How do we deal w/ this teacher who wrongly "counseled" our S

Parents Forum
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<p>Our S is a junior in HS. He is very quiet and NEVER gets into ANY trouble at school. He is very self-motivated about his grades (straight A's). He does care about his grades but is NOT someone who frets over every point that gets deducted from a paper. </p>

<p>After Xmas, he got a new English teacher (a touchy-feely poetry PhD). Recently, this teacher took him aside and told him that she is worried about him because he reminds her of two students that she once had. One student had a nervous breakdown and can only do menial jobs and the other went to college and got drunk at frat parties and is now disfunctional.</p>

<p>This "talk" greatly disturbed our son. He feels that his teacher thinks that he is going to be a failure in life. We have spoken to two licensed therapists and they were both appalled that a teacher would so bluntly say such a thing to a minor child. (She did not have our permission to "counsel" our 16 year old kid). The therapists said that she is NOT qualified to make such assessments (which is why schools HIRE people who ARE!!!) Both therapists insisted that her words were potentially VERY damaging -- could lead to further stress, could lead to depression or further depression, or even suicide (in some cases - and since she doesn't "know" our son very well, she didn't know whether our s would be such a kid.) The fact that she had not done any kind of "assessment" of our son and had not taken into account his "personality" (quiet, sensitive) is further proof of her lack of qualifications to counsel. "Tread lightly" are the words one therapist used with us when she described the technique that therapists use whenever they need to address this kind of concern. Obviously this teacher was clueless about such methods.</p>

<p>We had a meeting last week with this teacher, the principal and the ass't principal. THey all insisted that this teacher's experience as a teacher "qualifies" her to make such statements. (Then why doesn't the state give her a license??????) Our position is that if she felt that our S was under "grade stress" that she should have contacted US - his parents. (After all, she had NO IDEA of whether we were already seeking professional help for our son (we aren't but she didn't know that). We are VERY angry that the school is "locking arms" and defending the indefensible. This is a CAtholic school and we will go to the diocese and insist that teachers be told that they CANNOT "counsel" kids about such matters without parent permission.</p>

<p>The principal kept repeating that the "teacher's intention was good". SO WHAT!!!! All kinds of adults do bad things to kids even tho their "intentions were good." The teacher is blaming our son for not understanding her message. IT IS HER responsibility if her words were not perceived well by our son. Our son is a CHILD - she is an ADULT!!! (one who thinks 'way too much of herself" just because she has a PhD in poetry and studied under Maya Angelou -- SO WHAT!!! Ms. Angelou did not teach her how to counsel kids because Ms. Angelou is not qualified to counsel kids either!!!!!)</p>

<p>What do you think??? What do you think we should do? Thanks for any and all advice.</p>

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<p>Wow, what a mess! I'm really surprised that the administration took such a stance -- I think that this teacher was completely out of line and I would be as upset as you are. However, you now have two options as I see it. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Transfer your son to a different school. This is what I'd call a "nuclear" option, and I'd do everything to avoid it.</p></li>
<li><p>Keep your son in the school, and have him talk to a licensed therapist. When my kids were young, I typically "sided" with the school if there was an issue, since I thought it was important to present a seamless interface between home and school. As they got older, I didn't feel that this was as important, and when the adult was wrong, I told my kids what I thought. In this case, I'd bring the situation up over a family dinner, and tell my son that (although we usually respect teachers etc) this teacher is an idiot. He should just do what he needs to do to be successful in her class, and should disregard everything else she says. He should continue to be respectful, but I'd point out that she probably has mental health issues herself in order to behave in such an inappropriate way. I'd point out that it's disappointing that the administrators also are mishandling the situation, but that sometimes there are unfair events in life that we just have to deal with. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>I'd probably end up trying to make a joke out of the situation, while being sensitive to how my son reacted. Humor helps a lot in most cases, and it may serve to minimize the impact of her bizarre remarks. I'd continue to support his self esteem by pointing out all of his wonderful qualities, and also point out that she doesn't know him well enough to make such comments. No one can forsee the future, and we all have the opportunity to make our own. Good luck and I hope you'll let us know how things work out!</p>

