<p>So the reason my rank is so poor is because of my dismal freshmen year. My gpa is a 3.76. I went from the top 35% freshman year, to the top 14 by junior year. Which is a pretty good gain of almost a 125 people. Went from a 3.0 freshman year to a flat 4.0 by junior year.</p>
<p>However, my class size is huge. 826.
My rank is currently 120/826. I'm not even in the top 100. </p>
<p>I was thinking about applying to Cornell, northwestern, or Carnegie Mellon ED, but my counselor told me it was a total waste of time and I wouldn't get in. </p>
<p>Very few people from my school go to top schools or even apply there, and most of the top students choose to go to Texas schools. ( our valedictorian is going to UT austin, as is everyone in the top 20 ) We have like one person who was ranked 56 and one 32 who are going to Ivies ( Cornell and Dartmouth ). We sent one rice, rank 22. We sent one CMU student this year but he was in the top 10%. </p>
<p>Supposedly no one not in the top 10% of our school has ever gotten in to a top 20 in a long time. We have plenty of good school acceptances - NYU, Emory, Lehigh, Ect, but rarely tippy-top schools for the non top 10%. A solid 90% of my school attends some sort of state school ( 80 % being Texas ). We have someone in the top 20% get into northwestern! but that was for its music school, and he was extremely musically talented. Not a lot of people in my school really care about top schools, and for most ut austin and A&M are their dream schools ( yes even the top students ). </p>
<p>Our average test scores is an 1830 on the sat and a 28 on the ACT. </p>
<p>I'm starting to think I am severely under qualified for any chance at top schools with the past track record . My act is only marginally above the average ( 33 cumulative ). My ecs are pretty good but are very few in number. I'm not in NHS like a lot of people in my school. I wish I tried harder in school, but nothing can make up for my intellectual incompetence. My counselor has been at my school for a long time and seems to know a lot..</p>
<p>What do you think? How much will my rank screw me? Saving the application money sounds tempting.</p>
<p>Considering the quality of Texas public universities for the Top 7% and the price you get to pay if in-state, it’s not surprising that most would take that route. It’s actually the smart move, unless someone is throwing a lot of money their way.</p>
<p>In your situation, I wouldn’t look at class rank, as that is generally overrated. If your GPA is an unweighted 3.75 with a rising trend and you have an ACT of 33, you certainly have a shot at top 20s is you course schedule is rigorous enough, which it should be. Maybe the Top 5 are out of reach, but 6-20 plus the LACs should all be something to look at.Even national universities down to 40 are going to be really high quality, some with merit that will undoubtedly be interested in you.</p>
<p>Seems to me your GCs advice is a little off. With the Texas 7% rule and you being at a high performing HS, it would seem to be his job to find good schools for those who don’t qualify for the automatic in-state admission but are still great students by any measure. (That would be you.) You need a GC with a different attitude - he’s just being lazy.</p>
<p>Thanks for the help!
Price really isn’t THAT huge of an issue, as long as the yearly cost is under 30k, we’re good. That’s about the same price as as UT anyways. We put all of the schools I am considering ( including northeastern, northwestern, cornell, Ect ) into a net price/financial aid calculator, and it seems that we’ll generally be able to afford them if they are similar to the FA as shown in the calculator. CMU might be a bit risky as I heard their FA can be quite unstable and unpredictable, but it shouldn’t be that big of an issue. </p>
<p>Ut is definitely not a safety, and I’ll be fortunate to get in. I have Baylor and Purdue as a safety. Northeastern being a match. </p>
<p>@MrMom62 </p>
<p>Thanks for the help and encouragement~~.
I just have one question though, how is rank generally overrated? I thought colleges put a huge priority on rank, am I wrong? Of course, if rank really is generally not that important, than it’s great news for me :). </p>
<p>My GC isn’t too terrible, he suggested me for northeastern, although I suppose he was probably too harsh.
I think I’ll apply to northwestern, cornell, and CMU, and then look at some LACs. </p>
<p>@SnickersU A lot of high schools don’t rank. In addition, every school uses a different system to calculate rank, eg UW vs W gpa. In addition, those who pursue valuable classes for their passions (which colleges love), such as four years of performing or visual arts, may be ranked lower due to these not being honors classes. A lot of colleges don’t really care about rank because of this. Yes, they compare you to your classmates, but they use their own standards. They’ll calculate their own weighted gpa and make sure to weigh all things equally. Your UW gpa and course rigor is way more important than class rank.</p>
<p>Thanks! That’s great to know!
