How do colleges react to applicants who have great stats but are mentally ill?

Parents Forum
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<p>^^MyLB, I heard in one of my classes that St. John’s Wort, a natural supplement, was as effective as antidepressant drugs for mild depression. However, if you go with the St. John’s Wort you should know that it interacts with some other drugs, either elevating or lowering their levels.</p>

<p>If your kid ends up going on anti-depressants, keep in mind that there typically is an initial period where it doesn’t help the depression at all. However, it does reduce the patient’s inhibitions. The combination of depression and lowered inhibitions can be dangerous for obvious reasons. Just something to keep in mind.</p>

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<p>MyLB, my dd did lower her college expectations based on her health history. For her, in particular, to be successful she would need a smaller supportive environment. I don’t want to give out too many particulars online but she was accepted at the U of MN and Iowa State but decided those were too big for what she needed. Her other schools were smaller LAC type colleges. She had to stay an extra year in high school due to her illnesses and also spent 2 months in a treatment facility. We were thrilled with her college results as we really didn’t know what to expect based on her situation. We thought for sure she would get some rejections by disclosing everything, but she didn’t. We know of others who were waitlisted/rejected at least from the U of MN with great stats and without circumstances that needed to be explained.</p>

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<p>“I am not terribly concerned about anti-depressants (surprise surprise–I have experience with them myself), although DH is fairly strongly opposed to putting any kind of medicine in a kid’s mouth. We’ll have that discussion when the time comes, but I am open to it (and I believe DS is old enough to make the decision on his own).”</p>

<p>Research has indicated that the combination of antidepressants and therapy is the best treatment for depression. I have a doctorate in clinical psychology, and also have had bouts of depression throughout my life, but it took me decades to try antidepressants. When I started using them about 4 years ago, they changed my life for the better. Therapy had provided temporary relief for my depression, but antidepressants literally changed my life in that now I can see that even when my depression had lessened due to therapy, I was still depressed. I just didn’t realize it because I had never experienced what other people would consider feeling normal.</p>

<p>I don’t think that using antidepressants is a decision I’d leave up to a minor child. It would be good to have your child assessed by a psychiatrist, too, and have a medical work-up and then hear what the psychiatrist suggests.</p>

<p>I found that seeing a psychiatrist for meds and a licensed social worker or psychologist for therapy worked well for me.</p>

<p>Best of luck to your son. He is fortunate to have such a caring, involved mom.</p>

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<p>How would they know unless you told them? By the way, your doctor most likely knows that your health information is legally between you, them, and your parents (unless you are no longer a minor).</p>

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<p>ca314–I’d actually trust something regulated by the FDA over an herbal remedy. And I am aware that there is a build-up to the full effects of anti-depressants. I’m very aware that there are possible serious side effects in teenagers. I’ve already gently begun the “if you ever have any thoughts of harming yourself. . .” discussion. </p>

<p>Stormy–thank you for sharing. After this past year our college expectations had fallen to “will it ever even happen.” I’m actually more optimistic since the diagnosis, although would certainly only steer him toward a smaller, gentler environment. He was a good student until two years ago, and already has some not-bad SAT scores. Don’t know if I mentioned that before the diagnosis, we had already decided to have him repeat his junior year and he will move to a private school.</p>

<p>Nsm–I do know the combination of medication and therapy has the highest probability of success. And DH will come on board if it becomes obvious therapy alone isn’t working. I do think it was good for him to hear, though, that medication isn’t something we’ll rush into. I understand the advice re: who makes the medicate or not decision, but this child is already 17.5. I think he will best know if he needs help beyond the therapy. I’m also hoping that after another month or so of meeting with his therapist, he will have come to trust him if he advises trying an anti-depressant. Child coincidentally had a physical only a few weeks ago, but I’ve contacted the pediatrician to see if blood work is warranted. I believe the pediatrician would do the prescribing if it comes to that, although for me it was a psychiatrist in the same practice as my therapist.</p>

<p>And to ilpal–did not mean to highjack this thread but I have found an amazing amount of comfort (as well as useful information) on CC. Thanks for letting me stick my nose in.</p>