<p>P.S. I also have a son who was very quiet, focused and probably labeled "shy" in high school. He is now a very happy, outgoing freshman at Dartmouth -- I'm sure your son has a wonderful future ahead of him. Many bright, gifted people are introverts, and that's not such a bad thing. (coming from a true extrovert!)</p>

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<p>What if you asked one or both of the licensed therapists you consulted to talk to or write to the principal?</p>

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<p>sjmom and Adad</p>

<p>Thanks for your words. </p>

<p>We don't want to move him since there are no other Catholic High schools in the area (this is the south) and since he is almost a senior, he will want to graduate with his friends. </p>

<p>One (if not both) therapists are willing to put their opinions in writing (one already did). </p>

<p>I agree with telling S to do the work assigned and ignore anything else that this (moron) teacher says. (My S has had WONDERFUL teachers at this school and I'm sure THEY would be also appalled that this one teacher said such things to our S).</p>

<p>We do get annoyed when schools take this "united" stance and ignore that we are paying customers. Because colleges prepare teachers to teach in public schools, some educators that end up in private schools seem to forget that schools are not "jobs programs" for adults. (We have told the principal in the past that one reason why the school loses up to half of the class by the time that the kids are juniors is because the school has forgot its "mission" (to provide an education for kids) and instead has become a "jobs program" for adults (this was said after it took him OVER 2 years to fire a chemistry teacher who REFUSED to teach after her divorce. The principal was more interested in providing a job for this teacher then being concerned that all of her students were NOT getting an education in Chemistry. Public schools can get away with doing this, but not schools that are charging parents thousands of dollars in tuition. Tuition charging schools need to convince parents EVERY year why parents should continue writing those big checks each month.</p>

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<p>JLauer-- I understand your anger 100% but I think you're letting your issues with the school get in the way of your only priority right now.... your son. Who cares about how the principal manages or doesn't manage the staff? Who cares about how teachers in private schools get away with stuff they couldn't in public schools? If you've decided to keep your son in this school, you need to let go of all of that and circle the wagons around your kid.</p>

<p>1-- you need to find out if this is still bothering your son, or if he's just getting caught up in your anger. If he's already moved on, so should you.
2-- I'd keep him in counseling for now .... always good to have a non-Mom or Dad person in a teenagers life to hash things out, especially if the school isn't being 100% supportive.
3-- I'd work hard to make sure I'm not giving my kid a mixed message, i.e. "we don't care about your grades but we love you a tiny smidgen more when you bring home A's than if you were bringing home B's." I'm not saying you do this..... but I see many parents who get defensive when someone from school picks up on some tension or anxiety that a kid is having over grades, and if you got defensive over this (the issue, not the way the teacher communicated, or the fact that the teacher lacks a counseling license) you may want to think through your communications with your son.</p>

<p>The fact that you pay tuition is, quite frankly, irrelevant. Public school teachers say moronic things to kids all the time, and they've got huge and powerful unions to protect them. Worry about your child, and let all this other stuff go. He's graduating in a year....</p>

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<p>I am a Catholic school administrator and a parent of kids who went all through Catholic schools, You find good and bad teachers in all systems. My suggestion is to focus first on your son, make sure he knows he is ok and he will encounter all kinds of people in life, some with misguided advice. As long as you , the therapists and your son know he's fine, move forward. </p>

<p>Second, put in writing that you want your son transferred out of the class and why, if your son is comfortable with that. State your reasons in the letter, trying to keep emotions at bay. Focus on the affect on your son and less accusatory. Again the goal is to make sure your son feels comfortable in school and with his education.</p>

<p>Third, it is extremely difficult these days to fire anyone. The most important thing you can do is help the administration document events, that is where your letter is important. Even though the admin. is taking a stand with the teacher, they may be building a case or at least starting a file on this teacher. </p>

<p>Remember to stay focused on your son and his success and not on getting the teacher fired. That energy may backfire on your son at school, especially if his peers like the touchy feely poetry teacher.</p>

<p>My S went through some similar situations with a Catholic school teacher and now my S is a TA in a Catholic school and will eventually make a wonderful teacher because he knows "what not to do".</p>

