How many kids choose a school because they auditioned and got in, even though they know they would probably be accepted into more academically challenging schools based on their scores, if they weren’t studying theatre?
I think that it is a fairly common thing. While some renowned programs are in top academic schools (CMU, U of M, NYU, Northwestern etc) many are not, An example would be the red hot Tx state program, as I understand it, not a particularly academically challenging school. For some- getting the top training is the goal- and the rest of the school doesn’t matter. After all, at most BFA schools, kids aren’t taking a ton of outside classes. Even at CMU- which is a fantastic school, the story has always been that you don’t have to meet the university wide standard for admission- it’s all about your audition, b/c a student there will only take a tiny # of outside classes.
D’s rule of thumb was that if she would 't consider that college WITHOUT theater, then she shouldn’t apply just b/c they had a good theater program. She mostly stuck to that, choosing to apply/audition primarily at schools with high academic standards. In the end however, she turned down her most challenging academic admit b/c she wanted a BFA not a BA
it is a hard decision. Our D turned down some really good academic institutions in favor of her school. And it did make us pause and think before making a final decision. Her school is not known to be particularly hard to get in academically. But it is considered to be a very strong MT program. We felt it might be a bit of a trade off.There are advantages:
- Qualify for more and larger scholarships
- Opportunity to participate in honors programs if you choose
- Less stress
- More time to participate in extracurriculars, including taking on leadership positions.
- Strong alumni network in her chosen field
You may be surprised at what opportunities some of these small schools offer. For example, D got to have breakfast last year with Sandra Day O’Connor as part of a special leadership program she was chosen for. And academically she has had some great professors and some challenging classes. In the end she will have a college degree and fantastic training in MT and she has been able to attend a school she adores.
And someday if she should decide to change focus and go to law school or medical school or anything else she chooses to do, she will still be able to do that. She is learning and she is happy! We couldn’t ask for anything else.
I think it is very common to attend a strong BFA in MT program in a less academically selective college than you may have attended if you weren’t seeking a BFA. The fact is that most of the BFA in MT programs are located within universities that are not super selective academically for admission. I feel you really have to go where the programs are located. In many ways, a BFA candidate is selecting the program first and the university second, even though both are important considerations.
Personally speaking, my D was a strong academic student and enjoys challenges. Her first choice would be a BFA in MT program located within a more academically selective university. Her first choice program was at NYU/Tisch and her second choice was U of Michigan, both of which are academically selective schools. However, she would have foregone an academically selective school to attend a very good BFA program had she not gotten into and attended NYU. I do believe a more academically selective university was the most appropriate fit for her, but there just are not that many BFA programs in such universities and so she would have compromised on that to attend a BFA program that was excellent but not in such a selective university. As an aside, I recall if local people asked her where she applied to college, and she named some schools on her list, they were like: “oh of course she’ll get in there!” because they knew she was a very good student and most schools on her list were academic sure bets, but these folks would have no clue how difficult it is to get into the BFA programs themselves!
In any case, if you have a very strong student, and that student really wants a BFA, there is a limited number of BFAs located in very selective universities. The option is to compromise and also add BFA programs in less selective universities, or apply to some BAs in selective universities.
I have to echo what @soozievt said. My son is a very strong student but since he wants a BFA intensive type program he is looking at the program first and the university second. They key is the training you will get, not the academics outside of the BFA. Now, if what you want is a BA and have exposure to other fields of study or even a double major then I think you do put the school first and program second.
In our case we did want our son to experience a full college experience so we did encourage schools that provided that. But the academic reputation was second to the quality of the BFA program. The good news is he’s been offered several nice academic scholarships!
Just another point - I don’t think this is an issue exclusive to musical theater majors. Many times students elect to attend schools with less name recognition or academic reputation for a variety of reasons. Cost, location, a particular course of study, fellowships or opportunities to study abroad are just a few of the many reasons kids choose a certain school. I am a true believer that you can get a great education anywhere you attend. You may have to seek out more challenging classes, special projects or independent courses of study to find the type of academic challenge you desire, but you can find ways to push yourself beyond the basic curriculum if you wish. I think for every person, what matters most to them in the college selection process will differ. But be true to yourself.And go where you will be happiest and get the education you are seeking. Don’t automatically discount schools without really understanding what they have to offer you. In the end, the best decision is what makes the best sense for you and your family. Not what anyone else thinks.
