How Did you like Harvard?

Colleges & Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

<p>I am graduating this year (2009) and am in depths of the college process. </p>

<p>Even though I have a big background in investing, I think I will probably forgo econ and pursue a combination of Physics/Computer Science as a major (or concentration) and go into defense with a possibility of starting a quant if i go broke :)</p>

<p>Anyway, I have poured literally hours of my summer whittling down my college choices to three: Harvard, Stanford, and Yale (alphabetical).</p>

<p>I have heard a LOT of bad things from alumni/current students at Harvard, mixed reviews from alumni at Stanford (but positive reviews from current students), and nothing bad at all from Yalies. Both alumni and current students at Yale are unwavering in how much they loved it. I read an article from the Crimson that it has become part of the culture to complain at Harvard, which both bothers me and reminds me of my high school.</p>

<p>I am hoping to hear from people who both loved and hated Harvard (and reasons why), as well as addressing my other issues.</p>

<p>Please respond, but do not feel that you need to address every point.</p>

<p>Right now, I have no overall rankings. My sub rankings differ according to the area, but are not listed in order of importance.</p>

<p>Science: 1) Stanford; 2) Harvard; 3) Yale
Given my interests, Stanford is clearly the best equipped with SLAC (Stanford linear accelerator that they operate for the us department of energy) and the top CS department. My fear is that I will not be able to be a part of SLAC as an undergrad, as it is already limited to summer internships. I honestly don’t know much about harvard’s physics program or if they even have a linear accelerator that accelerates things other than protons. I know yale has two small (40 ft) proton accelerators dedicated to undergrad use. I was very impressed with research opportunities presented to yale undergrads, but I still feel that they do not have the best science department. I know they are devoting 1 billion dollars to science and have seen the construction, but am not sure what the final outcome will be.</p>

<p>Happiness: 1)Yale; 2) Stanford; 3) Harvard
As stated above, this is the impression that I got from the students at the schools. I would like to hear why Harvard is a great place to be and the overall community at the school.</p>

<p>Undergrad Focus: 1) Yale; I cannot truly distinguish Harvard against Stanford
I was speaking with one Harvard undergrad and grad Alumna, who happened to formerly serve on the board and is a family friend, on my interest in Harvard. She said that they treated undergrads like crap. She left it at that. I was speaking to my teacher who went to Harvard. He absolutely loved it and is trying to get me to go there. She went pre-med, he went history. Curiously enough, they are in the same graduating class.</p>

<p>This maybe unjustified, but I also am under the impression that most classes at Harvard are officially headed by a professor, but every class is further broken into sections with TFs where all the true teaching and learning is actually done. I got this similar impression from Stanford students, though they tended to be less negative on it.</p>

<p>I have been through all three courses catalogs and statistics pretty thoroughly, and while they all roughly have the same average size classes (although Harvard’s mode class is impressively 12), I noticed that Yale has very few very large classes (150+), which is not true of Stanford and Harvard.</p>

<p>Finally, this last one seemed to be a more overall Harvard problem than a specific Harvard undergrad problem. Harvard administration does not care. They never get to know you as a person. The reason I refused to even consider MIT is the total lack of care of the administration to their students. I read a horrifying story about a girl who cracked under the pressure of the MIT workload, was not given support by her professors/administration, and committed suicide. Whether still true or not, MIT had the highest suicide rate in the country for a long stretch. While I am clearly not in that boat and neither is Harvard, it revealed a lot about MIT to me. What I really want to know is Harvard's responsiveness to student issues.</p>

<p>Academic Schedule: 1)Yale; 2)Harvard; 3)Stanford
I don’t like how Harvard has winter exams after Christmas break, I feel it won’t ever provide a break as I would be tempted (and pressured by parents) to study during winter break, even though they have the reading week before exams. I am also a little disappointed by Harvard’s 2 day Thanksgiving break.
However, this might be a thing of the past. for 08-09, harvard is doing this, but for 09-10 (which would be my freshman year), they are having exams before winter break. Does anyone know if this is set to be permanent?</p>

<p>I don’t like Stanford’s quarter system. Stanford also only provides 1 day off before exams.</p>

<p>I feel that Yale does a really good job of academic planning. They give you 8 days before exams, and afterward you have winter break.</p>

