How Difficult is Cooper Union?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cooper Union
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<p>Sorry for the double post, I meant to start a new thread earlier and instead posted a reply to another topic in the Cooper Union forum... </p>

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<p>My son is finishing up with his RD application for Cooper Union (chemical engineering). He applied to 6 schools and will wait and see what his options are. </p>

<p>He's a pretty smart kid, solid scores (800/800/720) and GPA, rigorous HS engineering program. The program does typically get kids into top schools, including Cooper Union. I think he'll have a decent shot at getting in.</p>

<p>So, I am wondering what kind of college experience will he get at Cooper? I know everyone talks about how difficult the program is. He's always been a great student, I really want him to have a good experience in college in addition to getting a good education. I think the school's small size could be a great feature. </p>

<p>When I read comments here on CC that make the school sound like some kind of boot camp, it does worry me. I would appreciate any feedback from current students or recent grads. </p>

<p>Also, if housing is not guaranteed beyond freshman year, how difficult will it be to stay somewhere near campus. I don't want him to commute to school if he can avoid it... </p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>any thought on Cooper Union? thanks.</p>

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<p>I'm a recent grad and I enjoyed my experiences at The Cooper Union. There is no question it is a tough school, no matter what your major is. There's a lot of work and students spend a lot of time on it, but the good thing about it is students tend to bond and there's a lot of camaraderie. Everybody helps everybody out, even those who aren't in your year. The people in your class will feel more like family members than classmates by graduation. </p>

<p>Most students tend to get apartments with friends/classmates in the East Village area beginning sophomore year. The difficulty of getting an apartment depends on the real estate market, how much you're willing to pay, and how fast you can close a deal. I was in school during the real estate peak, but with the market the way it is now, I can't imagine it'll be as difficult as it was then.</p>

<p>Let me know if you want to know anything else.</p>

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<p>thanks so much... I keep thinking that Cooper may be a very good option, and I'm really not focused that much on the free tuition benefit... My son's HS engineering program was selective, with 24 members in his class and he would quickly say that is one of the best parts of his HS experience. So, we'll have to see if he is admitted and then compare options, see what he wants to do...</p>

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<p>I am a current student at Cooper, second year ChemE. I transfered to cooper and can testify that the school is hard. However, it is completely doable as long as you do your work, the more time you put into it the better you do. Everybody tries to help each other out and there is no real competition among the student. The education you get is overall good but there are teachers that are terrible and you have to learn the material on your own. Finding an apartment close to campus is not really hard, most people end up looking for apartments with the roommates they had during the first year. </p>

<p>There are people who are miserable at cooper but they usually leave after the first year, as long as your son enjoys doing the engineering classes he will be fine.</p>

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<p>I see no one seems to be looking at the money aspect. Obviously the free tuition is a huge deal, but I am more concerned with real cost. Our EFC is less than $3000, so, as you can see, we are not well off. Given that, how realistic is it for my D to attend Cooper Union, since she will have to pay housing costs in a real market? Of course, it's not a big deal if you have disposable income, like the above posters seem to have; you just get the apartment you want, especially in this market. (I live close to NYC; really, with money, it's no big deal.) But what options does Cooper Union have for people who cannot possibly afford the $20K for room, board and expenses? Thanks.</p>

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<p>The school still offers financial aid, so you d should fill out the FAFSA and all neccesary paper work. Also, she can work in school to try and offset cost, also when looking for apartment a lot of people go 4 people for a 2 bedroom apartment cutting down cost. And finally taking out loans is always an option. I work, share a 1 bedroom apartment, and have loans.</p>

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<p>Thank you--Yes, we already filled out the FAFSA and other forms. ANd of course she will work, but financial aid advises you to use work money to cover 'extras' like using the subway or grabbing a burger when you're out and about, going to a museum, and art supplies of course. Given how busy she'll be, work study cannot possibly make a huge dent in her room and board. So how common is financial aid at Cooper? How many students are well-off and able to 'just' get an apartment from mom and dad? I want to be able to gauge how out of place my D might feel if all the other students are just getting checks from their parents to cover room and board but she is over $80K in debt.</p>