<p>Good luck and know that your son will be fine and eventually the teacher will be exposed if she continues with this behavior. High school students have a way of keeping teachers in their place!</p>

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<p>As I read the OP, I thought, I could have written that. Something very similar happened to D when an English teacher made a wrong assumption and said things totally out of line (and shocking) to other teachers, administration, my D, and myself. Part of it was based on something D had written--the teacher saw "symbolism" in it. I was aware of what D had written--I had edited it before she turned it in. </p>

<p>We had a big meeting with admin and teachers. My daughter had been seeing a licensed therapist (to help her deal with something that had happened in our family) I brought a letter. I got no where. It was suggested that I really didn't know because I was her mother. This has damaged D emotionally. The teacher's assumptions (she made a medical diagnosis) were based on her personal experience with her own daughter. </p>

<p>My daughter continues to see the licensed therapist. I spend a lot of time talking with D. </p>

<p>The teacher was right about noticing a change in D, but came to the wrong conclusion. (And D was already seeing the professionals she needed to see)</p>

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<p>Blossom: I totally agree. I just mentioned the other issue to explain the frustration that the admin just "circled the wagons" and acted as if they could not understand why we didn't like what this teacher said to our S. The school has a history of "circling the wagons" and ignoring valid concerns (the non teaching chemistry teacher) that are brought to their attention.</p>

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<p>JC:</p>

<p>Unfortunately, this teacher is the only teacher that teaches Junior English. So there isn't another teacher to transfer to.</p>

<p>WE aren't trying to get the teacher fired. ALL we wanted was for her to apologize to our son for her words. SHE REFUSED and the admin said that she doesn't have to apologize since she is an "expert" teacher and therefore qualified to say such things.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t be that concerned about your son’s self-esteem because he likely gets a lot of that from you. And you seem to think very highly of him, not just as a child, but as a developing person. If the boy is solid mentally, and your relationship with him is close enough so that you know where he is, I wouldn’t worry about him in the least. And I would not get too weird about this by treating it as a major attack against his mental health. I mean, you know the kid is gonna take hits that are a LOT worse than this. So he may as well learn now how to deal with them. If I was in your position, I’d just teach my son how to stand up under this.</p>

<p>If I were Catholic, I’d try to see my priest with the boy. I’d do this for two reasons: 1. a close and trusted third party can often help negotiate stuff like this, even if the priest can’t give specific solutions, 2. it will show the boy the usefulness of priests so that in the future, the kid will go by himself when he is in a pinch.</p>

<p>After this, I would meet with the teacher to try to see why she thought as she did. Maybe she isn’t a therapist, but maybe she has some natural sensitivity to these things that could be useful to me.</p>

<p>Now I suspect this teacher is just a highfalootin' windbag who has some axe to grind against your son. I suspect this because had she really been interested in the boy’s welfare, she would not have gone to him. She would have quietly approached you and tried to work with you for the benefit of your boy. But, maybe, just maybe she DOES have the boy’s welfare at heart and stumbled here for lack of experience. In every case, I would ask that in the future the teacher would come to me first. But I’d try to discover what the deal is here before lashing out.</p>

<p>At this point, my concern would be that the teacher has some sort of bias against my son that will influence her grading and general ability to teach him. If your relationship with the teacher is now very antagonistic, it could be she will use every chance she can get to lash out against you through grades, withholding opportunities, or just bad treatment of the boy. I hate to mention this, but you may have to leave the school. Maybe not. You will know the answer when the time comes. </p>

<p>Teachers are just people, and people can be real dogs to one another. So above all, I’d try to get my son to see exactly what is going on here, and help him not to grow bitter in it. No need for him to trade bitterness for bitterness when kindness will serve as a much more powerful weapon.</p>

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<p>I don't think I would ask for an apology. That exacerbates the confrontational nature of the event and drags it out, to the detriment of your son. Your son already knows that the teacher was wrong.</p>

