Our daughter is a rising junior at a very competitive high school in Boston. Her school has just recently decided to discontinue the practice of allowing juniors to take four AP classes (an option, previously, provided the student had been given special permission to do so).
Our daughter, like several of her classmates near the top of their class of nearly 400 students, would have sought to take 4 AP classes in her junior year (with the idea that she would have taken 3 in her senior year.)
Though I appreciate the school’s concern that students who select this option fight find themselves “stressed” with the work such a schedule would carry, it concerns me that if she and her classmates area do not have this option, their GPAs will take a hit. This seems problematic if these kids are competing for merit aid down the road. Since our family will not qualify for need based aid, the issue of whether she will be given merit based aid will be a big factor in terms of what we can afford. The school’s argument is that this should not be a concern, since all of her classmates will be in the same position, i.e., with no option for a 4 th AP class in junior year. Am I correct in thinking that the issue isn’t so much one of competition within her class, but competition among the much wider pool of strong applicants to very selective schools?
What matters is that she took advantage of what her HS has to offer. The HS profile will be sent by her GC. Your daughter will not be penalized if her school does not allow her to take four AP classes as a junior.
Is your daughter looking for merit, or is she looking to be accepted to highly competitive schools? Getting merit aid to a highly selective school (ie Duke, Vanderbilt, etc) is extremely difficult and is not based solely on grades and scores- just getting accepted is hard enough.
Thanks for responding, twogirls. Yes, we are aware that finding merit aid AND admission to a highly selective school is very difficult. I am reassured by your comment regarding schools’ interest in seeing applicants take advantage of what their high school has to offer. I guess I was just wondering if a highly selective school would find it notable that the very strongest candidates from the class of 2019 would present with lower GPAs than did those from class of 2017 or 2018. Though our kid will present a very strong application, we are well aware that there are many, many other kids out there with similarly strong GPAs, SATs, ECs, etc.
No need to worry- she will not be penalized because the school changed its policy. At one point our HS allowed AP classes in 10th grade but that was discontinued. My daughter took 6 AP classes and attends school with kids who took 19 (!).
As a side note my daughter graduated #1 with “most rigorous” checked on the Commonapp. She received a lot of merit aid but none of it was from highly selective schools.
I would be concerned because she is not competing with her school, she is competing with others from around the country. The best merit goes to those kids who score the highest on PSAT and SAT with a high GPA. If she does not take the classes she needs for these standard tests then she will not well. The lack of AP will also hurt her GPA since she will miss the bump above 4.0 that the AP classes offer.
I think my local HS just does not offer 4 AP to the juniors. I could be wrong. If I had to guess, kids tale one or two AP (stats + History) sophomore year. Maybe three junior year, and then four senior year as the normal smart top kid track. It gets confusing because kids mix up the sequence. It is not set in stone.
We were never offered it in my school but for you it is being taken away. I would be concerned about the lost opportunity that this is causing.
How does this play out in ranking? It seems that everyone’s GPA would take a hit then and class ranking would all be on equal footing?
So far, some of the merit aid we have encountered does involve a favorable class rank. But these are not “highly selective schools”—we cannot afford our EFC at those schools and we did not allow her to apply. Message me if you want to know details of how this played out!
I concur with the comment upthread–as long as your D takes the most challenging courses that your hs has to offer, she won’t be at a disadvantage. I think the best course of action is for your D to continue to concentrate on the classes she’s taking and try not to stress about the number of APs.
I don’t think schools look at GPA the way you are proposing. I believe most colleges unweight the GPA’s since there are so many ways of weighting. In this case, your daughter’s GPA would not suffer… only her “rigor”. However rigor is dependent on what is offered in her school. So, she should not be negatively impacted by the change, in my opinion at least. For instance my high school and 2 nearby schools all weight differently.
@garvey in terms of receiving merit aid - a piece of advice is to choose schools carefully. It’s very easy to fall in love with Emory ( for example) and think you ( not you specifically lol) will receive merit. Five years ago our HS had several Emory Scholars but now those same kids would not receive merit at all. In order to get merit - especially being from the northeast- you need to go down in selectivity… or really have what they are looking for.
Lots of great feedback - I really appreciate your thoughtful responses! Our school discontinued the practice of ranking kids a number of years ago. Ours is a public exam school - we are given the impression that colleges will be aware that the curriculum offered by our school is highly rigorous - not sure how this plays out in real life. To give some idea, 26 students from the class of 2016 were admitted to Harvard.