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<p>Majority of students don't really talk about financial situation, i am going to graduate with 48K in debt. however, must consider that i am doing chemical engineering and starting salaries are pretty high. A students economic situation will not hinder that person socially although it might add extra pressure academically. it is important for you to know that jobs ins school are not taxed and minimum wage is 9.50$ so it is possible for your daughter to put a dent into her spending by working say 15 hours. Consider that most jobs allow students to do homework while on the job. </p>

<p>PS. To offset spending summer REU or summer jobs at home help manage expenses</p>

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<p>
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it is important for you to know that jobs ins school are not taxed and minimum wage is 9.50$ so it is possible for your daughter to put a dent into her spending by working say 15 hours.

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<p>That may hold true for engineering students, but most art and architecture students spend a lot of time in their studios.</p>

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however, must consider that i am doing chemical engineering and starting salaries are pretty high.

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Not quite the same for art/architecture.</p>

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<p>Ken285, I realize you're trying to be helpful, but first of all, the NYC minimum wage isn't $9.50; it's $7.25. New</a> York State Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Law
I have no idea where you got the $9.50 from.<br>
And I don't know what you mean by 'jobs in school aren't taxed." Are they magically exempt from tax? Or do you mean work-study? Work study (if you qualify) is not taken into account for financial aid--that's not the same thing as not taxed. There is a limit to how much work study you can accept, as well.
As far as 15 hours a week--well, I think that's pretty much impossible in an art school. BUt let's say a miracle occurs or there are suddenly more hours in a day--that's $108.75 per week before tax, which is roughly going to be $3000 per school year. That is the cost of incidentals and supplies, which is what I was saying before. You are still left with housing and food, which is estimated at $19,000.<br>
I have to say I am getting the impression that most people DO get their costs paid for by their parents. If I am wrong, please let me know. This is good information to have.</p>

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<p>By sharing apartments and watching how i spend my money on food i spent roughly about 12,000 $ during the academic year. Work study, summer job, and some parent help offeset this cost. The rest take out a loan.</p>

<p>I know this cost can be brought even lower if i didnt live in manhattan and did not eat all my lunches during the week around school. The 19000$ is living in the dorms which are completly overpriced.
According to my FAFSA I do not qualify for work study, so i think that as long as your work in school Cooper treats it as work study (I work 10 hours a week making 94.20$ per week with only .80 cents held for taxes). The lowest paid job is in the computer center where it is 9.50$, AV department pays i think 11.50$. Chemistry stockroom is also i think 11.50$. Similar rates if you work in library, deans office. </p>

<p>If your D is lucky and talented enough to get into cooper art , i dont think it is an offer that can be passed up becuase of money.</p>

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<p>Thank you, isi8787. This is good info. How hard did you find it to get a job? Are you in art? If so, has 10 hours/week been do-able? Finally, are you saying you are borrowing $12,000 per year, for a total of $48,000? (The rest being paid by your parents and with work). If so, are you in art? How then do you propose to pay you loan once you graduate? By the way, guys, as an English teacher, I hope you don't mind, but I can't help but comment on several posters' backwards dollar signs. The dollar sign goes before the numbers, not after. As in: $11.50, not 11.50$ Just feedback--if you put this on a resume in the 'real world,' you might lose a job (they're very picky about punctuation, spelling, grammar).</p>

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<p>Im doing chemical engineering, and i want to go to grad school after cooper. In fact i will have 48K debt by the time i am done. Good thing about the economy being in shambels is that interest rates are low, so taking a loan with a fixed rate is not a as painfull as it could have been in the past. To pay the loans i have 30 years, paying roughly $250~350 per month. I did a lot of research on the loans, did not qualify for goverment back loans which was really dissapointing. To pay back, i will take a while, but i think the monthly payments are doable in engineering. I really do not know what the earning potentails are for artist.
Getting a job was not really hard, if you tell them you have financial need, the financial aid or deans office will help you find one. I work in the engineering building and dont really know of any artist working here. I do know of some architects workign similar hours i i believe they have the hardest schedules and curriculum.
Apreciate the $ sign tip, born and raised in venezuela, been in the US for 5 years and up to now nobody mentioned that ;).</p>

