<p>If only Michigan were located in CA...acceptance rate would be sub-25% I guarantee</p>
<p>Don't believe me then look at the acceptance rate of UCLA, UCB, USC, etc. - all comparable schools to UM</p>
<p>You can't solely go by acceptance rates</p>
<p>Hey MightyNick,</p>
<p>I know UM inside and out-- my grandfather taught there for decades. Over 25% of my graduating class went there. Many of the graduate programs are very fine, but the undergraduate education is trash. </p>
<p>Think of it this way: UM has a piddling $175,000 per student. My old school, which was not so hot, had about $350,000 per student. My new school has over $1.5 million per student. You simply cannot get a good education with such a small endowment. </p>
<p>A lecture class on Milton with 300 students... GSAs circulating around the auditorium with microphones, should one of the dumb in-staters have a question: NO THANKS!</p>
<p>The factory system of education is necessarily inferior. </p>
<p>It should also be mentioned that the architecture at UM is horrendous.</p>
<p>It should be mentioned that your post is useless and ridiculous. Have you heard of state funding? Research overhead? Net tuition? State funded buildings. All make it silly to compare a private and public based on endowment. UM has over 70 National Academy members. How many does your alleged school have?</p>
<p>In terms of pure academic factors I'd say only 7-8 schools are "better" than UM. When it comes to the overall college experience I'd put it top 5.</p>
<p>"You simply cannot get a good education with such a small endowment."</p>
<p>I should tell that to all of my friends who are going to graduate programs that are top 5 in their field.</p>
<p>Barrons:</p>
<p>Actually, UM has (only) 19 members of the National Academy of Sciences. See my post #44 earlier today.</p>
<p>UM is an excellent university, but many public and private universities have far more NAS members among their faculty (my post #41 of today). Let's not get carried away.</p>
<p>I am looking at survey data from U-M's class of 2008, where they report about their experiences as undergrads. If they go through four years without ever talking to a professor, they sure do lie about it when asked about their time here. So not just morons, but also liars, apparently. Useful to know, thanks.</p>
<p>Other gripey quibbles for a Thursday afternoon: You can be all kinds of "objective" and still put a school down in subtle ways. I seem to recall someone "objectively" noting that Ann Arbor was a small city and declaring that U-M was not convenient to a major airport. Bzzzzt, wrong answer.</p>
<p>And Lehigh is quite a decent engineering school, so I wouldn't necessarily classify it as an LAC.</p>
<p>It has more members in ther other categories--engineering, medicine, etc. The total is over 70 as reported here.</p>
<p>Research-</a> The Center for Measuring University Performance</p>
<p>Look large public universities are not for everyone. If you need to be held by the hand and otherwise coddled you don't want to attend the University of Michigan. However if you want to prepare yourself to succeed in the real world and be able to communicate with people of all levels, then it is about as good as place as there is to attend college. It seems to me that the people who disparage public schools in general, and Michigan in particular, are not the type of people that most others would want to associate with. Just my humble opinion.</p>
<p>We have several Nobel Laureates and 5:1 student faculty ratio. But this isn't about whether my school is better. I will say, however, that I applied to UM, was accepted and chose not to go. </p>
<p>My contention is simple:</p>
<p>A gigantic university, supported by the government, located in a dying state will never be first rate. </p>
<p>I don't put all that much stock in rankings, but UM was once ranked #8. What is it now #25? That's an incredible decline. The chancellor bolted for Columbia. What's the average SAT score, 1200? </p>
<p>I think most people regard UM as a second rate Northwestern. </p>
<p>Again, many of the graduate programs are manifestly excellent... and a PhD or a JD from UM certainly impresses me. But as an undergraduate institution it's simply not very good, and by what metrics I've seen, is worsening.</p>
<p>ok, now you are just a troll, ban!</p>
<p>My own dad (not grandfather, but dad) taught at a university. I grew up being on campus, going to art shows there, socializing with faculty and their kids. That doesn't mean I know the place inside and out. It's neat that your granddad taught here, but it doesn't make your assessment credible. </p>
<p>U-M dropped from 8 to 25 or so because they expanded the components of the ranking. Rankings from this era and rankings from 1987 aren't a reasonable comparison. The #8 ranking, back in the 1980s, was a peer ranking. If you compare today's peer ranking with back then, you instead see U-M has hardly moved. Some very ill-read person at a think tank in Midland once said U-M "plummeted" based on that metric. It was a huge embarrassment for them and the author. For some reason that has stuck with people, you included. But it's absolutely incorrect.</p>
<p>Bollinger was not our chancellor--you really aren't coming off as someone who knows U-M well. I would not characterize his departure to Columbia as "bolting" for quality reasons.</p>
<p>The mean SAT is not 1200. But if you know this place inside and out, why are you asking?</p>
<p>As soon as i read the word "chancellor," i knew this person wasn't very familiar with Michigan.</p>
<p>Next he'll be telling us that Ann Harbor isn't that great a town and that Zingermunds is overrated.</p>
<p>It's "Ann Arbor" and "Zingerman's." Personally i think Zingerman's is overrated. There are better delis in the Detroit suburbs.</p>
<p>Listen,</p>
<p>I'm not saying that UM is a "bad" school. Clearly it isn't. Hell, my brother, my dad, my stepmother are all alumni!</p>
<p>My point is that the quality of the education is limited by the resources, which pale in comparison to those of private universities. To claim that, as one poster did, UM is a top five university is outrageous. </p>
<p>I know at least 50 students, currently enrolled at UM, all of whom I've had classes with in high school. They are simply not the brightest. The smart kids go out of state: Yale, Stanford, U Chicago, Williams-- they don't (and this is especially true now that all elite private universities/colleges meet 100% of demonstrated financial need) go to UM. </p>
<p>Even at Emory (which is also not a great school), where I was till very recently, the students were much more capable.</p>
<p>I think UM has great academics and is out there fighting the good fight for public school recognition. And I go to OSU. Yeah, I know how to separate sports from other aspects of my life. :)</p>
<p>I have met various UM affiliates (they may not even be alumni or undergrads) who have an arrogant, condescending attitude and like to make jokes about how everyone in Ohio (or indeed anyone who dare go to another public school) is a redneck idiot. My opinion of these people is obviously low (they're ridiculous), but I doubt they make up a sizeable percentage of Michigan students.</p>
<p>Emory not a great school? You are a pretentious idiot.</p>
<p>Resources--lets check that. UM libraries around 9 million volumes. Way more than Chicago and Emory and Northwestern for starters. One of the five largest in the US.</p>
<p>UM art museum and other on campus museums--great and expanding.</p>
<p>U-M</a> | Museum of Art (UMMA)</p>
<p>UM engineering labs--among the best anywhere. </p>
<p>UM bioscience buildings--new labs featured in AR</p>
<p>Sure the resources are lacking--the ones you used to form these silly opinions.</p>
<p>U of M is a great school, no doubt. BUT MSU is better, just because I'm going there :P</p>
<p>Its quite funny everytime I mention i'm going to Michigan state, people always assume its michigan. Oh, that's such a great school, they say, wolverines right? NOPE. Spartans. Michigan state. Green/white, not blue/gold. Once I point this out, they either go
1) Oh, they have a good basketball team! Kinda lame football team though
2) Oh. I don't recognize this school. <em>mutters and shakes head in disapproval</em> You should of applied to MIT or harvard. (99% of asian parents i meet)</p>
<p>So obviously it has a good reputation, overshadowing (IN REPUTATION) the other michigan school in practically everything (many special programs notwithstanding-international relations is nonexistent at u of m, while msu has the james madison college).</p>