How do people view University of Michigan??? against other universities

College Search & Selection
81

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Listen,</p>

<p>I'm not saying that UM is a "bad" school. Clearly it isn't. Hell, my brother, my dad, my stepmother are all alumni!

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<p>After you called UMich undergrad 'trash'. Your bias against UMich is clearly demonstrated. Yeh, UMich undergrad, I agree, may not be as prestigious as Northwetern or other privates at undergrad level, but it still is a top 25 university... </p>

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Even at Emory (which is also not a great school), where I was till very recently, the students were much more capable.

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<p>With your standards, there would be only a handful of schools that would be considered to be good, then. Do you happen to attend HYPSM? Otherwise, I don't think you are qualified to come with blanket statements like the ones you've been writing.</p>

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<p>UMich is a state school but it's like the #1 or #2 state school in the country. Therefore, in my opinion, I think it is viewed quite positively, although obviously not with the same name recognition as the ivies and some other top tier privates.</p>

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<p>thanks guys. I realize that Michigan can't really be compared to private schools, but I just wanted your opinions. This is a wild thread... as for anzacday, obviously if you are attending Emory and now Rice, I am assuming that you are a liberal arts major, and I guess your hatred can be sourced from the fact that Michigan is underrated in their LSA college. Your point of view is exactly how people around me view U Michigan, as a big state college that is overrated. I was starting to believe it until this thread. Thanks guys, I can't wait to go to Michigan...</p>

84

<p>Whenever I hear University of Michigan I just think of that famous song of the Midwest, dating back to 1940 -</p>

<p>The</a> Michigan Song</p>

<p>:-)</p>

85

<p>Leave it to the Buckeyes to rhyme "damn" and "Michigan".</p>

<p>=P</p>

86

<p>LOL. Some Buckeyes are so obsessed with everything about U-M they even come to this board. A previous tOSU poster wanted to know why some Michigan alumni are arrogant. They aren't arrogant, they are just better than you. j/k ;-)</p>

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<p>i think UM alumni's rumored arrogance is pretty true. I notice two other school alumni seem to exhibit similarly frequent behavior, upenn, and cornell. All the other schools? not so much. i don't know why exactly that is, it's just what i've encountered so far.</p>

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<p>Perhaps it's because the graduates of these schools have to always defend their diplomas against other schools who are their peers. HYP, Stanford, and MIT are tops. They have the wow factor and have no real peers. Michigan, Cornell, Penn, and all of the rest of the top 25 schools have many peers (each other). I guarantee you that many graduates of the others have the same amount of "smugness." In Michigan's case the reason there seem to be so many "arrogant" alumni is because there are so many of them in the first place. I laugh when i read people stating that 68% of Michigan's students are from the state. That is true. I can also assure you that probably 75% of them are leaving the state after graduation. So the "arrogance" in numbers gets all over the country and world.</p>

89

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I have met various UM affiliates (they may not even be alumni or undergrads) who have an arrogant, condescending attitude and like to make jokes about how everyone in Ohio (or indeed anyone who dare go to another public school) is a redneck idiot.

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Unlike you, these people might not be able to "separate sports from other aspects of (their lives)." This reminds me of someone named Woody...</p>

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LOL. Some Buckeyes are so obsessed with everything about U-M they even come to this board. A previous tOSU poster wanted to know why some Michigan alumni are arrogant. They aren't arrogant, they are just better than you. j/k ;-)

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Unlike you, these people might not be able to "separate sports from other aspects of (their lives)." This reminds me of someone named Woody...

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<p>Hmm. I'm not sure how to respond to these, but I think we should stick to talking about the topic: people's impressions of U of M. No need to take shots at me and my school when I feel I was giving honest, fair, and overall positive opinions.</p>

91

<p>Tsukasa,</p>

<p>Academically, Emory is not bad at all. My department, however, was pretty mediocre. I would say its "not a great school" for social reasons. We have a real frat-boy problem, and a great deal of attention is paid to the logo on one's shirt. </p>

<p>I have still not heard any refutations of my argument: hordes of nameless students rounded up into 500 seat lecture halls, grading and discussion sections the responsibility of GSAs... these are not to sought in undergraduate education.</p>

<p>And this public school business. Being the best public school is like being the tallest building in Omaha... It's a nice fun fact, but in the end... who cares?!</p>

92

<p>Hint--most people never even heard of Rice. On the west coast you will just get stared at after you say it followed by, where's that? Pretty much the same in Chicago and the northeast. But it has a good rep in Houston.</p>

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grading and discussion sections the responsibility of GSAs

