<p>I would have been happy if my kid(s) had chosen a state u. I think they are fun and agree that a great education can be had. I do not think it would have been right for either of my kids, though. I would have proudly worn the sweatshirt, though. I am a big fan of my new home state's sports teams (even though D goes to grad school at a SEC rival private, which I also support).</p>
<p>If we want to go back to preschool thru HS, D. is coming from tiny very expensive private elementary (4 kids in her 8th grade) and even much more expensive and small private HS (33 kids in her graduating class) where some kids travel from another state as far as hour away. She also graduated at the top of her class. Actually, she "threatens" us that sometime a "B" will happen to her. So far, this event has been avoided.</p>
<p>OK... I've posted this before, but it bears repeating.</p>
<p>I've got a kid who graduated from a CSU.</p>
<p>I've got another kid at an Ivy-affiliate. </p>
<p>The elite school is better -- the classes are more challenging, the profs more accomplished, and the school has more resources. It is worth paying more. </p>
<p>But it is NOT worth 10 times more, which would be the differential in cost if I had been paying full tuition at both. As it happens, my son paid his own way for the last 2 years at the CSU, and he ended up with an amazing, prestigious internship opportunity that was only available to CSU students and probably is more significant in terms of his education and future career than anything he is likely to have gotten at an elite school -- sometimes there's an advantage to being a top tier student at a third-tier school. </p>
<p>So it really depends on what you can afford. It will probably take me at least half a dozen years after my daughter graduates to pay off all the debt I am taking on for her, and if she pursues her plans for grad school, then it will take her many years to pay off her own debt. My son has only minimal debt. Because of this, my son has a lot of freedom and flexibility in terms of employment -- he has the luxury of being able to turn down jobs while waiting for something better. </p>
<p>My daughter will face a lot more financial pressure when she gets out of school, and this may have an impact on life decisions such as when to start a family, etc. She isn't thinking about that right now.... but she's 20. She might feel differently if she is still paying off loans when she is 30.</p>
<p>So try to keep a level head about all of this. Recognize that while one college may be objectively better than another, you still have to apply a cost/benefit analysis and look at your own finances-- and the qualitative difference in colleges is not always in line with the cost differential. Keep in mind that money can also be used to pay for opportunities outside and beyond what the school offers -- such as a study abroad opportunity or a higher quality grad school down the line, or the ability to afford to take an unpaid internship that offers good career and networking opportunities.</p>
<p>Interesting, calmom & others who posted. There are so many variables at play. One I think is the student's major--if they are going to med school or other grad program, I can definitely see the advantage to going to a less-financially-taxing school. And--although it's not politically correct---as a woman, I can see the point about starting a family and how finances/debt could impact that. </p>
<p>My HS senior son is planning to work indefinitely (hopefully) -- doesn't plan to stay at home w/kids in his future (although you never know). He's also not planning on grad school (& in his major, you can get a very nice starting salary after 4 years -- hoping this continues). Those factors might argue for risking a more expensive school (quicker payoff of debt w/higher starting salary, etc.) but, as shown by the nuanced analysis on this thread, there are so many considerations...</p>
<p>"One of my kids happens to be somewhat of an elitist snob, and he requires a very high level of intellectual and social stimulation."</p>
<p>My oldest son is a high school sophomore, and he's starting to look at what kinds of schools he might want to apply to. He is very smart and would probably fit in well at a demanding school with a high level of academics, but the above statement makes me sort of hope he gets a good scholarship to our state's flagship U and decides to take that. I wonder how many other kids at the elite schools claim to be "elitist snobs"?</p>
<p>calmom,
Was your comparison in regard to Honors college at state U vs. Ivy?<br>
D's Honors classes are very small, sometime 15 kids. Also, classes are much more challenging than D expected, she would not want them to be any harder. In fact, good number of kids swithced to different major after not being able to handle freshman honors Bio class - these were very high caliber students (Honors cut off - top 2%, ACT=32). How harder and smaller it can go?</p>
<p>I agree with Miamidap that an honors college adds another dimension to consider. My s usually takes two or three honors courses each semester and they're small and challenging. He is currently struggling with one of them...and telling me that he thinks the kids in this class seem SO much smarter than him. This is not what I would have predicted...and I'm a little worried about his confidence...but overall, I think it's probably a good thing.