It’s certainly a hard choice–especially when finances come into play. More academically selective schools tend to be more expensive, and as an international student, I had a hard and fast limit of how much my family was willing and able to put towards my education per year. I had grades and scores in line with graduates of my high school who had gone on to Ivy League schools and the related ilk, but the programs on that academic level which offered BFAs in MT (and I did want that degree in particular, although that’s certainly a personal choice as well) were simply out of my family’s price range. I’m at a school that is not particularly challenging right now, and I will be honest: it can be frustrating. But I have to second the merits of being at a less academically rigorous school that @vvnstar mentioned, and also say that for a bright, academically-motivated student, he/she will find a way to enrich his/her education (if that’s what they so desire!) if the program is right for him/her and the faculty is on his/her side. My current work as a dramaturg in one of this semester’s mainstage productions feels like the equivalent of writing a thesis–and I’m loving it.
Freshman S would settle for nothing that wasn’t a BFA experience. He was accepted into MT BFA program at fairly rigorous school, but received full scholarship at less rigorous school. It was a no-brainer for our family. Graduating debt-free with excellent MT-related training was too good a deal to pass up. Does S miss being in a more “intellectual” environment? So far he’s been too tired to think about it. Does he have time to hit the practice studios, gym work-outs and participate in student-run productions? Yes. And who says paying for college credit is the ONLY acceptable way to learn? Libraries, internet, internships, and life experience are all full of valuable learning opportunities. Smart kids will seek out challenges and intriguing ideas regardless of how academically selective the school is.
That’s a very personal choice. D was not 100% sure that she would want to commit to being a performer after graduation. She was 100% committed to music musical theatre, acappella and choir in high school and was the “star” at high school. But she had reservations as to how that would translate into life after college and whether that would be the lifestyle that she wanted. She knew she wanted to continue studying musical theatre or voice in college, but wanted a school where she could pursue other things as well. She was top 5% of her HS and president of the school, so she wanted the opportunity to challenge herself academically as well.
She ended up at NYU getting a BM in VP with a concentration in musical theatre. She also had a minor in the Business of Entertainment, Media and Technology and another minor in English literature.
She probably decided by junior year that she did not want to pursue theatre full time. Instead of trying for summer stock, her summers were spent interning for producers, casting agencies and doing marketing at DreamWorks and Sony.
she is happy with her choice, performs occasionally, and is working at a top talent agency in their theatre dept. Going to a top school that allowed her to go in various directions in terms of music and theatre ended up the right fit for her.
Our D is and always has been 100% committed to a career in MT, but her priorities were different than most folks above so they may be worth mentioning. Her thinking was that she may spend the rest of her life “studying” MT (voice, dance and acting classes), but she will probably only have 4 years of college. With that in mind, her priority was getting the richest college experience possible (which for her meant very strong academics on a traditional college campus) in addition to solid theatre training. Her top 3 school choices were Northwestern followed by Yale then Brown. If none of those had panned out she also had UMich, Penn State, CMU, CCM, etc, on her list.
I would instead say that academically selective schools offer less MERIT aid, since all admitted students deserve merit aid, but many are VERY well endowed so they may offer far better need-based aid than other schools. We have also found that well-endowed schools may offer admitted students many other perks including travel, masterclasses, etc. once they are enrolled.
Many very smart MT kids opt for BFA’s in less academically-selective schools, but not all do. There is no single “correct” path. 
I have known plenty of MT kids who wanted the academic selectivity more than the BFA itself. So they applied to the likes of Northwestern, Yale, Brown, etc. and perhaps just a couple of BFAs like NYU and U of Michigan.
In my D’s case, she only applied to BFAs because she wanted a BFA program. Luckily she landed at NYU and so she got the mix of a BFA program but a pretty selective academic school as well.
There are a great many top talented MT kids who land at BA schools that don’t have a MT degree. I happened to see a Hasty Pudding Theatricals show this past weekend at Harvard and the talent was top notch. Off the top of my head, I can think of two MT buddies of my D’s who had the talent to attend a BFA, but opted for Yale and one is the standby for a lead on Broadway right now and the other is playing a major role in a National Tour right now. I know others who attended too, but just mentioning these kids.