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<p>NSM – that is exactly my experience also (except for the doctorate in clinical psychology!)</p>

<p>Did the OP say that there were gaps in his/her schooling that he/she felt they would have to explain? My impulse would be to say don’t disclose on applications, but after acceptance evaluate resources carefully. If you have gaps to account for, however, what DO you do?</p>

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<p>For my dd, we were told the gaps would absoultely have to be explained. (Her gaps were significant.) We were also told that the guidance office would need to address them. We felt it best for both our dd and the guidance office to each address them which seemed to work in my dd’s favor.</p>

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<p>I would think if the gaps were significant that yes, they would need to be addressed. Probably best to discuss with the current school so that school recommendation would “match” the applicants explanation. I would not view it as any different than explaining a gap in a work history or any other atypical chronology. Think of it this way, colleges/unis want kids to succeed not fail, but like a company looking for a reasonable story regarding an employment gap phrase the reason in a way that will enforce the success post gap (I would think.)</p>

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<p>dbw–although we’re now a year away from thinking about colleges, I’m liking Stormy’s idea of full disclosure on the app (I believe OP and I have both been wondering where/how best to do that–I think essay topic is overkill). A school that would reject for a depression diagnosis is probably not a good environment for this child.</p>

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<p>MyLB, we were also told to make sure the personal statement, where my dd disclosed her issues, was not to sound like she was making excuses or to make them feel sorry for her. She wrote hers in a very factul way. I sometimes wonder if people who are dead set against disclosure actually had the situation or what they are basing their opinion on.</p>

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<p>I don’t think this is true. I think many schools which are good environments might still hold it against them. Keep in mind that the admissions staff is not necessarily reflective of the rest of the school or the support services. Full disclosure may be ok at state schools which are more stat-driven, but it is less likely to be overlooked at more subjective, elite schools. </p>

<p>The people in the admissions office are not necessarily more informed than the general public about depression. Frankly, I think admissions is generally biased against introverted personalities. I think the attitude is they want someone actively engaged in the community, and an introvert. I think, at least subconsciously, a diagnosis of depression suggests to them someone that is going to be even more antisocial and disconnected from campus. Add to that what happened at Virginia Tech, and they may associate it (wrongly) with potential violence. And if your attitude is that these people will be educated by you being forthright about mental illness, well, its more powerful if you get into the school, flourish, and then write a letter to them saying that depression shouldn’t be stigmatized.</p>

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<p>“And if your attitude is that these people will be educated by you being forthright about mental illness, well, its more powerful if you get into the school, flourish, and then write a letter to them saying that depression shouldn’t be stigmatized.”</p>

<p>The question, though, is whether someone who has had a serious bout of depression before going to a high pressure, impersonal college will flourish there. Such a person may be more vulnerable to becoming clinically depressed in college than would students who hadn’t suffered from depression before. </p>

<p>College – particularly freshman year – is hard enough on students who haven’t had mental health problems. It’s very stressful to be in such a new environment. If the college is a high pressure, impersonal one, that adds greatly to the stress and to the possibility that if a student develops mental health problems, such problems may go unnoticed and untreated, and could end up being fatal.</p>

<p>Based on my own experiences of suffering from depression while at Harvard, and based on what I saw of other students there who suffered from mental illness, I don’t think that such a college is a good place for students who have had a prior history of having a serious mental illness.</p>

<p>The girl who roomed next to me freshman year threw herself under a subway train and died. A friend a year older than me spent part of her junior year in a mental hospital. One of my roommates asked me if I would push her out of our 18th floor dorm window. A young man whom I knew became psychotic and started slipping notes under friends’ doors claiming that he was God.</p>

<p>It’s relatively easy for people with mental illnesses to go unnoticed at places like Harvard. Such schools are very different from the close ties that students develop with professors at, for instance, many liberal arts colleges and at some public and private colleges that take pride in being nurturing. </p>

<p>This is why I think that the #1 consideration for students with mental health problems is selecting colleges where they are likely to flourish and to be able to get effective help quickly if their mental health starts deteriorating. Consequently, it’s important for such students and their families to work closely with the student’s therapist while selecting colleges to apply to.</p>