<p>I think I would stick with the letters from the therapist(s). I have in mind that the letters stating a professional view that (1) teachers are not trained or qualified to offer medical or psychological diagnoses, (2) that professional therapists offer such opinions only after private consultation with a child and parents, not on the basis of casual observation or by analogy with previous students in a classroom setting, (3) the offering of diagnoses or prognoses by nonprofessionals, such as this teacher, directly to a student can be extremely harmful to that student, (4) therefore neither this teacher nor any other teacher or administrator is permitted to offer medical diagnoses or prognoses to your son, and (5) any concerns that a teacher may have about your son should be shared privately with you.</p>

<p>This should make it crystal clear to the principal that such behavior is out of bounds, regardless of his/her personal feelings about the matter.</p>

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<p>I would not ask for an apology from the teacher either. It will only serve to aggravate the teacher. There are teachers who demean students in public and private schools, and 9 times out of 10, the admin. will stick up for them, and ofcourse, "your child misunderstood what was said". Hopefully your child has enough self-confidence to know that the teacher is a jack*** and should laugh it off with your help. I always tell my kids to "read" their teachers, and play up to their expectations.</p>

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<p>jlauer, It's outrageous that your son had to go through that. IMO, it's possible that the principal knows full well that the teacher was wrong, but is not willing to admit it.. Maybe the school wants the freedom from those kinds of constraints, to be able, for example to counsel kids over issues as they see fit.</p>

<p>The principal seems to be talking out of two sides of his mouth. On the one hand he says that the "intentions" of the teacher were good, implying that the message was not. On the other hand he insists that the teacher's experience qualifies her to make these statements. Again, reading between the lines, it may not be the statement per se that the principal is defending, but the right of the teacher to make it. Explaining this to your son may help.</p>

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<p>I wouldn't ask for an apology either. It seems to me that the teacher does not like kids who take their studies seriously and are smart. There is always someone out their trying to knock these kids down a peg or two. It is just rotten for a teacher to say things like that to a kid. What is her motivation? I very much doubt that it is to <em>help</em> the kid, or that she is <em>worried</em> about him. Bothered by his seriousness, more likely.</p>

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<p>Your son can learn a good lesson from this, which is certain people's opinions matter and certain people's do not. I wouldn't be surprised if every person you know has had a teacher say something to them some time in their school career that was inappropriate. I tell my kids not to be rude and just do what you have to do to get what you want out of this teacher and move on! Some teachers think they know everything about everything. They don't. If they did they probably wouldn't be teachers! Lets face it if you know everything about everything you can make alot more money doing something else. Teachers are humans that make mistakes. It sometimes helps in life to let things slide off your back.</p>

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<p>I sympathize - I've had a fair amount of people say really cruel things to me in my life because I'm an introverted/ambitious/perfectionist type. It hurts - even in my adulthood, it really gets to me when people say that I'll be a failure because I lack the emotional capacity to deal with life. (This happens on a non-infrequent basis.) It doubly hurts because I try to be sensitive to people around me and to my own emotions. Top that all off with a very healthy dose of ambition, and people have been predicting the psych ward for me for decades. </p>

<p>First of all, almost everyone who has said stuff like that to me or about me is on a complete power trip. There have been people who have been worried about me, but they don't degrade me (to my face or to others) by saying that I need counseling or that I'm going to be a failure; they approach my friends or family and ask if everything is alright - their caring is apparent and makes me realize that I'm loved. Then there are the power trip people - the, "Aries is going to need therapy when she's older; she's wound up way too tightly," or "You keep everything locked up inside. You can't deal with the world." (Latter is what a family member said to me immediately following my grandmother's death - because I had the nerve to be upset!) I've been underestimated my entire life - and let me tell you, there is a certain joy to proving really arrogant people wrong. :)</p>

<p>On a constructive note, it has been wonderful when my friends or family has defended me to these meddlers; my mom once told someone who predicted that I would be a drug addict/psychopath (because I was really really quiet and sensitive) that I would be fine - she told this person a story about when I was a kid and told off my grandfather - my mom has been terrified of him all her life, and I was this little squirt who was fearless. She then told this person that I might look like I defer to authority, but I think what I want to think and do what I want to do. There's something to be said for someone standing up for you, not just your rights. No matter what, you should tell this woman that your son is a very balanced, insightful young man.</p>

