How best to use AP and college credit to "place out"

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
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My kid, like many enrolling at UChicago, has many APs and college credits. I will list details and ask for advice as to whether my kid should retake these classes at UChicago and invite others to ask their own individual questions. I am also confused about the various levels of classes available in some of these subjects, and which would be best for my kid. My child is NOT premed and is planning to start a STEM and English double major, so placing out of certain classes could help to accomplish this goal. But advancing too fast could cause unneeded stress.

My kid scored a 5 in AP FOREIGN LANGUAGE. Does this mean my kid can skip taking a foreign language class at UChicago? …or will the Core prevent this? My kid enjoyed the foreign language but has not studied it for a year and may not want to take a foreign language in college in order to have time to complete a double major.

For other HUMANITIES classes, my kid scored 5s in AP English Language, US History, Human Geography; a 4 in World History; we and won’t know about senior AP classes for some time, but we are anticipating a 5 in the 12th grade AP English class. Are these scores really of any practical use in planning a 4-year schedule at UChicago? After all, I know a Civ class will still need to be taken to satisfy the Core. As an English major, are there credit available for AP scores of “5” in English? If not, can one really “place out” of an English class based upon high school work? My guess is “no” but I’d like to hear from students or parents of students.

In the SCIENCES my kid took college level biology and statistics at a state college and got "A"s but I doubt my kid would want to “place out” of either class at UChicago since the subjects seem to be taught at a very high level at UChicago. So what level to take at UChicago? AP Physics 1 was tough on my kid (got a “3” on the AP test) but things now seems to be going great with AP Physics II. My kid is taking AP Chemistry, but we don’t have confidence that the high school is teaching this class at a very high level. So what levels of physics and chemistry should be taken at UChicago? Will starting out in a lower science class at UChicago mean having to take more classes and thus prevent a double major? Will there be time to receive senior year AP scores prior to class registration?

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I’m interested in this as well. We have had some discussion regarding this with my son’s Admisions Advisor, but was hoping this was a topic discussed the admitted students overnight.

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@fbsdreams, I will attempt to further debrief my kid regarding the April 6-7 overnight to see if this was discussed at any point, but I think not. When you reference “Admissions Advisor,” do you mean the regional admissions representative? Are these different terms for the same person? I’ve not spoken to anyone yet at the school. Is your kid going to the April 20-21 overnight?

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Your kid can skip foreign language.

The other humanities APs are basically useless. Core courses need to be taken to fulfill Core requirements in these fields.

There’s a Chem placement test over the summer to help him figure out which level of Chem to take.

Course registration isn’t until O-week, so AP results will be available.

Physics C is the only AP Physics that is useful.

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@exacademic, perfectly to the point! Thanks! Does my kid need to do anything particular (like take a UChicago foreign language exam or fill out a form) in order to skip the foreign language requirement? Is the chem placement test given on campus during O-week? Is there a similar test for physics? My kid does not want to place out of physics, but if there is an “honors” level in physics or chem, that might be useful. Is there an “honors” science or math track at UChicago? I forgot to mention that my kid is taking AP Calc BC as a senior and needs to figure out a proper math class as well. Also took state college level AP Statistics.

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@Sam-I-Am The 5 on a foreign language will get your kid competency, but English has a foreign language requirement outside the college’s (unlike many other majors):

"two quarters of study at the second-year level in a language other than English (or credit for the equivalent as determined by petition).

Alternatively, students may take two courses in an advanced computer language. Students must submit an Intent Form to inform the department of their plan to use the Computer Science combination in place of the traditional language option.

As of Autumn 2013, the following course combinations may be taken to satisfy the language requirement:

CMSC 12100-12200 Computer Science with Applications I-II,

CMSC 15100-15200 Introduction to Computer Science I-II, or

CMSC 16100-16200 Honors Introduction to Computer Science I-II."