<p>I also agree with those suggesting honesty in describing gaps and grade deficiencies that were caused by mental illness. If that causes one not to be accepted by a college, then that probably would not have been a good college for one to have attended. </p>

<p>I also think that when it comes to top colleges, the admissions officers are likely to be graduates of top colleges, and are likely to be more open minded and knowledgeable about mental illness than is the case with the general public. The higher people’s educational level, the greater the likelihood that they or family members have had some kind of mental health treatment.</p>

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<p>I attended a large public university and, during my freshman year, I returned to my dorm one night to hear from my roommate that a friend had stopped by, written me a note, and then thrown it in the trash before she left. I retrieved the note; it was a suicide note. I was able to make some calls and her family came and took her home. She ended up leaving school and needing treatment. Clearly something was lacking in the support system at this school. Had my roommate not said something, it could have ended tragically. So, I do think that it’s important for a person who is prone to depression to try to match up with a school that does have good services and a strong support network – whether it’s a freshman counselor, sponsor groups or whatever – something where a person isn’t just lost in an impersonal system.</p>

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<p>NSM, I think what will happen when a person discloses a mental illness or depression is that the colleges that accept them do so because the person is academically overqualified with respect to the normal admit and therefore they feel it is worth it to ignore the depression. However, that college is not necessarily any better an environment. For instance, I bet a big impersonal state school would admit an academic star with personal problems. </p>

<p>I’ve heard or been close to people at MIT with similar stories to your Harvard ones. However, I think most of these people weren’t clinically depressed until they got to MIT. Most often, they might have had a tendency toward negativity or pessimism, but nothing dramatic. I don’t know what would have happened to someone who was already seriously depressed before they arrived on campus.</p>

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<p>"NSM, I think what will happen when a person discloses a mental illness or depression is that the colleges that accept them do so because the person is academically overqualified with respect to the normal admit and therefore they feel it is worth it to ignore the depression. However, that college is not necessarily any better an environment. For instance, I bet a big impersonal state school would admit an academic star with personal problems. "</p>

<p>I know a stellar young woman who got into Bryn Mawr despite having disclosed her history of clinical depression. She was an excellent student, and Bryn Mawr was a good match for her. Even without her history of depression, more competitive schools would have been reach schools for her as they are for most excellent students.</p>

<p>I agree that state schools admit students overwhelmingly based on stats and state of residence, and aren’t likely to reject students due to mental illness. Still, many state schools – particularly the huge ones – wouldn’t be optimal environments for people with mental health problems. </p>

<p>" I don’t know what would have happened to someone who was already seriously depressed before they arrived on campus."</p>

<p>Yes, that particularly troubles me. Someone who has a prior history of severe mental illness is going to be at high risk in college, and won’t be surrounded by family members who recognize the signs that the student needs treatment and can help the student get treatment. The student also may try to self medicate by using alcohol or street drugs, which could add to the risk of severe problems.</p>

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<p>All schools should have good mental health support services because college is the time when certain mental illnesses tend to strike for the first time. It’s not enough to worry about caring for those who already have a history – it’s imperative that schools be able to recognize the onset of mental illness in those who have no prior history. I know a kid whose roommate displayed some very disturbing behavior. This kid notified an RA who completely minimized the problem. Most schools need to do a much better job of identifying kids who are in trouble.</p>

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<p>I know somebody who applied early decision to a school where I would think the odds were stacked in her favor. She wrote her essay about overcoming an eating disorder, and was rejected – not even deferred. I don’t know why that decision was made, and nobody will, and it’s possible that they were unrelated, but there you go.</p>

<p>I have a good friend who struggled with mental illness while he was at MIT. They definitely try to provide support – to the point of controlling his medical care and forcing him to meet with mental health and support services staff frequently (though he had outside treatment). He felt that the actual ability of these people to treat him was terrible and forced him to jump through a lot of unnecessary hoops and ultimately hurt his education and experience. He said that given the choice now he would not have sought treatment at all vs everything that he’s had to go through with the school. He also would have chosen a different school.</p>