<p>How did/do you feel about Harvard's academic schedule. My high school has exams after christmas and I feel I never get a break until after exams.</p>

<p>Housing: 1a)Yale 1b)Harvard;3)Stanford
The only reason yale is slightly ahead is the consistency in the niceness of yale housing. I have seen Harvard dorms ranking from simply amazing to ones with concrete walls. I love the residential system at both Harvard and yale. Though they are both marked 1, I gave yale a leg up because yalies seem to be more loyal to their house than Harvard students are, and i really like that sense of community. Is this true?
On a 100 pt scale, I would say the difference between Yale and Harvard is 1/2 of a point. BTW, I love the idea of secret societies at Yale and Harvard.
Stanford’s housing system seems unorganized and I like the idea of a microcosm of the university where you can get to know people outside of your field/concentration. I also really dislike frats and ethnic housing.</p>

<p>Location: 1)Harvard 2a)Yale 2b) Stanford
I loved cambridge and palo alto. I did not like new haven. However being from the east coast, i have some reservations about going west. Cambridge was very enjoyable and close to boston.</p>

<p>So that is the end of my list. If you made it through, congratulations. </p>

<p>The reason I was so hard on Harvard was that I wanted to be specific in my concerns, and listing out the things I liked about Harvard was not fitting with the post. I clearly said a lot of great things about Yale, but used those points mostly to point out my some of my issues with Harvard.</p>

2

<p>You should probably spend more time working on applications at this point than wondering which one is better.</p>

<p>I got into all three. Yale was immediately off since I’m a math/science guy, although I did get a call from a math professor trying to convince me to go. I did visit yale on my way to CPW at MIT, the campus was nice. That one tower looks a lot better in photographs than it does in real life. I also visited both Harvard and Stanford. The general view is that Stanford is stronger in math/science/engineering, which I agree with, but Harvard isn’t bad either. The cross-registration policy with MIT is a huge plus. Palo Alto’s weather is probably 10x better than Cambridge’s, but it’s only four years of your life, not something impossible to deal with. I’ve also heard that the weather at Stanford is so nice that it distracts from your studies, don’t know how true it is. And finally, Harvard’s fin aid was a lot better than Stanford’s. The latter was probably the most important factor.</p>

3

<p>Harvard has top notch physics and mathematics programs. Freshman seminars this semester (12 students each) are being taught by Noam Elkies, Lisa Randall, and Roy Glauber ( Nobel Prize for Physics). I also had no problem finding work for the coming school year through e-mailing professors. Two seemed very excited to have me work in their physics labs.</p>

4

<p>Unhappy undergrads come from expecting the world from a school. Personally, as long as I have my daily dose of basketball and chem it doesn’t matter where I am(although Harvard’s chem dept is golden, so actually it does make a difference for me rofl). Happiness is what you make of it…that’s not the fault of the institution. Unless, if I understand your pattern correctly, you’re saying science-oriented schools = unhappy student bodies. If you really think that then get off the internet.</p>

<p>But as for the whole “XX doesn’t care about its undergrads” argument…I’ve always felt: well, so what? You have to earn your way to the top, and the red carpet treatment at “undergrad-focused” schools deludes one from the realities imho. And obviously there are some undergrads who everyone cares about, particularly those who are essentially grad students anyway (quite a few names come to mind) in terms of their courseload/research work.</p>

<p>My advice: worry about getting in first.</p>

5

<p>Is it possible that the #1 ranked undergraduate institution in the country does not care about its undergrads??? Funny.</p>

6

<p>I know this is off-topic, but I can’t help myself.

First, that happened in 2001, so it’s hardly a current example of MIT student life. Second, the girl in question had first attempted suicide as a senior in high school when she had gotten salutatorian instead of valedictorian – it was hardly the MIT workload or her professors who caused her to have suicidal thoughts.</p>

<p>During the 90s, yes, MIT had a string of suicides (though whether its suicide rate was truly higher than average, given its demographics, is debatable). There have been a lot of changes to the student mental health system, and there hasn’t been an undergraduate suicide since 2002 (or perhaps 2001? it was before I arrived in fall 2002).</p>

<p>It’s fine if you don’t want to apply to MIT, but I want to correct rumor and hearsay – the whole “MIT suicide” meme is so widespread on the internet, and it’s really not accurate.</p>