For all those who say, "I don't think my s or d would do well at a State U.". Well, first of all, I'm not sure how you can say that given that they didn't choose that path. And I also wonder if you are encouraging that type of thinking. Yes, even those of you who attended a state U. There seems to be a strong belief that you can buy a better education at a private...and everyone always wants to do the best for their children. I just don't think it's that black and white. Especially with quality state schools that offer opportunities for top kids...at a terrific price that allows for investment in future education like grad school.<br>
We all go into this process with bias. And that bias impact our kids decisions...for sure.</p>
<p>
[quote]
For all those who say, "I don't think my s or d would do well at a State U.". Well, first of all, I'm not sure how you can say that given that they didn't choose that path.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, some of us have bases for comparison.</p>
<p>My son went to State U. He liked it and did well there. It was a good choice for him. When he was a senior in high school, several of his friends encouraged him to apply to a certain selective private university on the grounds that it had an excellent program in his intended major and that he had a realistic chance of admission, despite borderline credentials, because he was a legacy. He refused to apply to that university based on its reputation for high-level academic pressure and competitiveness. State U was his first choice, and he accepted its offer of admission the moment it arrived.</p>
<p>His younger sister, who has a very different personality and better academic credentials than her brother, is now a sophomore at the very same private university that her brother refused to apply to. It is indeed high-pressure and competitive, which suits her just fine. She likes the private university very much and is doing well. She has many friends at State U and is very familiar with the place from both her friends' experience and her brother's. She would have been miserable at State U. No question about it.</p>
<p>Marian...you hit the nail on the head. To me, it isn't about which is a "better" education as both schools provide a great education. It is way more about which is the best fit for the kid. I think our state U is great. It just wasn't the best fit for either of my kids. But I believe you can get a wonderful education there.</p>
<p>Calmom, to be fair, there are many state schools that are perceived to be better than the CSU where your son graduated.</p>
<p>There are also plenty of private schools that don't measure up to your daughter's private school.</p>
<p>In the end, it's about the student.</p>
<p>Your son went to a very good private school, but he wasn't ready to take advantage of that school. He goes to a CSU, he is more mature, and he makes the most of his opportunity. No?</p>
<p>Is your son now less educated or intelligent because of the path he took?</p>
<p>"She would have been miserable at State U. No question about it."
I guess I still don't get it. She visited and has many friends but never WENT TO SCHOOL there. Was there an honors college option? Is it really that BAD?
Hey, back when I went to college, my choice was State U A or State U B. I picked A and did fine. And we put state U out as a reasonable option (but not the only option) for my son. Actually I don't think I would tolerate it too well if he said he was too smart or too fussy to even consider it. There are plenty of challenging opportunities there.<br>
Yes, I do understand that the stereotypical State U environment might not be a good fit for some. But I think we are limiting our options and blind to opportunities if we don't even consider the option. The kid across the street hates football and crowds, loves science, and is a passionate learner. And, surprise, he's happy at our State U. He found his social niche and also teamed up with a prof and is doing research in his second year. It was NOT his first choice but he went in with an open mind. And he likes it. Wow.<br>
Really, it's not that bad...</p>
<p>I don't know too many people that are too smart for a good state school. </p>
<p>If those people are, they are too smart for a good private school too. :)</p>
<p>There seems to be this attitude that a person learns best surrounded only by similarly smart people or even smarter people. (I don't know why those smarter people would want that person in the classroom. :)) </p>
<p>Anyway, I work with somebody who is a high school dropout. He is very bright. I learn new things from him all the time. About technology, about life.</p>
<p>If I worked with somebody who was college educated, I'm sure I would learn from that person too. Not necessarily more. Just different stuff.</p>
<p>I've yet to work with anybody who knows everything, even the guys from MIT and Yale :)</p>
<p>Purple- There are plenty of elitist snobs even at state schools- I assure you. Perhaps I am the only parent of a somewhat arrogant 22 year old that posts here. My kid has many fine qualities, but he is one of the few offspring of CC posters who isn't perfect.</p>
<p>In fact, many of the tales I hear of "elitist snobs" are regarding frat/sorority types at state schools. And they tend to not be of the intellectual variety. Every school has a wide variety of students and personality types.</p>
<p>Toneranger- Overall, yes, I do think you can buy a better education at a private. Perhaps not enough of one to be worth it to some people, but to my family it was worth it. And, yes, I do think my kid is doing better at this school than if he had attended a state u. There are many reasons for this. One school I refused to pay for was NYU. NOT because I don't think it is an excellent school, but because I know my kid and I know he could not stay focused going to school in NYC. PLUS- I knew he would be too expensive to maintain there. Just OUR decision for OUR kid. No need for anyone to be defensive. My niece is at Penn State in engineering. She is doing fine and having a ball. My sister is not very impressed with the whole deal- it is a massive hassle to do anything or contact anyone. Just another opinion.</p>
<p>Again, this is about personal choice and there is not a "right" or "wrong" answer. The only thing is that for those attending PHYSM, they could always say "I could have gone to State U id I wanted to". But only few in State U could say the same about PHYSM. </p>
<p>To us, those who get top $$ to attend any U are the best deals. I personally could not imagine paying full COA for any school.</p>
<p>To add to my D.'s happiness witrh her state school, her HS classmate who went to private school that my D also was accepted, just trnsferred to D's state school. She did not do it because of my D, she did not even know that she was there already. They are the same major and taking one class together. The girsl is very happy with her decision to transfer. Again, she is an excellent student with a lot of various interests like sports.. etc. Here is a real life comparison by the same student who actually spent whole year at private school and now is very happy at state school.</p>
