Hotchkiss vs Andover

It seems to work though. I bet its the curriculum that has the most effect, but I still think Harkness is special. May I ask why you think its snake oil?

Are you an international or domestic student? Congrats on getting in through the waitlist!!! My fingers are crossed

Ski is a phillipian so he wonā€™t like anything Exeter haha.

All joking aside, I also wonder if harkness is the best way for math and some other more structured subjects.

Simply my opinion. Nothing wrong with the method, but saying the Harkness way is better than 14 kids sitting around a table discussing is just drinking the Kool-Aid.

I rest my case. :grin:

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There are better ways than an instructor lecturing at the whiteboard. Is Harkness better than a flipped classroom? Probably not.

Exeter math is very different from any other school, from what Iā€™ve seen (my dc is a current student) from visiting classes both at Exeter and the myriad of other schools where my kids applied. In my opinion, Harkness math contributes to a deeper understanding and stronger foundation than traditional math classes. My kid, who is strong in math but doesnā€™t necessarily have a passion for it, gets frustrated with it at times, partly because when someone outside of Exeter asks what math theyā€™re in they donā€™t really know how to answer.

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This is due to how they structure the curriculum more than how it is taught, IMO.

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You donā€™t think that their math is Harkness (or discussion-based :slight_smile: ) makes it different? Iā€™ve sat in classes where the teacher merely sits while the students do all the instructing; it almost seems like the teacher is there just to create and grade assignments.

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Exeter has exported its math curriculum/structure/materials to many other schools. Cate uses it for its honors track. Only some teachers are equipped to teach that way. And even among those - and I am sure this is true at Exeter too - some are better at it than others.

Harkness-shmarkness. I agree it is snake oil. Love the oval table, small class discussion, and all that. That is available at most bs. They main thing is how good the teacher is and how into it the students are (and how well the teacher controls the ummmm ā€œover-enthusiasticā€participants). Again, that exists at most of these schools. Call it whatever you want.

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Totally agree with @CateCAParent. The learning is dependent on the teacher and students. Calling it Harkness is pure marketing. Iā€™ve seen discussion on CC regarding who teaches ā€œpureā€ Harkness. Most BS teach in a manner so that classroom discussion is key. In Math and science things can be much more flexible in terms of how the classes are taught. There is no single method that works best. Having a good teacher in math who can teach at multiple levels simultaneously ( even in the highest level classes) is key.
Also, the strongest math student might not be a ā€œHarkness hogā€, or they might be. Control in the class is varied. One of my kids has only had an issue in a single class ( and it wasnā€™t math) but a humanities class.

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I can see where you are coming from, I agree that it is just putting a fancy hat on discussion based learning. However I do like the fact that it is applied in all subjects :smiley:

Thank you smooch for this reply. This is the type of insider knowledge that makes these forums so special. Math isnā€™t my passion either, but I am also quite strong in it, like your kid.

I love your branding of ā€œover-enthusiasticā€ classmates. Some kids are so passionate about the subject that it becomes personal for them, Iā€™m glad that teachers are able to keep them on a reign.

An issue with a ā€œHarkness hogā€(love that terminology btw)? If so, could you elaborate? Iā€™d like to be as prepared as possible.

Totally agree. It is actually amazing how many people are taken in by the Harkness sell. We donā€™t do ā€œHarknessā€ and yet (due to virtual learning) I can assure you that every class my kid is in is discussion based.

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Harkness is special - the ones at Exeter have pull-out planks that students use for taking tests. And it is very satisfying to push the planks back with a bang after you are done with a test.

Kidding aside, when a school declares that Harkness is the way of instruction, all students know they have to participate in class - it is just not acceptable not to be contributing to the discussions, even for those who are behind in the class.

Maybe at this point that is just how most boarding schools work; but when it started and for many decades afterwards Harkness had been truly quite special - it definitely did not start as Snake Oil. It is just that most other schools caught up.

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In a discussion-based setting, students typically collaboratively answer the teacherā€™s questions with their peers. In a Harkness discussion, students are expected to formulate questions themselves.

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Thank you for this insight!

Which is a positive IMO.

If I understand correctly, the whole idea of the Harkness Table is to pushing students out of their comfort zone, with an Oval Table being a tool.

Exeters Math is problems base, you are solving sets of problems and that way you understand the material better and see your weak spots. Train hard, fight easy :slight_smile:

ā€œThe battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Etonā€ā€¦ Probably too late, but one BS loss is another BS gain.
The battles of ā€˜Wall Streetā€™ were won on the playing fields of <your favourite schoolā€™s name here> :stuck_out_tongue: