How did your high school kids balance school and music?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Musicprnt I loved your description of your son’s activities: sounds familiar!</p>

<p>I forgot to mention another path that we have tried. Although our school music department is not supportive of anyone who excels outside the school, we are fortunate to have a principal who does (at least, for dance, since the school doesn’t offer any).</p>

<p>One of our kids goes to 3 classes at school, and takes two classes online. As a result, she really does not spend much time in school. She just goes up for the classes, has no homeroom, and does not participate in any activities (although she would be allowed to). This means 90-135 minutes in school/day, only. Not only that, she is allowed to miss 1-2 days entirely if needed for dance, whether classes, rehearsals or performance.</p>

<p>We as a family committed to keeping her up, and she, as a student, does her work.</p>

<p>I guess you could call this modified home-schooling. It has worked really well.</p>

<p>p.s. the music teacher told our daughter not to major in music; he said that music was only for people who couldn’t do anything else!!</p>

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<p>DD never had any intention of being a music major. Still, her music involvement is very similar to the above listed…youth orchestra, chamber music, lessons on her primary instrument, piano lessons, school ensembles, gigs (yes…was often asked to play in pit orchestras and for other ensembles), practice, children’s choir through tenth grade. AND she took a rigorous course load and was 8th in her class of 200 students. She is an engineering major. Folks looked at her ECs and assumed she planned a music major. NOPE…she just chose ECs that she loved (and she is continuing to play her instrument in the college orchestra…and continues to take lessons).</p>

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<p>OP – I think it’s understandable that your 15-y-o D is ambivalent about you talking about her future. A lot can happen in the next two years, (including a 180 degree change of direction – which is what happened in my D’s case). We were very lucky that our D’s school was supportive of her musical activities; actually it became almost a problem because ironically the school did not have a strong music program and really wanted my D to take the lead in building one. (now THAT was one straw too many LOL)</p>

<p>Compmom makes an important point also about the strain, stress and wear and tear of all this on the FAMILY’s time AND money as well; I only had the one kidlet to deal with, but even so, I gave up two whole Saturdays a month for almost three years in support of her pilgrimage to THE teacher --a five hour roundtrip drive. (Last fall, once she’d settled into freshman year, I found myself wondering why I suddenly had so much free time on the weekends :slight_smile: )</p>

<p>Between lesson fee, gas, tolls, and lunch, each of those trips cost me $300. (I’m not complaining; even though she chose not to continue seriously with music in college, her training and the experience with this teacher was worth every penny and she valued and appreciated every moment of it.)</p>

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<p>Erm, well, it seems like this forum’s mostly parents, not students, which is actually pretty unusual, but pretty cool. </p>

<p>I go to a science-technology high school, the number one public high school in the nation actually… Our entire choir program ALMOST got cut for next year because of budget issues. Thankfully, it, and all of the other fine arts programs, have now been confirmed to be safe for next year, but… :\ The AP Music Theory class is 22 kids shoved into a room about the size of a typical apartment living room, with barely enough computers for half the class. I mean I suppose we have it better off than many schools, but eh. The post-AP Principles of Composition class is just rolled into the AP Music Theory class. Our entire school building in general is falling apart, though. </p>

<p>I… have no idea how I balance music and school. Actually, I think I manage to do that by making my schedule as musical/creative as possible. When I went to do my schedule for next year, my counselor was like, “This is possibly the most skewed schedule I have ever seen here.” That’s how arts heavy my schedule was.</p>

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<p>Compmom–your evil music teacher sounds like the one in our school who told our son there was no NYSSMA for jazz guitar!! We also have a very weak and weirdly obstructionist, emotionally toxic music department. If it had not been for the precollege program our son took he would have been so neglected as a music student. Well, not really because we would have found a way somehow!</p>

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<p>At my son’s precollege program, there were kids who travelled up to two or three hours each way (and some of the classes started at 9 a.m.!). Their dutiful mothers (usually, although there was an occasional dad!) waited all day as their musician kids attended classes and ensembles; then drove the two to three hours home again. They did this every Saturday for two to three years, because their towns/high schools did not have decent music programs, or there weren’t enough talented musical peers. Now THAT is dedication!</p>

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<p>Hats off to the parents and kids who are able to find a way in spite of an obstructionist school system. I enjoyed hearing about the home schooling and on-line classes. Three cheers for those of you who exercised creative options. Simultaneously, I’ve always been in awe at the music students wanting and needing to practice three or four hours a day were able to chime in with superior grade point averages, AP’s, and outstanding ec’s, etc. I still don’t know how they do it, except through osmosis. I know our daughter, a voice perform/music education major to be, could absolutely, positively not put in that kind of time without taking away from the six hours of sleep she was barely getting each night. However, I do know of one piano performance student who basically kissed his high school grades good-bye, put in his six hours per day practicing, and still got into a solid liberal arts/music school with scholarship money, not the max, but about half of what was available to top musicians and students with great academic scores at the same school. So I guess the mantra from the broadway musical, “The Music Man” (and from Sales & Marketing 101) really pays off – “You gotta know the territory.”</p>

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<p>A tangent:</p>

<p>Listening to some of these school stories, I guess we really didn’t appreciate what we had. At the time my kid was in high school, I was just extremely frustrated at the comments made to him by well-meaning teachers who thought he was spending too much time on his “hobby.” And those who counseled him to be “more well-rounded.” </p>

<p>And I was also in a constant state of anxiety over finances. We spent a lot - three kids studying 2 instruments each privately, plus fees for instruments, music, youth orchestras, All State, etc. It seemed every time I was turning around, I was being asked for money from the school for things I didn’t consider important (like funding the chaperones’ trips to Hawaii - that my S wasn’t going on…)</p>

<p>I did my share of manning the refreshment booth at football games, or chaperoning, or trying to sell fundraiser stuff (an exercise in futility, because the chair people on the band boosters always started a couple weeks before they handed the stuff out to the other kids).</p>

<p>I remember getting a serious of increasingly nasty phone calls from the band boosters because I was refusing to pay some exhorbitant amount. The woman calling me said, in essence, my S was where he was due to the high school program. It made me furious, since we had spent so much money and time outside the band program. I told her that if every kid who was donating (I think they were asking for $1000 or so) spent that money on private lessons instead, we’d have a better program all around. I finally had to request via the teacher that the calls stop. </p>

<p>In hindsight, I’ve learned that 95% of the band is there for reasons other than music, and in order to have enough participants to have a good music program, we have to fund their fun. At the time, though, I just wanted to scream -“Do you realize that this contribution is coming from our grocery money?” </p>

<p>But as far as classes, our HS has 5 bands, 4 orchestras, several choruses and vocal ensembles, AP music theory, music technology, jazz bands (two), extensive dance and theater and art programs. The school sends kids off to high quality programs every year. It’s give and take - when the school appreciates the arts, then the community does – and vice versa. (Of course, it is miniscule compared to the sports programs…)</p>

<p>Like most, his counselor was ignorant of music schools, but he was honest about it, and gave me his support and was willing to do whatever I asked him to do.</p>

<p>It’s so much easier to see the good after we’ve been away from it for a few years.</p>

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<p>wow, binx, we would have been in heaven had we had what your school has!</p>

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<p>binx: just to follow your tanget. We also discovered early on that marching band is NOT about the music. At our school, any recognition also works on seniority…meaning the choice music will only go to the seniors, no matter what. This is true for the rest of the orchestra and choral programs. D is constantly being encouraged to get out…spend more time practicing. But here in lies that 3rd piece of the balancing act…besides academics and music, they still have to grow up and mature, and learn how to make/choose great friends and just be silly once in a while. And we are grateful for our band program for that. So we’re still in.</p>

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<p>Our high school is small but has a fabulous concert band program…no marching band (although they do march in a couple of parades…no football team each week). But there was no orchestra (no strings program…school too small to support orchestra and band instrumentation). In middle school, the directors encouraged both of my kids to pursue outside orchestral opportunities. In our school, the players who could play the parts best got them. If a senior and a freshman were both able to do them…the senior usually got the part. BUT my son played many a solo part as an underclassman…so did DD. </p>

<p>Our directors emphasized the concert nature of the band program. Some band directors make students who play double reeds (for which there is no marching band music) switch instruments as a requirement of marching band. Our director did NOT do that. We wouldn’t have let our daughter switch from oboe to something else anyway…good that this didn’t come up as an issue. DD actually started a color guard for her band…and used it as her college essay topic. DS hated marching. BUT so funny…he’ll do it if he’s paid to!! He has had a couple of small marching gigs while in college. It makes me laugh. </p>

<p>Youth orchestra/precollege program was very important to my kids. Luckily we don’t live even an hour away from Hartt. Both kids also made wonderful friends there. In fact these are the kids they keep in touch with still.</p>

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<p>My kids’ high school has over 3000 students… no problem filling the seats.</p>

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<p>1100 students in grades 7-12…less than 200 in a grade.</p>

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<p>My D is one of those who does it all and does it the best. Even though the music/drama depts at her school were pretty awful, she did all she could there and also performed in the community at every opportunity, often rehearsing/performing 2 shows at a time. Beginning last year, she also held down 2PT jobs, one of which allowed her to sing. All of this was done while completing a rigorous academic curriculum consisting of Honors, AP and dual-credit courses and finishing with a 5.0 weighted GPA.If something she wanted wasn’t available at school, she made every effort to seek out an alternative.She’s hard-wired that way and would never have been comfortable doing less or taking less challenging courses. In fact, she chose to leave the school district she had always attended and to attend a private, Catholic, girls’ school because she was tired of being known as the “best of everything” and wanted to start over! All of her hard work has afforded her the option to pursue either a dual academic minor or taking a dual-degree (French to go with her VP) and all could be completed within 4 years since she has so many courses that will be accepted (all of those AP’s received grades of “5” and the exams this week look to be the same). Frankly, I wouldn’t have allowed her to lay off of the academics even though she has known since 6th grade that she wanted to attend a conservatory as opposed to a LAC or university; I feel that good grades are an indicator of performance in a career and am very proud that she has been so diligent and such a high achiever. I am especially proud that she has been involved in community service and has taken part in many charitable and volunteer opportunities and managed to find the best ways to mesh her talents with the needs of the organization/people. Never once has she felt overworked or burdened with more than she could take on so I’m sure that she will do just fine in college and wherever life takes her from there.</p>

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<p>Mezzo mama - Your daughter sounds absolutely amazing. I guess my daughter is not made of such fine stock.</p>

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<p>Nor mine! But she is so darn cute. And she loves physics, and plays a mean Mozart. And is looked up to by 55 other clarinets in the marching band, including the seniors. And she has made clarineting so much fun for one troubled middle schooler, who she mentors every week. I have no doubt that even if she doesn’t make it into her top college choices, she will still be happy and touch people’s lives. And as busy as this life is for our whole family, we are enjoying the ride while meeting amazing people all the time.</p>

<p>Suzukimomto2, take a deep breath and repeat after me: “There are many pathways to success. There are many pathways to success.”
Happy Mothers Day! You’re a GOOD MOM. Your daughter is very special.</p>

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<p>Oh Suzukimomto2, I’m sure your daughter has wonderful stock - she certainly sounds like she has everything she needs to realize her dreams, whatever her dreams may be! There is such a wealth of information on this board, I’m sure you will find the help to choose the perfect path for her! To me a great measure of a person’s success is their being happy and content with their lives! May your daughter find her path to such success! Best of luck!</p>

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<p>I agree with ABlestMom that “a great measure of a person’s success is their being happy and content with their lives” and that there are many pathways to success.</p>

<p>In the U.S., we especially value the well-rounded high achiever, for example, the kind of student who can play simultaneously play varsity sports, be in the top band and jazz combo, compete on the math team, do community service work and take a lot of AP courses (making top grades and test scores). </p>

<p>In general, talented musicians are not known for being extremely well-rounded and highly accomplished in a variety of areas. Some music students may be like that, but many others may not be that studious or scholarly in all areas. Some aspiring musicians may be good at math, but not so good at writing, or vice versa. Some gifted music students may have narrow interests or be very strong in areas that interest them and in which they have been self-taught, in comparison to the “nose to the grindstone” hardworking student who makes straight A’s even in subjects for which they have low interest. Some students who are strong in music may be socially awkward or shy, except in music, where they are able to find other people eager to play music with them. Some academically bright music students are so involved in their music activities and practicing that they do not have time to take a lot of AP courses. Some kids who are talented musicians are academically average. </p>

<p>Of course, those talented musicians who are well-rounded and top-ranked at everything they do are very impressive. But I also am impressed by serious music students who are positive, caring and inspire others, as CLRN8MOM described her daughter. I am impressed by those who take nontraditional paths and even risks (e.g., not taking a lot of AP courses or taking course schedules heavily skewed toward music) to reach their music goals, those who succeed after having starting serious music study later than most, and those who succeed despite living in communities that do not have strong music programs. Those are just a few examples. </p>

<p>There are many pathways to success, and some of them are more meandering than others.</p>

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<p>Whoa!! All of your kids are terrific, wonderful and very special in every way!! And all of you are wonderful parents! I never once meant to infer otherwise and please forgive me if I hurt anyone, that was never, ever my intention. So sorry. All I was getting at is that kids are different and that they each have different ways of getting to their goals. Believe me, living with an overachiever is not a walk in the park! While she is internally driven, she can easily walk past things that need doing in the house-things that would drive me nuts if left undone- and never see them. She knows her own schedule but forgets to let me know until I have to reschedule something of my own in order to make it all work. I had heard that over-achievers have “something wrong with them”, so I finally asked a therapist and was told that some are simply “wired” that way and that those that succeed are the ones that can prioritize in their minds and not drown in stress.Even though she has always been like this, but I wonder how much of her drive comes from being totally ignored by her father. They have no contact at all because he does not approve of her music studies and has steadfastly refused to even hear her sing a note. So you see, despite the successes, things are different under the surface. I share this so that you can see that the illustration of “different pathways to success” is an excellent one.
My other two, both boys, are totally different and all are a study in genetic recombination! The eldest didn’t figure things out until he was out on his own and is now very successful, but the youngest only bothers with what interests him and the rest, he ignores; drives me crazy.
What about the rest of you? If you have other kids, how different are they and do you think it could be tied to the artist in them? S1 plays Celtic Harp & guitar and is also very gifted in languages; D plays flute in addition to her vocal studies and languages also come easily to her; S2 played the oboe, but quit, and muddles through French, doing the bare minumum in school despite his amazing test scores. All have widely diverse interests but approach life so differently that it amazes me.</p>

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<p>I once heard Michael Tilson Thomas address a room of high school musicians telling them that part of the journey to being an artist involved being set apart as unusual in school. I’m not certain that I believe it to that extent, or perhaps we were extremely fortunate in our school, but I do believe that it does involve some sort of striving for independence in a good way-as in not following the crowd, but believing in yourself. </p>

<p>From my experience with one almost finished with college and one just accepted, they were extremely motivated in HS and MS to do those things they loved-pit bands in community shows, Youth orchestras, pre-college, Nutcracker, operas, jazz band- you name it they did it…The price we charged was decent grades. My husband and I expected that their grades would stay in the good range for them (no C’s allowed.- Once my daughter had a mid-term C and we had started to send in a note to a conductor that she would not be able to take on an upcoming show commitment, when she proved it popped back up to a B.) We found that as she matured, she was able to handle the double commitment of academics and music (although I’d like to meet anyone who has made it into a good music school with only a single hour or 2 of practice a day!) These were very long days with practicing for hours on end. Studies were on a train or catch as catch can. I think she was the first, perhaps only musician in NJYS, NYYO and Juilliard pre-college simultaneously-plus another 5 or 6 other musical commitments at all times. When she made it into every conservatory and school she applied to, I thought, “How lucky were we?” When the same thing happened for #2, with his music determination about his 10 ongoing music commitments and his IB curriculum, I realized it was more than just luck. It was our attitude towards them.</p>

<p>In return, we became those parents that would race them from a rehearsal in Jersey to a concert in NY and back again, helping them to keep up their chosen pace. I even have a third one interested in music and I’m asked constantly, “how do you make them work so hard and practice?” It’s easy, threaten to not let them do what they love. My kids have found a way to balance what they need to do for school (and what they need to do for music) with what they love, which is playing music. I’m always there to support them, but they are required to do a certain amount if it themselves.</p>

<p>If I recall, this thread began with a discussion about a music ed major-which I know absolutely nothing about. But my experience has shown me that if I set the bar on the things I think are important, and then give them free reign to make the decisions about how much to practice, how many ensembles to play in, how long to study for IB Econ test, etc. then they have stepped up to the plate and hit the ball out of the park. They may not end up playing in the met or a nobel prize winner (or perhaps they will) but I think they are self-accomplished and independent enough to do whatever they want.</p>

<p>I guess the proof is in the pudding. #3 is itching to go to pre-college and is working hard to get there. If it all works well, then my theory is working. If not, I was just lucky with the first two. Nobody can tell you how to raise your kids. You know your own kids. I can just tell you how I raised mine.</p>