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I wonder what teaching assistants in Emory or Rice do. Do they just sit in the office shuffling papers and collecting pay checks?</p>

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hordes of nameless students rounded up into 500 seat lecture halls

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Surely you exaggerate. Where do you find some of these 500 seat lecture halls? And do you mean to tell me there is no 100 seat lecture halls in any of the top private schools ... like in Harvard or Cornell?</p>

<p>If you prefer LAC type environment, that is fine with me but don't think that the points you raise are only limited to public schools.</p>

94

<p>anzacday, you got Michigan's endowment per student right, but Rice's endowment per student wrong. Rice's endowment per student is $900,000, not $1.5 million. You may want to add the 2,100 graduate students to the total student body when calculating Rice's per/student endowment. It works better when you do!</p>

<p>Still, Rice's endowment is amazing to be sure. But Michigan's endowment per student is deceiving. Like any flagship state university, Michigan receives hundreds of millions of dollars in state and federal funding annually. $330 million in Michigan's case to be exact. A private university must have $20-$25 of endowment to generate each $1 a state university receives in state funding. That's because universities can only spend 4%-5% of their endowment's worth annually. In other words, a private university must have an endowment of $6.6-$8.3 billion to generate the $330 million that Michigan receives from the state annually. That's in addition to Michigan's $7.1 billion endowment. A private university would require an endowment of $14-$15.5 billion to be in Michigan's financial situation. Otherwise said, Michigan operates like a private university with an endowment per student of $340,000-$380,000. That's comparable to Cornell ($270,000 per student), Columbia ($300,000/student), Penn ($330,000), Brown ($400,000) and Chicago (430,000). And what do you make of schools like Johns Hopkins, Carnegie Mellon and Georgetown? They have endowments per student of $150,000, $100,000 and $75,000 respectively. Those universities must be lacking too I suppose?</p>

<p>And even if the state's future is uncertain, the University of Michigan's future seems unaffected. Michigan's economy and population have been steadily declining for close to 40 years. And yet, in the last 20 years, the University of Michigan's endowment has grown by 2,700%. In that same period, only 5 other universities' endowments grew by more than 1,000%, and none by more than 1,500%. Rice's endowment only grew by 500%. Besides, most companies that recruit on the Michigan campus are not from the state of Michigan. That's because Michigan has a very strong national appeal.</p>

<p>Did I hear you say that Michigan has a "chancellor". And yet you claim that you know Michigan well eh? Michigan has a president. And Lee Bolinger did not leave Michigan because of any quality issues. He turned down a couple of very enticing offers while being president of Michigan. At one point, he was considered one of the front-runners for the Harvard presidency. However, being president of Columbia, his own alma matter, was an offer he could not refuse...and they did not require a dead horse to build their case!</p>

<p>Michigan's mean SAT is not 1200, it is 1320. Obviously, that's still not as high as many of its private peers, but do keep in mind that Michigan does not report superscored SAT results. Michigan's mean ACT score is 29, compared to 30 or 31 at most elite private universities. </p>

<p>As for your statement that "hordes of nameless students rounded up into 500 seat lecture halls, grading and discussion sections the responsibility of GSAs... these are not to sought in undergraduate education." You have described what some Freshmen go through, although I am not sure there are any halls large enough to seat more than 350 or 400 students at Michigan. But then again, Freshmen at many of the country's elite universities must contend with those unfortunate conditions. Maybe not 350 or 400 students, but 150 or 200 students. But once students get past their Freshman year, classes tend to be quite small. Most intermediate and advanced level classes actually have fewer than 30 students and are taught exclusively by full time professors.</p>

<p>Finally, Michigan's campus may not be beautiful, but it is impressive and easy on the eyes. Some areas, like the Law quad, the diag and North Campus are very pretty. The arboretum is gorgeous. The football stadium and university Hospital are very impressive to say the least. And I cannot imagine what the new Business school is going to be like, but it should be amazing.</p>

<p>You should give more credit to one of America's finer universities. Denigrating Michigan does not strengthen your argument and does not reflect well on you.</p>

<p>At any rate, good luck to you at Rice. It is one of the best universities in the country. I am sure you will love it there.</p>

95

<p>Hey Alexandre, </p>

<p>I think your math might be a tad questionable. You must realize that very few institutions generate enough money from their endowments to cover their operating costs. The situation you're describing doesn't account for tuition, research grants, donations that go not to the endowment, but to specific departments or specific construction projects. Michigan, as I'm sure you know, has a very low Alumni giving rate. </p>

<p>Did I get the numbers for Rice wrong... Shame on me for using Wikipedia, I guess. This 2,700% figure is impressive... but didn't UM just sell of its health care system? Surely such self-cannibalization accounts from some of the endowment gain. </p>