However, I heard that some schools have a “cut-off” for rank in order to increase their national rankings. For example, 96% of Penn’s class is in the top 10%. Brown only accepted 48 people last year not in the top 10%. While I do think I am a strong student, I am definitely not phenomenal or athletic enough to fit in such a small gap. ( add that with being asian and it’s a mess haha ). So I’m definitely not applying to brown and penn, or any school has over a 90% of people in the top 10%. Ucla and berkeley both have 98%+ in the top 10%, so I’m definitely not applying there. </p>
<p>Northwestern is slightly more lenient in rank, where 85% of the students are in the top 10%. But that makes me suspicious of the music students that deflate it… Cornell has 88%'of students in the top 10%. CMU seems to be the most lenient, and I’m definitely applying there since they don’t even require rank ( hallelujah! ). But been there, coincidentally, 75% of students are in the top 10%.</p>
<p>Am I seriously misguided? I always assumed rank was important because of these percentages. Is correlation not causation? Is this all just coincidence because people generally in the upper rankings tend to be stronger students In general? Is there not a cutoff at all? </p>
<p>Yeah, I don’t think there truly is a cut-off. I think it is more just upper rankings = stronger students. Yes, for the ivies, that may be true, but a lot of other schools don’t follow that. It also depends how competitive your high school is. My school doesn’t rank, but I believe my unweighted was somewhere around 3.6 (I think?), and according to my counselor I am middle of the pack of my class (according to gpa/scores - counselors can still tell you where you are in relation to others even if your school doesn’t rank). There are lots of students that had slightly higher gpas than me that got in to some pretty stellar schools.</p>
<p>Class rank is generally not important in that they probably look at it after they’ve looked at your transcript, not as a filter to eliminate you. One of the top public HS in the country is Stuyvesant, where just getting in is tougher than getting in practically any Ivy. Do you really think they eliminate kids from that school over not being top 10%? No, they look at the transcript and rate accordingly. Similarly, if you go to one of the worst HS in the country, even being #1 will get you little if your transcript is full of remedial courses and an ACT of 23.</p>
<p>If you go to a top HS, one ranked nationally by any of the ranking services like Newsweek or US News, colleges know the school. They will know the caliber of the students and the classes. Being top 20% from a school like that is certainly regarded as more impressive than top 1% from a failing school, because they look at the whole set of classes, grades , and test scores, not just a single number that means little.</p>
<p>Your GC recommended Northeastern, which is #49. It’s a great school, and you should definitely start looking there. CMU, USC, Tufts, all great schools that you should take a look at. You’ve got a lot of options - be reasonable in what you qualify for, but don’t take yourself out of the running when you’ve got a reasonable shot. With a 3.76 and a 33, there isn’t much you should automatically eliminate yourself from, maybe just a handful of schools, and with the right ECs, maybe not even those.</p>
<p>@SnickersU, my S is the valedictorian of a 6A Texas public school. He has all 5s on his APs so far, and he took the heaviest academic load of any student at his high school. He is also a 4-year varsity athlete, regional/state UIL academic team for three years, multiple honor societies, 1510/2230 on his only sitting of the SAT, PSAT commended student, etc.</p>
<p>His number 1 college choice was Cockrell Honors at UT. He certainly didn’t settle. He is going to one of the top engineering programs in the country. Tuition is waived for valedictorians attending public schools in Texas. So for the cost of room/board and books, he gets to be part of an elite honors program with a huge alumni network and national name recognition. And he gets to live in Austin.</p>
<p>If you don’t like UT or any other in-state option, that is fine. But don’t under-estimate strong public universities. Kids like my S are not settling, they are taking advantage of a wonderful opportunity to pursue a first class education in an amazing city. </p>
<p>As @MrMom62 says, course rigor is important. Colleges are less than impressed with a top ranking that was achieved by avoiding challenging classes. An upward trend with increasing rigor is going to make you look good to a lot of adcoms, and they won’t care as much about freshman grades as what you’ve done since then. </p>
<p>And sometimes GCs get burned out over time. Personally I think you’re better off with one who dampers expectations rather than overpromises. Some kids are thrilled when their discouraging counselor’s predictions are proven wrong! But I’ve also known of kids crushed with disappointment when the fairy godmother counselor doesn’t deliver (and then they have to scramble to find alternatives). </p>
<p>So do y’all think it’s worth applying of have a fair/possible chance at Cornell and northwestern? I’d probably apply ED to northwestern. </p>
<p>@Texasmomof3
I definitely respect people who go to UT and the school in general. And I would be extremely happy to go there. I’m just not too huge of a fan of the state of Texas in general, but Ut-A is a phenomenal school and I would be glad to go there.</p>
<p>@MrMom62
I don’t think my school is that phenomenal. It’s generally pretty wealthy and is considered a very good school locally, but it can’t really be compared to a school like stuy. It’s ranked in the 80s in Texas, and in the upper 700s in the U.S, which isn’t extremely impressive compared to stuy. </p>
<p>Although it’s average test scores are quite decent, but that’s typical of a privileged, predominately white school.</p>
<p>There are very few schools, white or not, that average 28 on the ACT. I’ve seen average, and it’s shocking how low average can be. Besides, YOU are applying to schools, not your entire school. Northwestern (or even Cornell) is probably reasonable for ED. No guarantee, but the 33 is pretty impressive. A lot will depend on which courses you took, your ECs, and your essays. The 33 gets them to take a closer look.</p>
My kids graduated from Stuyvesant High School and maybe things have changed, but back then if a student did not have a 94 GPA (out of 100) and was not in the top 10% of their class, the college office would strongly advise students that’s it’s a waste of their time and money to apply to tippy-top schools, as their application would get buried from in-school competition. In fact, when my kids were applying to college, I can remember seeing in-house stats that were difficult to be ignored: HYPSM had not taken one kid from Stuyvesant with below a 94 in the last 11 years, regardless of SAT/ACT score or EC’s – but kids (and their parents) ignored the advice and applied anyway, only to be disappointed when they were denied. So, my advice is to always listen to your GC! They do this every year and understand your chances at various schools better than anyone on CC.</p>
That’s very true, but even bad GC’s must provide a student’s rating to colleges via the SSR – and if a GC is advising an applicant to not apply to a specific school because they don’t think the student will get in, the GC is probably tipping their hand and letting the student know they won’t be getting as good a rating as other top students at the school.</p>
<p>I suppose you’re right. I guess this is kind of good news since I don’t have to work as hard anymore. Northeastern and ut seem like solid schools that aren’t ridiculously difficult to get in. I won’t have to stress about applying to top schools. Hng, if only I put in some effort freshman year. Oh well.</p>