Those humanities class can earn your kid elective credit, but you’ll have to check how much and for what tests and scores. I think the policy last year was that you can earn up to 6 elective credits using AP’s, but that might have changed, as well as which scores credit is given for. You’re correct that no one can “place out” of a core English class–HUM, SOSC, and CIV have to be taken no matter how many AP’s you have.

My year, physical sciences credit was given upon a 4 or 5 on BOTH AP Physics 1 and 2, so unfortunately your child won’t be able to bypass that (unless they get a 5 on both AP Physics C tests). I’m not really sure about how dual credit with your college level class would work, but it’s really hard to get dual-credits here. Starting at a lower science class will most likely not mean that your kid will have to take more classes, they’ll just start out in a sequence that’s appropriate for their level of knowledge in the subject. They may just have to work a bit harder when they decide to combine the honors and non-honors version of a class later on.

And yes, you will get a chance to submit senior year AP’s before registration–you register during O-Week in September.

Here’s a link to AP credit policies (scroll down a bit): http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/examinationcreditandtransfercredit/#advancedplacementcredit

Here’s the major requirements for English: http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/englishlanguageliterature/

If you look at the major requirements for the other major you should be able to see if it’s a viable option to double major.

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@Sam-I-Am He will be attending the April 20-21 overnight. We are actually going in a day early for an event on the 19th as well.

I believe the term is interchangeable at this point. The “regional admission rep’s” actual title is Admissions Advisor and actually works in the office of Admissions Counselor.

She is who is assigned to our area and managed the switch to EDII and has answered some specific questions we have had (FA, AA, FA packages from other schools, etc)

https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/contact

I will have my son send a quick email and ask about the process and when the student sits down with the counselors.

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@aykt4245, wow thanks for all the information with links! Before I delve too deeply into what you have provided, are you saying that the extra English Dept’s foreign language requirement can be satisfied with 2 quarters of appropriate computer language? While I am surprised that the English Dept. has this extra foreign language requirement, if it can be fulfilled by computer classes that might be helpful to my STEM student since there’s never been an opportunity to take a computer class in high school.

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IIRC, the Chem placement test was taken online over the summer. Ditto the Math placement test (which everyone has to take).

A 5 on BC Calc automatically qualifies you for the Honors Calc sequence.

Physics has an accreditation exam but I think it assumes Calc-based physics. I think that one is on campus during O-week.

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@exacademic, since my kid’s school only offered Physics I & II and not the calc based physics sequence, I assume my kid should not bother taking the physics accreditation exam? Or is it required? Plan to start out in the lowest level of physics? If my kid does not qualify for the Honors Calc sequence (or any of these advanced/honors classes) is there some kind of repercussion? For instance, does my kid lose the opportunity to graduate “with honors” or any other similar distinction? Or will it be much harder to find research opportunities? And sorry, but was does “IIRC” stand for? :-/

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On a different page I asked @HydeSnark if there’s a disadvantage to not having taken many or any APs and he said “0 disadvantage”. So it’s probably not a big deal and only slightly advantageous to get to skip/place out of a few courses.

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That would be my take re don’t bother with the Physics exam. But might be worth asking about Academic Advising. Looks like the sorting among the various flavors of intro physics comes down to math skills and proposed major. Here are the descriptions of the different options: http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/physics/#courseinventory

Re taking the honors version – doesn’t affect whether you graduate with honors and generally doesn’t put you “behind” in terms of what you can take when (Bio’s an exception). The main difference seems to be how hard/time-consuming/theoretical the courses are. It’s important for your kid to keep time management in perspective when deciding how many and which honors courses to take simultaneously.

IIRC= If I remember correctly= you might want to verify this!

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Thanks @exacademic :smiley:

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Here is the chart as previously posted from the link above.

Advanced Placement Credit

NOTE: For students matriculating in Autumn 2017 or later, at least 3800 units of credit must be earned by course enrollment, i.e., not credit by examination.

Students who matriculated prior to 2017 should refer to the Advanced Placement credit table in the catalog of their year of matriculation for earlier guidelines regarding AP credit. Archived catalogs can be found here.