<p>Power trip thing - all I can tell you and please tell your son that. If this woman were "all that," she wouldn't be teaching high school; she would take her snazzy Ph.D. to a Catholic college and teach, publish, and get tenure. Fact is, snazzy Ph.D. or not, she's trying to take down a young man who (from your description) has amazing potential - not just in his career, but in his personal life. It's not about his welfare; it's about her. Trust me on this one. It will be good for your son to realize early on that there are a lot of people whose problems with him (or with others) don't stem from anything he did or the person he is; it's all about that other person's inadequacies. "Is her, not you" is a message that can be very helpful to those serious types who will take a lot of things to heart.</p>

<p>On a side note, I know some very bright people who don't want the career track. It kills me that it's okay for Miss Maya Angelou Ph.D. to not be on the track to success, but her friend who works menial jobs is a nutcase. Anyway... please let your son know that if he's a stay-at-home dad or the next Bill Gates, you'll still love him. </p>

<p>Finally - about the school - this woman has to be certified by the state, right? There's also common-law tort lawsuits and pulling your son out of school. Go in with all guns and tell them that you have no problem pulling your son out and throwing a lawsuit against the school (it's called bluffing if you aren't the type for either) if Miss Ph.D. doesn't back off. Might be worth it to have therapists contradict what she said; theoretical debates about her "qualifications" go in circles, but going in with hard evidence will get you somewhere. Make it in their best interests to not lock arms with her.</p>

<p>If there is a higher authority (well, not God, because He usually doesn't get involved with this stuff - 'tis not a Monty Python skit) - bishop or other person who oversees the school - try talking to him. School administrators like to think that they are tops (in their little ponds), but there's almost always someone who is in charge of them, although that person might not take part in the day-to-day operations of the school.</p>

<p>This was a long post. Anyway - stick to your guns, tell your son that she's full of it and that sensitive young men are rare, wonderful people, and good luck.</p>

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<p>Okay, I am going to take another tack here...</p>

<p>This was one conversation, one really bad conversation, but one. One person told him some personal opinion that he might not do well in life. But, aren't many others telling him otherwise? Don't many others see his goodness, his potential, his worth? If they do, he needs to remember that, and not let a few harsh words one time do so much damage and hurt.</p>

<p>You need to think about this, and think about it hard:</p>

<p>Why was the reaction of your son so deep? So lingering? So damaging? </p>

<p>One conversation with an insensative teacher should not illicit that kind of deep hurt. </p>

<p>I think you have done enough. You have said what you need to. If the teacher continues the attitude, then do more, but right know, what you are doing is taking some insensative remarks, and bringing all that out. A=You have done that.</p>

<p>If you go to the Diocese, you will have to defend how your son is, his natural personallity, and that may not be the best thing for your son. If he feels "different' already, this can make the situation worse.</p>

<p>Not fair, sure, but you need to see what is best for your son's mental health. </p>

<p>Another issue, sometimes teachers will talk to a child to get a sense of what maybe going on, and sometimes, with a good teacher our counselor, they can help as the student may be more willing to talk to them WITHOUT the parents, who jump in all the time.</p>

<p>Again, I don't like what the teacher did. BUT, i think you need to look at your son's reaction to one conversation. </p>

<p>Its like a bully, if your kid is bullied, you don't blame the kid who was bullied, but you do give them tools to handle it, at least emotionally.</p>

<p>You son is going to get rejections, harsh words, critisicsms his whole life, like the rest of his peers, he needs to figure out how to handle it.</p>

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<p>Okay, why put down all highschool teachers, many are very good, love what they do, like molding young minds...my mom taught hs, and my Ds have some great HS teachers at theiur Catholic HS and in fact, are "all that"</p>

<p>Denigrating a profession of caring people is not fair.</p>

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<p>Great post Citygirlsmom! I see it your way.</p>

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<p>If I recall correctly, you've had several problems with your sons' school. Although the older one may want to spend his last year there, have you considered finding a different school for the younger one?</p>