there are poor Hispanics, but the ones that live next door to me own their own business and drive a BMW. There are poor whites in very difficult circumstances, too. Poor whites have their own set of difficulties, including the fact that there aren't "programs" and special support systems specifically for them. I think they tend to fall through the cracks a lot (at least ones I've gone to school with). There is a student group at a state university here that plans a bake sale next week to demonstrate how descriminatory affirmative action is. Prices for the brownies are based on your ethnicity and gender. Price for white males is $5.00, price for black males is $3.00, and price for black females is only $2.50. The black student union is protesting, but... it does represent how whites are treated sometimes. "You can afford it, and you never had to work as hard as me." It sounds trite, but I really wish society could truly be color-blind.</p>

28

<p>
[quote]
I most definitely do. I have seen Hispanics at my school study their ass off, while working for minimum wage or less to help support the family, to get into college. Meanwhile, the white counterparts who go to the same colleges exhibit a much weaker work ethic and face much less adversity.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Just notice that I said used the phrase "any particular Hispanic applicant."</p>

<p>You know what? If a Hispanic student can demonstrate on their application that they worked for minimum wage to support the family, and if they can demonstrate that they overcame poverty, racism, and oppression, then by all means - they deserve extra consideration in the process. If an applicant can prove that they've been disadvantaged, then I'm all for giving them the special consideration.</p>

<p>But I feel that you CANNOT assume that just because someone is Hispanic that they have had to overcome poverty, racism, and oppression. Perhaps it is because I live in a wealthy area that I have seen far too many advantaged Hispanics and African Americans GAME THE SYSTEM. A system that equates skin color with lack of opportunity is inherently flawed.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Look at how many whites live below the poverty line and then look at how many Hispanics live below the poverty line. Then complain that the Hispanic gets an "easy ride" because you are too disillusioned by the materialistic dreams that oppressed the Hispanics and other minorities in the first place.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If a Hispanic lives below the poverty line, that needs to be communicated in the application. Applicants to highly selective schools should be evaluated in the context of the opportunities that they have recieved. But again, you are conflating race and opportunity. That's exactly the problem with the system. </p>

<p>When I read the section on minority applicants in A is for Admission, I was absolutely shocked at how wealthy, priviliged minority applicants were admitted with lowered standards. I'm all for giving someone an advantage in the admissions process if they can PROVE that they were disadvantaged. But if there's no evidence to prove that you have been, then you can get in line with the rest of the rich, privilieged white/Asian students.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Your proposal for economic affirmative action (which I agree with) wouldn't pass because admissions are now <em>need-blind</em>. If we got rid of <em>need-blind</em> admissions, the disadvantaged would not be admitted. On the contrary, the rich, to whom the university does not have to give any financial aid, will be the ones admitted. That is why need-blind admission was implemented in the first place.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Need-blind admissions and socioeconomic considerations of opportunity are NOT mutually exclusive. Need-blind means that students will not be denied admission based on their ability to pay. Need-blind does NOT mean that rich and poor students cannot be evaluated in their respective contexts. If a student has clearly conveyed in the application that they are poor (and the guidance counselor and teacher recommendations are a big part of this), then it should be considered that such a student has had fewer opportunities to do well. Therefore, if such a student has made the most of their opportunities, they should be considered very highly.</p>

<p>Joey</p>

29

<p>nckid101: Nicely written and well put. From the UNC information session we attended, the admissions person did say that the essays (and recommendation letters) were also looked at carefully (in addition to SAT, GPA scores) for honors & merit scholarships.</p>

30

<p>
[quote]
Thanks to those of you who have put in a word on my behalf. I have worked the past four years in order to learn and have enjoyed that process. I was not in school to prove anything to others, and much less to prove something to myself. I already know what I can accomplish and an invitation to an honors program is only an additional reward. </p>

<p>Also, these past few posts have come to show the true character of people, both good and bad. I now see why schools place so much emphasis on writing: it shows the TRUE personality of the author. If not the words themselves, then how they are used can show much of a person's character. I truly hope that UNC and other schools have learned to sort through the applications of egotistical students and concentrate on those with actual potential. I may not have a 1600, but I truly am happy with my score. I am self-motivated and don’t need a number to tell me what I can accomplish. My many achievements, including this acceptance into the honors program, serve as proof.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I hope you don't see my stance on affirmative action as a personal insult. I know absolutely nothing about your circumstances, which I've said repeatedly. For all I know, you could be a renowned concert violinist who has played with the London Symphony. The only thing which I do have to maintain is that if an applicant is an underrepresented minority, it can certainly act as an advantage.</p>

<p>Joey</p>

31

<p>And all I was trying to say was that most people with an SAT of 1360 are not going to be invited into the Honors Program.</p>

32

<p>I feel 100% confident that the admissions committee would not give an invitation to the honors program to anyone that they felt did not deserve it. Now lets just leave it at that.</p>

33

<p>As I mentioned already, I do agree with your proposed economic affirmative action more than affirmative action based solely on race. Yes, it would be much more just and would target a larger percentage of those who are actually disadvantaged. However, my point was that people should think before phrasing comments the way jacksongirl did.</p>

34

<p>Thanks mradio-
Others-
And the ignorance continues...</p>

<p>Nevertheless, all that needs to be said is that a great number of people mistake opinions for fact. As George Eliot once said "Blessed is the man who, having nothing to stay, abstains from giving us worthy evidence of the fact."</p>

35

<p>mradio:</p>

<p>I do not feel that my comments were ignorant or degrading in any way. And I certainly didn't mean them that way. I really can't even understand how you interpreted my post that way. NCkid101 himself stated in the "Minority Applicant" thread that he believed that being Hispanic "might" be an advantage because the school is looking for more diversity. I never commented that that was a good or a bad thing. I really thought I was just pointing out realities. NCkid101: If I offended you in any way, I apologize. But please reread my first post -- it was not even meant to be directed at you, but a comment to others that a 1360 SAT is not the norm.</p>

36

<p>Check the kid's stats,class rank,gpa.

[quote]

nckid101
hisp male
instate
SAT: 1360- 710v, 650m
SAT II: 800 Spanish, 710 Bio, 650 Writing
Rank: 4/380
GPA: 4.821, w
Student Council Chairman

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I would be happy to have him in the honors class with my D.
In any case, admissions may look at your URM status, but I believe that the Honors Program committee does a more in-depth study before selecting the candidates.</p>

37

<p>
[quote]
As I mentioned already, I do agree with your proposed economic affirmative action more than affirmative action based solely on race. Yes, it would be much more just and would target a larger percentage of those who are actually disadvantaged.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, I'm glad we at least agree on this matter of principle.</p>

<p>Joey</p>

38

<p>jacksongrl:</p>

<p>Yes, you were pointing out realities. However, the way you posed your statement, it sounded like you were disregarding nckid101's achievements and were saying that the reason nckid101 got into the honors program with a 1360 is because he/she is Hispanic. As everyone can see now, that is not the case:
SAT II: 800 Spanish, 710 Bio, 650 Writing
Rank: 4/380
GPA: 4.821, w
Student Council Chairman</p>

<p>I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your statement, but "Maybe your Hispanic background helped with making the Honors Program cut. I really don't think most people with similar SAT's should expect an invite." still sounds pretty offensive. I hope these weren't your intentions, but I'm just pointing out a reality of the way your statement sounded.</p>