AP Credit Table
AP Exam Score Credit Awarded 2017-18
Art History 5 100 units general elective credit
Biology 4 100 units general education (BIOS 10130)
Biology 5 100 units general education (BIOS 10130)+
Calculus AB 5 MATH 15100 †
Calculus BC 4 MATH 15100 †
Calculus BC 5 MATH 15100 †
Chemistry 5 CHEM 11100*
Economics: Micro AND Macro 5 100 units general elective credit
English Language and Composition 5 100 units general elective credit
English Literature and Composition 5 100 units general elective credit
Government and Politics: Comparative AND U.S. 5 100 units general elective credit
History: European 5 100 units general elective credit
History: U.S. 5 100 units general elective credit
History: World 5 100 units general elective credit
Music Theory 5 100 units general elective credit
Physics C: Mechanics AND E&M 5 PHYS 12100-12200 ‡
Physics C: Mechanics only 5 PHYS 12100 ‡
Physics C: E&M only 5 PHYS 12200 ‡
Statistics 5 STAT 22000++
Studio Art (2-D Design, 3-D Design, or Drawing) 5 100 units general elective credit
French Language and Culture; German Language and Culture; Italian Language and Culture; Latin (Literature or Vergil); Spanish Language and Culture; Spanish Literature and Culture 3, 4, or 5 Satisfies the Language Competency Requirement
Chinese Language and Culture; Japanese Language and Culture 4 or 5 Satisfies the Language Competency Requirement

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@exacademic. I can’t find where it says that you can’t use AP credit for core classes, is that in the catalog somewhere?

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My daughter isn’t planning on waiving anything except an elective or two (which she will substitute with another elective or with something more intense in her major(s)). Even if she gets a 5 on her AB exam this spring, she doesn’t want to waive the first part of the Calculus sequence. She got a 4 on AP Lang and Comp last year and feels she’ll get a 4 this year on Lit and Comp. So no opportunity there. She’s taking Phys. I so no opportunity to waive anything there either.

Her APUSH was a 5 and Euro is likely to be as well. She’s delighted that these scores will allow her to substitute in more interesting electives or explore her major a bit further. As a potential history as well as econ. major she would not waive any principles or major-related courses, even if such were possible.

She also skipped AP FL so she’s doing the full FL sequence at UChicago. In other words, she will be getting the complete liberal arts exposure - and we couldn’t be happier about that. I’ve even discussed with her the possibility of staying on campus over a summer to do her FL (if such is offered). She is seriously considering German (took French in HS and did well but didn’t enjoy it at all). I think she might need the dedicated time to master this language so summer just sounds like a great idea!

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@CU123 Look at http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/thecurriculum/

I don’t remember seeing the proposition that only Core courses can be used to meet Core requirements in HUM/CIV/SOCS/ARTS explicitly stated, but

  1. AP chart lists what kind of credit comes from each test. Category for those AP courses I was referring to was general elective credit.
  2. Page cited above distinguishes among general education requirements (aka Core), courses required for majors, and electives.
  3. Page cited above then lists, by name and number, courses that may be used to meet each type of gen ed requirement. In one instance (premeds who take only 2 quarters of HUM) there's a recommendation that a writing-intensive English course be taken somewhere along the line, followed by a note that that substitution won't satisfy the gen ed requirements in HUM.
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Thanks!

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Current undergraduate here. At the risk of repeating stuff others have said above, here’s a summary of the Core:

Non-negotiable requirements

3 quarters of SOSC. Your kid is taking this - no getting out of it. Lots of reading - I had 40-60 pages of dense reading per class. Less reading if your kid takes Mind. More if he/she/they take(s) a stab at Classics. I recommend the latter, but YMMV.

2 quarters of HUM. Again, everyone takes this. It guarantees that every second-year, even the STEM/Econ majors, can string a few sentences together. No placing out of it.