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<p>Thanks for the responses.... I just wondered if there might be any other current students or recent graduates that could comment on the workload and environment for students at Cooper Union? Thanks..</p>

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<p>I am currently a second semester freshman in the engineering school of Cooper Union. The description of Cooper Union workload is very accurate. For example, every freshman student must take Physical Chemistry, regardless of major. And if you snoop around, you will find that Physical Chemistry is a third year course at almost any other engineering school. Now, considering that your son is a chemical engineer, this will benefit him immensely, but at the same time, for him and for the rest of us, it is still a bit burdensome. </p>

<p>Honestly though, the main reason why Cooper Union is considered so difficult is for two reasons. Firstly, teachers here barely curve. The typical curve goes to a 65, occasionally a 70, when I know from brothers and cousins at other prestigious institutions (I am not saying all do this), curve to 75 and 80. Professor Wolf, the Physics Lecture professor, doesn't curve at all; instead, he assigns grades based on percentile rank (don't get me wrong, he is a great teacher).</p>

<p>And secondly, one reason why Cooper Union is so tough is because, quite honestly, no one gets into Cooper Union without having earned it (although some who deserve it don't get in). No matter how rich your parents are, Cooper Union doesn't care. They accept students who represent the top few percentiles of the nation (and other nations). As a result, it doesn't matter how good we are, because statistically, half of us are now in the bottom half of our class! If you are at any other university, if you are really bright or work hard, you will end up in the top of your class, because the people who don't work hard will be getting the bad grades. But at Cooper Union, everyone is brilliant and hard working, yet someone still has to get Cs and Ds.</p>

<p>Cooper Union is the only school that greets its students on orientation day saying, "be prepared to meet C." Your son can get in here, and work extremely hard, and only get a B/C average. Let it be known though, that in Cooper Union, that is not a bad grade. I've met a few people who flunked out of Cooper Union. One of them went to UPenn, and his GPA is now 3.7/4</p>

<p>Good luck to your son, but be careful, admission rates will be worse for your son than previous years.</p>

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<p>Correctly if I'm wrong but I thought cooper union decided who to admit based on national merit results</p>

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<p>That's not true.</p>

<p>They admit based mostly on grades and test scores for engineering, and talent / portfolio for architecture and art.</p>

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<p>I totally agree with Ken285. No American school is going to base admittance on national merit test scores. Sure, that's part of it, but there's grades, courses taken, letters of recommendation, outside interests, and the essays. I can't really speak for the engineer portion as to what the relative values of each are, but as for the art school, which my daughter has applied to, while they apparently mostly accept based on portfolio and home test, it is my understanding that they also base on overall intelligence, maturity, independent thinking, etc., which they assess partly based on grades/test scores, and partly based on a very open-ended series of questions on the home test. Good luck--</p>

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<p>I went to CU for one year and transferred out. IMHO, Cooper is not worth it. The teachers in chemE are quite poor. You have this guy called Brazinky whom I heard is worse than Okafor - this guy kept harassing people in class and is a poor teacher.</p>

<p>On top of all this, there is a zero social life at CU. It’s almost freaking impossible to get a date to save your life (even if you’re a good looking guy) and NYC for a student is not a adventurous night life party place. </p>

<p>Tack in the residence pay in NYC and you have a whopping 20K yearly debt unless you share a place with 3-4 people. </p>

<p>I remember a girl called Julie who graduated from CU with a 3.4 and the professors were stunned she had such a high GPA. Because of all the stress, she passed out and had to be hospitalized her soph. year.</p>

<p>I transferred out and left alive having learned some pretty solid physics from a guy called Alan Wolf.</p>

<p>It’s the social side you have to be careful about. Good luck all</p>