7

<p>That Crimson article about unhappiness is really starting to irk me. If anyone knows the Crimson magazine board (who authored the article)…those guys seriously love to complain. About anything and everything. They’re sarcastic and snippy. You can’t base your judgment on Harvard from one stupid article from 2003 that truly does not reflect the student body. A lot of the hype surrounding this theory of Harvard unhappiness seems to me like people are trying to make Harvard what they THINK it must be–a pressure-cooker of intense proportions where everyone thinks only of academic work and their own miserableness. The truth is so far from that. Of course there are unhappy people at Harvard–duh, there are unhappy people everywhere. Of course there are people with impossible expectations–when you go to the #1 university in pretty much the world, you’re going to have lots of unrealistic expectations. That doesn’t mean you can’t be happy at Harvard. I (and everyone I know, for that matter) am most definitely happy and right now counting down the days until we get to go back. Of course Harvard cares about its undergraduates–everyone loves to say they don’t, but I have absolutely no complaints. The new advising system gives you multiple options of people to talk to, not to mention you can take the initiative to talk to pretty much anyone who isn’t assigned to you as your specific advisor. A lot of happiness at Harvard is about ambition–whether you’re the type of person who will seek out what you want to do and what you need. Harvard doesn’t spoon-feed you. The problem is when people who need that extra push or spoon-feeding attend Harvard, they tend to be unhappy since they are unable to get what they want out of it. I think Harvard isn’t right for everybody, but if you can be the person who will take initiative, you’ll be happy and satisfied with your experience. How can you say Harvard doesn’t care!? That is just an unfounded generalization. My impression is that Harvard cares a great deal. One of my roommates was struggling in a class–our dean sent her a letter and just talked with her and discussed tutoring options and how she was adjusting to school, without my roommate even requesting a meeting. I like this article from the Crimson regarding happiness: [The</a> Harvard Crimson :: Magazine :: Dropping the H-Bomb](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article.aspx?ref=505945]The”>http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/article.aspx?ref=505945)</p>

<p>The other annoying thing is when people claim Harvard classes aren’t taught by professors. Of course they are! Some of the most prominent, knowledgable professors in the world, in fact. Yes, our larger lecture classes break down into sections led by TFs (teaching fellows, which are grad students)…but that happens at pretty much every other university across the country. At Penn, they call them recitations and they’re taught by TAs (teaching assistants, same deal). At Columbia, some TAs are even current undergrad students. I actually loved my sections and my TFs so far–one of my TFs even became a professor and got his doctorate while he was teaching me. So just because you have a “grad student” doesn’t mean you’re at an educational disadvantage. I just spent a semester in very close proximity with a guy who will now be a professor this year, which is pretty cool. This only applies to big lectures of course…there are tons and tons of classes out there with extremely small sizes.</p>

<p>As for the academic schedule, I actually like our current one-it has its advantages. No one studies during Xmas break, you don’t need to since you get an extended reading period once you’re back. But I’m fine with the change, which is permanent and will go into effect your first year. You’ll still get a nice reading period, same as Yale.</p>

<p>Housing at Harvard is regarded as the finest in the country, hands down. My freshman year room was incredible, especially compared to my friends’ rooms from other schools across the country, and the same goes for rooming in my house. I can’t account for Stanford housing, but I’ve seen Yale’s freshman rooms–they’re tiny and cramped based on the ones I’ve been in, certainly not any superior to Harvard’s. As for the concrete walls you mention, have you ever seen Morse and Ezra Stiles at Yale? Pretty ugly. I can’t say that Yalies feel more house pride–based on the barrage of information and mail and excitement I’ve received since joining my house, Harvardians love theirs just as much. It’s your true community and home and one of the things you identify with most. I met a Harvard alum from like 30 years ago and one of the first things he said about himself was his house and how much he loved it. If you want the community feel, Harvard’s houses will give that to you, no question. I actually like our housing system better because you’re not placed with your house as a freshman (whereas at Yale your freshman dorm corresponds to your house) so that you meet tons of people in your freshman dorm and then the next year, you meet lots of new people in your new house community (while of course being able to live with your friends from your blocking group).</p>

<p>One last thing and then I’m done this exceptionally long post…I know almost nothing about Stanford, but as far as New Haven vs. Cambridge, there’s not even a competition. Cambridge is the most perfect college town–enough right around Harvard’s borders to keep you occupied but then you could also go into Boston if you needed (which most people don’t need to when Cambridge offers so much).</p>

<p>Of course, you don’t need to decide between the three until you actually get accepted, but knowing these differences between the schools and thinking about what you really want helps inform your application process. Hope this helps!</p>

8

<p>^^Do you work for Harvard admissions, harvard 1636?</p>

9

<p>Wow, hear hear harvard1636. I’m printing that post out!</p>

10

<p>Harvard1636, you are my role model for being a Harvard apologist. </p>

<p>I’m going to second Stupidkid’s advice and say you should worry about getting in first. Spending days of your summer contemplating these choices is probably not very constructive.</p>

<p>Nonetheless, here are my own two cents. I think when it comes to math, Harvard beats Stanford and Yale hands down. Their math department boasts the brightest undergrads and young professors in the world. Physics, it is probably a tie between Stanford and Harvard with Yale lagging behind. I wouldn’t worry about finding a research position at SLAC just yet. I am sure you can do it (I asked around when I was admitted), but there are thousands of other equally satisfying and engrossing projects. </p>

<p>If you plan to do physics and computer science and are dead sure, Stanford might give you a leg up since it is located in silicon valley. However, if you are interested in starting a quant fund (which statistically speaking will probably never happen; you’ll probably end up working for one if you are talented enough), Harvard I think would be the better place. It’s placement of peeps into elite Wall Street firms is unmatched, especially in consulting. </p>

<p>Also, I think you might be spending too much time on the nitty gritty things no one cares about, like class sizes. I am sure all three colleges have excellent professor to student ratio and will sure be better than whatever alternatives you have. Your housing objections and conclusion that Harvard has low quality of life for students I would say is partly unfounded. When I visited Harvard in a regular week, the students seemed busy but mostly happy about where they are. </p>

<p>In the end, if you get in to all three, I recommend visiting. Posting on online forums and scourging what data you can find online is only going to be of minimum help when compared to talking to students on campus and exploring for yourself. </p>

<p>As for why everyone at Yale seems perpetually sappy, I have no idea. It seemed a little artificial when I went to visit.</p>

11

<p>OK, I’m a parent, and my personal experience is old and out of date. I never attended Harvard, although I have about 30 relatives and many more friends who did, I was accepted there twice, and I once had a job interview there (not hired). My wife and I did go to Yale, and I went to graduate school at Stanford, while my sister was an undergrad there. Anyway, I have a long association with all three colleges.</p>

<p>It is a colossal waste of time to parse the differences among these three colleges before you have applied to any of them. They – and especially Harvard and Yale – are far more similar to each other than they are different, and what differences there are will matter much more to some people than to others, and in different directions. All three offer more magnificent opportunities, academically and socially, than any one person could take advantage of in 50 undergraduate careers. If you are lucky enough to get to choose among them, it will be a hard decision, but in an important way the easiest hard decision you will ever face, since there’s no real downside to any of them. </p>

<p>It’s like having to choose which flavor of the best ice cream in the world. You could flip a coin and be confident that you would be happy with your choice.</p>

<p>If Harvard seems to have a higher proportion of disgruntled undergraduates – and I think it may, although I want to emphasize “higher”, not “high” – it may be because one of the types of student who would systematically tend to pick Harvard over other choices is a type who wants “the best” of whatever, regardless whether he or she actually likes it. Also, there are some people who have gotten used to being treated like little gods back home. That’s going to lead to some disappointments. Too bad. Finally, I think some people feel oppressed by the sense that if they are at Harvard and they’re not beating the world, there’s something wrong with them.</p>

<p>The vast majority of Harvard students aren’t like that, and have wonderful experiences there. As they should.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, instead of engaging in this pretty useless exercise, why don’t you put some energy into deciding where else to apply. It’s the easiest thing in the world to decide that Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are great places to go to college. Anyone can figure that out. What’s tougher is deciding what’s a great place to go to collge for you where you can actually be confident you will have a chance to enroll.</p>

12

<p>Haha thanks, I just love my school and get really annoyed when people dig into the old stereotypes. Kyzan, do you mean apologist in a negative or positive way?</p>

<p>And nell_ann, I am not an admissions officer.</p>

<p>I do agree that analyzing the minute differences between the three is useless now, but looking at the more general differences can help–I saved myself an application (to Yale) when I really sat down and thought about whether or not I would want to be there before I even applied. In my opinion, why apply if you’re not sure you would want to go to that school, and then possibly take away someone else’s chance of acceptance?</p>

13

<p>

</p>

<p>It’s a good leverage for bargaining fin aid. I find it surprising that no one ever brings this up. If you’re not going to go, you open up a spot for people on the waitlist anyways.</p>

14

<p>In a perfectly good way, Harvard1636 :D</p>

15

<p>Nell_ann was being sarastic…he/she/it is a bad ■■■■■ :/</p>

<p>There ARE significant differences among the three (though less between H and S), but they have nothing to do with what the OP was talking about.</p>

16

<p>It was an honest question! I know you are not an admissions officer because you are a student, harvard 1636. But students work in admissions offices, and I hear that some colleges have asked student representatives to contribute to discussions about their colleges on the CC boards. That was my question.</p>

17

<p>Thank you everyone. A lot of good information has been posted. I am going to try to respond to each, but in individual messages.</p>

18

<p>Stupid Kid:<You should probably spend more time working on applications at this point than wondering which one is better.</p>

<p>I got into all three. Yale was immediately off since I’m a math/science guy, although I did get a call from a math professor trying to convince me to go. I did visit yale on my way to CPW at MIT, the campus was nice. That one tower looks a lot better in photographs than it does in real life. I also visited both Harvard and Stanford. The general view is that Stanford is stronger in math/science/engineering, which I agree with, but Harvard isn’t bad either. The cross-registration policy with MIT is a huge plus. Palo Alto’s weather is probably 10x better than Cambridge’s, but it’s only four years of your life, not something impossible to deal with. I’ve also heard that the weather at Stanford is so nice that it distracts from your studies, don’t know how true it is. And finally, Harvard’s fin aid was a lot better than Stanford’s. The latter was probably the most important factor.></p>

<p>I am still working on my applications, but these are my first three schools choices. At my high school, we are committed by my high school through contracts to stanford or yale if we apply and are accepted (despite the early action loophole). It is an unfortunate policy. However, this is why I need to strengthen the finality of my rankings, as the acceptance rate for yale/stanford in the early action pool is double the normal. I am sure everyone can understand.</p>

<p>I have visited all three schools. I have visited Stanford only once, but have visited H and Y 5+ times each from a combination of reunions and college visits.
Palo Alto’s weather was perfect, but I know Cambridge’s and Yale’s climate, and have no problem with it.<br>
As for science, Yale is definitely lagging and I do like the situation with MIT at Harvard. Could someone expand on Harvard’s linear accelerator?
IM RICH B*TCH, so financial aide is not a factor for me.</p>

19

<p>uptow: <Yale science pales in comparison to Harvard/Stanford.</p>

<p>And if you dislike the Harvard schedule, starting your year, Harvard will have a schedule that is VERY similar to the current Yale one. This means exams before winter break with a 4 week winter break .></p>

<p>I did see Harvard’s new schedule and really liked it. Do you know if it is a permanent change, or is it just for that year? I also heard from a parent that regardless of schedule, freshman take exams after winter break because the school thinks they need more time. Is this true?</p>

20

<p>White_Rabbit: <harvard has=“” top=“” notch=“” physics=“” and=“” mathematics=“” programs.=“” freshman=“” seminars=“” this=“” semester=“” (12=“” students=“” each)=“” are=“” being=“” taught=“” by=“” noam=“” elkies,=“” lisa=“” randall,=“” roy=“” glauber=“” (=“” nobel=“” prize=“” for=“” physics).=“” i=“” also=“” had=“” no=“” problem=“” finding=“” work=“” the=“” coming=“” school=“” year=“” through=“” e-mailing=“” professors.=“” two=“” seemed=“” very=“” excited=“” to=“” have=“” me=“” in=“” their=“” labs.=“”></harvard></p>

<p>Could you expand on your experience getting undergrad research opportunities and what you will be working on?</p>