1 quarter of art. Lots of fun courses to choose from, but the College doesn’t offer enough sections, so getting into art core classes is tough. Your kid should get it out of the way ASAP. There are invariably 4th-years who need to get into the right Core classes to graduate. It’s not fun. Don’t be one.

2 quarters of CIV. A history course by another name. It’s here so the STEM/Econ majors know the pyramids weren’t used to store grain.

Some wiggle room

Biological sciences. You can place out of Core Bio, but there’s no escaping the topics courses. They’re here so the humanities/social science majors know vaccines don’t cause autism, antibiotics don’t cure colds, and chicken doesn’t grow on trees. From what I’ve heard, these can be fascinating or a snooze - depending on the class (to an extent) and mostly the professor. Lots of topics to choose from.

1 quarter of HUM/CIV/art. You need a total of 6 quarters in these categories, so Sam-I-Kid should take an extra quarter of whichever one seems most appealing. I personally opted to go beyond the required 6, because I enjoyed the courses I took. YMMV.

YMMV

Math. Almost all students take some math classes - a quarter of the class majors in Economics, and UChicago’s approach is math-heavy. Those of us who prefer the humanities and social sciences still need to make change and solve Delta Epsilon proofs once in a while (one of the two, anyway). Several AP courses, with a good score, will provide credit for Calc 151. AP statistics can provide your second math Core credit. A mix of these may provide some credit, or none, depending on courses and scores. The placement test is easy; the accreditation exam is harder. If your kid wants to place into the 160s sequence, that’ll require a good score. It’ll also mean a lot of work - I have friends who’ve spent many long nights on one prof’s Problem Sets from the Black Lagoon (they still recommend the class and professor). Expect lots of proofs.

Physical sciences. AP chemistry and any Physics C course will let your kid place out - if Sam-I-Kid scores a 5. A pair of Physics C courses will do the same.

Foreign language. Congratulations! Your kid has fulfilled the foreign language requirement as a 0th-year. Take more classes in that language and aim for fluency. Or pick up a new language. Or don’t. It’s up to Sam-I-Kid.

Courseload, rigor, and credits - general thoughts

At the very least, the core will involve 10 courses. With no AP credit or language competency, or a voluntary choice to take some classes anyway, this rises to 18.

The English major requires 13 classes (11 if we ignore the 2-quarter language requirement). The longest possible STEM majors are Molecular Engineering (and Biochem or a BA in Neuroscience, apparently). All clock in at 19. At most, your kid will be required to take 47 courses (all the above except the language requirement). During 4 years (12 quarters) at the college, a student can take up to 48.* If a Core requirement is going to be almost entirely review/not that interesting, placing out is good and frees up space for your kid to take some electives. If it’s a key area for a STEM major that your kid feels uneasy about, take the class - the professors here are excellent, and upper-level classes can be difficult without a proper grounding in the basics. It’s Sam-I-Kid’s choice (with helpful advice from Sam-I-Parents, no doubt).

*Yes, students can take 5 classes per quarter. No, this isn’t a good idea.

If a hefty reading load is an issue, consider taking SOSC as a second-year. I had to rely on Sparknotes a few times when I took both as a first-year.

On honors vs. regular: There’s no “honors track” except the thesis (in place of a Long Paper), which is required to be considered for honors in many humanities/social science subjects. The benefit of honors is learning more/tougher material and pushing yourself. Be aware that in honors classes, students should plan on hefty workloads even by UChicago standards. This isn’t high school, so taking Honors Everything isn’t expected - or recommended.

Last but not least, my advice for Sam-I-kid: have some fun! The work is tough, and it’s easier if you aren’t holed up in your room all the time. Take a break. Do stuff that makes you happy with housemates and friends. Be good.

This started as a TL;DR and turned into a L;R. Report errors or omissions to ireallyshouldbeworking@uchicago.edu. Forgive the author - he’s very sleep-deprived.

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Thank you @DunBoyer - very informative!