<p>Miamidap, based on your promotion of the school, I did some research about it. We actually visited that school at least once when DD went for some piano thing. </p>
<p>The Harrison scholarship looks very attractive , it is one of the few full rides that seems to purely based on stats - 2% and 34 ACT. Also, is anyone who meets the 3% and 32 ACT automatically gets in honor?</p>
<p>Speaking from personal experience, my kids attended a rural public school that I venture to say that many CC parents here would not be into sending their kids to. For example, only 2/3's of those who attend go onto college. When my kids attended, they had many Honors classes (quite challenging in fact) but very few AP designated classes. My kids got a good education and the kids in the top level classes were a very bright bunch. That could not be said for the entire school but they also benefited from going to school with a diverse socio-economic bunch of kids. It wasn't so great in middle school as there was not tracking. In elem. it was actually quite wonderful as our elem school is great and has multi age classes and lets kids work at their individual levels. But I have read many on CC who have sent their kids to private prep schools for HS or live in communities where "the schools are good" and they attend very competitive high schools. My kids did not. They are not worse off for having done so and in fact, I think in some ways, they were better off by going to these rural public schools. So, we are not elitist when it comes to schools by far. Our kids did just fine going to these public schools and got into the colleges of their choice and exceled at these colleges winning top awards there and leadership positions and getting very good grades. So, I'll be the last person to poo poo public schools! My kids have been well educated just fine. </p>
<p>I don't think private colleges are better than public. I just know that our public U (a great U) was not the best fit for what my kids needed and craved. It is not like they can only go to college with kids just like themselves. In fact, one thing that is BETTER at their private schools is the rich DIVERSITY that they could NOT have had at our public U. WAY WAY WAY more diverse. This contributes to their learning environment. But they also needed to be with kids who had similar motivations, talent and drive and they have thrived being with kids, who while diverse, share this level both inside and outside the classroom. For my D in the arts, there is no way she'd have come into contact with the level of talent of her classmates, or the faculty, the training, or opportunities she is having at Tisch with what she would have had at UVM or Johnson State College. For my D who attended Brown, the kind of student as a WHOLE who attended her school was different than the kind from her own high school who go to UVM. There is overlap but the atmosphere is decidedly quite different. Part of her learning in college was clearly enhanced by the types of kids she mixed with and their experiences. Just last night, she traveled back to her college to meet up with a fellow graduate who has traveled the world and who did extensive work to raise funds to build schools in Laos. My D is planning to take a trip to Cambodia and Laos over her winter break and I can tell you that the kid she knows from Brown is NOTHING like the kids she went to HS with and just this ONE example (and there are so many more) of the contacts she has made, has enhanced her experiences. Now, at MIT, she is being PUSHED very very very hard and her fellow classmates are ALL older than herself, many quite experienced in the field already, and many from foreign countries. It has indeed impacted her experience and it is nothing like if she were in grad school locally. She'd be less stressed, for sure, but she would not have it any other way. She craves the challenge, the experiences, the peers even if it can get insane at times. My kids enjoy their local friends from home but they differ GREATLY from the peers they have come in contact with at college and in grad school. Both sets are great kids. My kids have a bond with the local kids due to background. But their intellectual bond with their peers at school is different. Both have value.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't know too many people that are too smart for a good state school.</p>
<p>If those people are, they are too smart for a good private school too.</p>
<p>There seems to be this attitude that a person learns best surrounded only by similarly smart people or even smarter people. (I don't know why those smarter people would want that person in the classroom. )
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Geesh. Surely the poster of this is kidding. No? I guess that poster thinks he is smarter than the hosts of researchers who have found that peer factors do matter, and that some kids do better when they are surrounded by, gasp, only by similarly smart people or even smarter people.</p>
<p>Of course, this poster painted things in rather sad black and white terms, and left factors out like motivation and such. </p>
<p>The good thing is that we parents and our kids have choices. It would be sad if those of us who valued intellectual capital were forced to send our kids to schools with kids whose parents don't value it. :) </p>
<p>All kidding aside, I would hope by now that some posters might recognize the individuality of all these decisions. It might be difficult to decide between UNC with a Morehead scholarship versus Princeton, but not many kids fall into this category. It might be easier to decide between U. Mass and Harvard, say for a middle class family making $120k per year, where Harvard would be cheaper. Again not many kids would have the choice of Harvard. It might be tougher to decide between U. Conn and BU, but we did not have to make that decision.</p>
<p>MOW - well I agree that you can buy a better private education at SOME private schools. Really, if my son was a science guy and he got into MIT, I would figure out how to make that happen. I know I would.
That said, I agree that I may be a bit defensive on the topic of state schools. And it's largely based on where I live. Lots of folks around here automatically dismiss the option and then shell out huge bucks for places like Syracuse U or Boston U or GW. Nothing against those places but whey not at least CONSIDER the much cheaper state school option? Especially if money is not unlimited. Are the opportunities and social environment really THAT different? So different that the parents and students don't even make a visit?<br>
You see, based on my background, I think that's really spoiling your kids. Just me though. I DO agree that everyone makes their own choices.</p>