I like the point that @MomCares makes above. Most performers will continue to work on their craft all their lives- but college is a very unique part of the lifespan. So in choosing a list of schools- it’s important to look for the college experience you want. That is why I strongly advocate visiting schools (if possible) before applying. And visit a wide range. My D was pretty sure she wanted an east coast urban college experience before she started, but we looked at all kinds - from tiny midwestern LACs to great big schools in big cities. Then she did the dance, got her acceptances, and we dug into the nitty gritty of $$, programs, environments etc. (and she ended up at an east coast urban school!) It gets said all the time, but is always valuable to mention- there is no ONE correct path. I know great kids at top notch BFA programs at “less than” academic schools who are happy as clams, I know great kids at top notch academic schools not as well known for theater who are creating their own artistic opportunities on and off campus.
thank you to everyone, these are all great replies and are very helpful as we begin to navigate the path. my D has said that while she wants to study theatre, it’s important to her to find a good school academically but that she also feels will be a good fit overall. We’ll soon start making the college visits and I appreciate hearing what everyone has shared.
We’re like mom4bwayboy. My D is very strong academically (she goes to a performing arts high school where admittance was based on audition AND grades and test scores), takes all honors classes, and has a 96 average. But in college, she wants to focus purely on acting and musical theatre training - she doesn’t want to take a lot of academic classes. So that being the case, she doesn’t care if it’s an academically selective college - she just wants one with very strong musical theatre training. She also wants to stay in New York or nearby. (We live in Brooklyn.)
So with that in mind, schools like Marymount Manhattan (she’d like to do the BFA in acting with the musical theatre minor) and the Molloy/CAP21 program are very attractive to us: schools with great musical theatre training AND tons of merit aid for a strong academic student, which would make them very affordable so she wouldn’t have to have too much student debt. NYU is less appealing because it’s SO expensive and she wouldn’t get merit aid, since ALL the students they accept are strong academically.
So our feeling is that if she’s going to focus on musical theatre training, the regular academics aren’t important, and a less academically selective school will give her a lot of merit aid money. (However, the musical theatre training has to be top notch.)
We found the college application and audition process so daunting (uber-competitive, expensive and time consuming), we sort of gently pushed our D for a BA vs BFA decision spring/summer of her junior year. I would have supported either path, but I thought trying to simultaneously pursue both application/audition processes well would have been too difficult for us. D decided on the BA route, but she kept NYU and BU on her near-final list because they both held auditions in our city and allowed for ample non-theatre academic studies.
She is thus far happy in a BA program and has worked with many talented kids and is right now in rehearsals for a student-written and directed musical, but as we explore summer opportunities it’s clear to me she’s not as technically competitive as MT conservatory trained kids. I think she would need to supplement her summers and/or pursue an MFA later to try to achieve that level - if that’s what she wants.
I agree that it happens and that when it does, smart, curious kids find ways to challenge themselves. My S for instance ended up at a pretty non-academic conservatory setting (honors student, 5th in class, very good but not Ivy-level SATs) and essentially AP’d out of his academic requirements. Last time I talked to him, he was working on three different plays, trying to figure out which one to finish in time to submit to that Phillip Seymour Hoffman contest. So don’t assume your kid will stop using his/her brain just because he/she doesn’t end up at Yale or similar.
My D did not apply to U of Mich and the like - while she is a good student, w/ good test scores and gpa, they are just not in that upper echelon category. So she applied to a TON of mid-range schools w/ BFA programs (including our great state schools - IU & Ball State) … the amount of $$ in merit aid she’s been receiving from private colleges makes attending those schools more affordable that our state schools. (Which is actually the case w/ her older sister attending Vanderbilt - our out of pocket is less at Vandy than it would have been w/ IU’s biggest merit scholarship.)
Going into this, we knew being accepted into a decent BFA program was going to be HARDER than my older D being accepted to Vandy (which has an acceptance rate of 12% or so). People talk about the Ivies & the Top 20 being “lottery schools” … they ain’t got nothin’ on a good MT BFA program! 
I’ll stop blathering on … academics are not, did not, and do not play a factor into where she applied or where she will end up going.
I agree. It seems like a brutal process and the audition season is in February, no less.
This is an old article about it, but still accurate, I think:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/education/edlife/theater.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
@arwarw, I love that article and included a printout of it in a folder of arts admissions materials I assembled for a recent college night at our school. It’s one of the few things I’ve read that really reflects the thought process from both parent and student points of view, and in a way that my school’s families can understand.
@igitur - One of the first common pieces of advice that D threw out the window when creating her school list was “first decide if you want a Conservatory, BFA or a BA”. She considered that advice, but quickly realized that following it made zero sense for her as the schools of interest to her spanned all categories, and the two most similar programs (even according to both department chairs) were Northwestern and UMich, a BA and a BFA.
I’ve also seen that many 17-year-olds will radically revise their thinking about what they want during the 8 months that can be between applying and accepting offers, so I think it’s a good idea to include a wide variety of options on your list.