<p>MIT I think is a bit unique though. I know every school has their stories and suicides but they had a lawsuit from somebody’s parents and it looks like the school didn’t really pay enough attention to the student’s problems. MIT wants to provide its support and force people into it once they are there, but I think they see admitting people with mental health history as a risk they may not want to take.</p>

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<p>To generalize, fairly or unfairly, I think urban schools are particularly dangerous for young people prone to depression. There is just a level of anonymity that is tolerated in urban environments, or that may even be necessary in a densely packed living situation. The schools that jump out for me as suffering suicides are MIT, NYU and the University of Chicago, along with the not exactly urban, but gray and stressful Cornell.
I live on the campus of the University of Chicago and work here. I have several friends who are undergraduate resident heads. All have had students in their dorms kill themselves- either jumping off the top of their dorm, scaffolding at the chapel, using pills, knives or guns.
My kids have attended smaller schools, and one school in particular is rural. After years of reading the campus papers online at both schools, I know of one suicide. In this case the administration whisked the individual off campus and the suicide occurred over a year after leaving campus. My son had a friend who was a cutter and suffering depression. Same story. Get her the heck off campus. She later returned to school in better shape and graduated. Though neither of my kids’ schools are LACs, there is a LAC like intimacy to them. Problems are noticed by fellow students and by levels of support staff. Miss a class you are used to attending when you are sick, and it is noticed. I’m sure I am being unfair, but I imagine disappearing at NYU or Columbia would take a while to be noticed.
I don’t know whether the “identify them and whisk them off campus” policy has better outcomes for the student in the long run. Obviously it is self-serving on the part of the college. I would just be wary of sending a young person prone to depression to schools where it is possible to be anonymous.
PS- I would NEVER let college officials know of these issues as an applicant, and would immediately plug into OFF-CAMPUS supports if admitted and attending.</p>

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<p>I think non-disclosure of any serious medical issue is a mistake- but I take it I am in the minority here. What’s the point of getting admitted to Dream School only to arrive and discover it is a poor and potentially dangerous place for the kid? Frankly, whether or not having depression, or being bi-polar, or anorexic, is stigmatizing, would not be my concern if this were my kid. Knowing that my child had a shot at graduating, or at least emerging from college alive and psychologically intact would be my absolute priority.</p>

<p>A college that rejects your kid (and you’ll never know if it was the B- in Spanish junior year or the depression… ) is doing you a favor if it’s a place where mental health is a low priority, or where it’s just too hard for an 18 year old to get appropriate support, or just advocate for him or herself.</p>

<p>I had a depressed and suicidal roommate Freshman year. To this day, I think it was bordering on child abuse for the parents to assume that some random stranger (that would be me) at age 17, would be in a position to assume care of their child, in addition to my own adjustment to college. This was a far less enlightened age as far as mental illness goes… but for the parents to hope that their kid would “snap out of it” (direct quote when I called the Mom to tell her that her daughter had been talking about killing herself, non-stop, for two days) is irresponsible in the extreme.</p>

<p>So I vote for disclosure.</p>

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<p>Blossom: admissions personnel and other college personnel are separate entities. Disclosure to admissions would not have solved your problem, unless that disclosure had meant your roommate would not have been admitted. That kind of discrimination is not legal.</p>

<p>Disclosure to administrative staff (such as deans), health services, and residential staff are all helpful possibilities, and some parents or students tell all of these folks, as well as set up therapy in a private setting.</p>

<p>So many students are “depressed” (and on meds- again, at top colleges, I believe it is up to 35%), it would be hard for schools to sort out who is seriously depressed and a danger to themselves, initially, without some very astute and attentive staff involved who are paying attention.</p>

<p>You should not have had to make that call: it should have been made by staff, to whom you would be able to go to with the concerns. In fact, at our daughter’s school, if you had taken concerns to the dorm staff, and then met with the dean, that student would have been sent home.</p>

<p>Your situation was not the parents’ fault, but, instead, some deficiency in the functioning of the college’s own support system for students, both in regard to your roommate, and you. Or, possible, you took on too much responsibility yourself and went too long in bearing the burden of the problem yourself.</p>

<p>The point is, there are usually protections in place that allow a student with treated depression to attend, while also preventing the kind of roommate problem you describe.</p>