Beyond the issue of college admissions, part of what concerns me is that the strongest of our students, including iur daughter, won’t have access to courses that are appropriately challenging or meet their interest. Also, it seems like one of those occasions where a few “squeaky wheels” will work behind the scenes to get their kids an exemption from this policy, while those who are less strident/vocal will simply comply.
This is not a big deal at all. Your daughter First, your kid is taking the most challenging curriculum available at your school so her GC can easily tick that box in her recommendation. Second, many schools look at unweighted GPA over weighted GPA anyway, particularly if those kids are taking the most challenging courses available. Third, since she is only a sophomore you should have time to try and save more money for her education particularly as your family seems to make enough money to not qualify for need-based aid (or alternatively to look for alternative solutions such as lower cost universities or automatic merit scholarships).
Sounds like a selective school. It’s a good thing she won’t be applying to Harvard since you need merit aid!
Have her optimize all of the classes she can. Have her optimize what SHE truly wants to take. Consider dual credit or an online class if you truly don’t have access.
@garvey my daughter was admitted to several non Ivy selective schools ( did not apply to any Ivies) and chose not to take any AP social studies type classes. She stuck to honors and it made no difference in terms of acceptances or merit ( merit at less selective schools- even with AP SS classes she would not have received merit at top schools that give it).
In my daughter’s case the AP social studies courses were available and she chose not to take them. Your daughter should not be penalized if she does not have access- the GC can mention this in his letter.
If your daughter receives top grades in challenging classes and has strong test scores, my guess is that she will receive merit aid if you choose the right schools.
@twogirls, what I mean is that if there are just 3 APs open to her, and she is a strong enough student that she would excel in or have an interest in more than 3, she, and others in her position are left with no choice but to take the less advanced versions of courses they are required to take, anyway, i.e., US History instead of AP US History. Since she will probably pursue math/science in college, she will take things like AP Biology, AP version of whatever is next year’s math, etc. AP Writing and AP US History would be very accessible courses for her, and it’s kind of a given at her school that the top students would take those courses.
@garvey if she is permitted to take 3 AP classes as a junior, and she takes 3 APS with the rest being honors, she will be fine. No worries! Focusing on her interests sounds like a great plan.
If your goal is merit, she won’t be applying to any Ivies and she will need several safeties. You might also want to look at the net price calculators at selective schools that meet need - it’s possible you will qualify for aid even if right now you don’t think you will.
@garvey I also want to point out to you that if at any point you will have two in college at the same time, your EFC will be lower. You will always have to meet your EFC at schools that meet full need.
If the NPC’s show that you may get aid to bring the cost down to a price that you can pay, you may want to make a list of schools that meet need, schools that will likely give your daughter merit, and schools that are affordable to you without any FA or merit (this may be your instate public). Once again you need to keep in mind that in order to get merit, you will likely need to go down in selectivity.
Keep in mind that the NPC’s are only as accurate as the info you put in, and they are not accurate for those who are divorced or self employed.
Agree with the above – it is a non-issue. But as an aside, if the restrictions on AP classes are not evident on the HS profile, you might ask the GC to mention it in his/her recommendation.
No issue. The high school is probably responding to the extreme pressure that students feel today. It’s only one class, and the schools profile should say junior can only take 3 APs, so a university will not punish her for taking 3.
Do not underestimate the pressure–it is overwhelming for many students. Very few enjoy a process that really should be about finding the best match, given financial considerations. Your daughter and her friends are going to go to a great school with lots of amazing people, students and professors. As an adult, with kids having gone through the process in recent years, I think of my own memories. What’s more important to me? That I enjoyed my high school years or that I took one more AP that perhaps made my transcript look slightly different to a half dozen or so admissions officers. I hope your daughter enjoys high school as high school, not pre-college, and that she takes time to explore and reflect on who she is and what inspires her. Being able to answer those questions, will serve her much better in the future than any minor difference in curriculum. Good luck to her.
I agree, TTG, and I really appreciate your perspective. I will definitely work to keep this in mind as we think about next steps.
@twogirls, good point about the impact of having more than kid in school at a time - that will be our situation as our older child is starting college I’m September of this year.
I agree that the cross-school comparison issue is not a big deal anyway, since all schools compute their GPAs differently.
On a related topic, I am happy that my kids high school required that all students have a study hall or free period, despite pressure by parents and students that the students need an additional course to be competitive. When I was in high school, I was rank obsessed and so never was able to have a study hall.