<p>It's foolish to suggest that UM won't be hurt by the state's decline. If you have no tax base, you can't well get that luscious $330 million/year can you? </p>

<p>If you ask me, you should just go private. Prop 2 was outrageous and, besides, only rich people can afford to go to Michigan anyway. I read that the average family income of a UM undergrad is over $100,000.</p>

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<p>Why is everyone neglecting to include University of Washington? It's at least a top 5 public.</p>

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<p>"I think your math might be a tad questionable. You must realize that very few institutions generate enough money from their endowments to cover their operating costs. The situation you're describing doesn't account for tuition, research grants, donations that go not to the endowment, but to specific departments or specific construction projects. Michigan, as I'm sure you know, has a very low Alumni giving rate."</p>

<p>Yes and no. Although not complete interchangeable, endowments and state funding are both used to help fund a university's cost of operation. Michigan has a low alumni giving rate but a high alumni domation amount. And Michigan endowment is growing rapidely thanks to the way the university is investing its money. Schools only receive $50 million to $300 milion from alumni donations annually. Wealthy universities' endowments grow by more than a billion dollars annually.</p>

<p>"...This 2,700% figure is impressive... but didn't UM just sell of its health care system? Surely such self-cannibalism accounts from some of the endowment gain."</p>

<p>No, Michigan did not sell off its health care system. If anything, it is expanding it. Michigan's growth in endowment has been steady and has nothing to do with "selling off" any of its parts!</p>

<p>"It's foolish to suggest that UM won't be hurt by the state's decline. If you have no tax base, you can't well get that luscious $330 million/year can you?"</p>

<p>Michigan is taking the necessary steps to distance itself from the state financially. As it is, its own endowment on a per capita basis is higher than all but 20 or so private research universities (LACs not included). Its wealth is already on par with the likes of Johns Hopkins, Boston College, Tufts, etc... At the rate Michigan is growing its endowment, in the next decade or so, only a hand full of private research universities will have siignificantly higher endowments per capita. </p>

<p>"If you ask me, you should just go private. Prop 2 was outrageous and, besides, only rich people can afford to go to Michigan anyway. I read that the average family income of a UM undergrad is over $100,000."</p>

<p>Going private might be difficult because it would irrevocably alter the university's image. But gaining financial independence is something all universities should strive for.</p>

98

<p>Michigan sold M-Care to Blue Cross Blue Shield, man, that's just a fact:
M-CARE</a> Update</p>

<p>I don't think it's as easy as planning ahead, you know. Think of like this:</p>

<p>As the state continues to depopulate, UM will need either to increase tuition or be diminished academically, right? Most of the top students who enroll at UM do so because they live in the state of Michigan and don't want to pay twice as much to go to Cornell, Wash U, etc. If the state cuts funding would the University continue to offer reduced tuition rates to in state students... I don't think so. The school would face a huge brain-drain. </p>

<p>Michigan might not have "a decade or so" to get its financial house in order. When Detroit goes into receivership (which it will) the state of Michigan will be finished. The auto industry is hemorrhaging jobs and money... When the Oakland County millionaires leave the state, who's going to donate?</p>

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<p>Anzacday, the hospitals, doctors, nurses etc... all belong to the University. And it is expanding the construction of its physical plant to include new, world-class additions. I am not sure what selling M-Care (the University's medical insurance plan) for a few million dollars has anything to do with the University Medical complex or the University's 20-years of steady and consistant growth in endowment.</p>

<p>At any rate, like I said above, Michigan's population and economy have steadily declined over the last 4 decades and the University of Michigan has not suffered as a result. But even if your doomsday scenario were to materialize, and state funding were to completely disapear, Michigan will adapt to its new reality and remain one of the top 20 universities in the US. </p>

<p>Besides, universities like Boston College, Carnegie Mellon, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins and Tufts seem to be managing just fine with smaller endowments per student than Michigan.</p>

<p>Furthermore, Michigan does not advertise, it does not throw money at students and it still manages to attract qualified students by the thousands each year. </p>

<p>A university that has been one of the pillars of higher education for close to two centuries will not just simply fold.</p>

100

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Did I get the numbers for Rice wrong... Shame on me for using Wikipedia, I guess.

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<p>Do all Rice ugrads use wikipedia for facts? Nice job man. </p>

<p>Rice is known in the south, if that (I'll give you texas). Outside of the deep south Rice is just a food, sorry man (I don't even go to UM).</p>

<p>Last time I checked UM still places people in IB/consulting/law at a higher rate than those @ rice.</p>