How do we deal w/ this teacher who wrongly "counseled" our S

Parents Forum
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<p>I think that at the very least, the school should adopt the policy that if a teacher has a concern about a child, he/she should address the parents with their concern, not the child. </p>

<p>Telling a child she knew of a student 'like them' who comitted suicide is irresponsible and potentially harming. At least the parent would have the ability to weed out an insensitive, but possibly 'well meaning' concern.</p>

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<p>I am not so sure about the teacher talking directly to the parents thing all the time. Some parents SHOULD NOT be brought into some issues. Some issues, and I am not talking about this one at all, but some issues are from the home, and bringing in parents could do more damage in some cases.</p>

<p>The school counselor should be involved.</p>

<p>I think the teacher should have spoken to the students counselor if she was so concerned. And the counselor, who has the experience and a history of knowing the students would have set the teacher right.</p>

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<p>gee, I feel for you in this one since all the air would have cleared if the teacher could have simply apologized for exceeding her boundaries and making intrusive assessments without the qualifications. A simple "what was I thinking!?" would have done wonders to help you move on.
I worked for many years as a licensed therapist. Therapy is meaningless without an oral contract between counselor and client, and the subject matter covered in sessions takes time to explore and negotiate..which is called Problem definition...a process that is joint and sometimes more of an art than a science. (hmm, I guess you all are wondering when your son made a "contract" with this adult for counseling?) The client has a big role in defining the territory addressed in counseling hours.<br>
This interaction had none of the components of a legitimate attempt at counseling.
Another concept to consider is the attribution theory concept. In this case, what content are you giving to her motives for this inpromptu sharing blunder? I would tend to attribute it this way: she was merely a person with poor boundaries and who extrapolates from her past inappropriately. She has power as an adult authority figure who is in charge of one of your son's courses that makes the equation of her blunder more egregious since your son is of course a minor in her care in class. However, I wouldn't continue to put a lot more emotion in this. Many adults are intrusive and come to wrong conclusions and our children have to learn to navigate with faulty authority figures.
Should you consider having your son see a counselor, make sure that he has an investment in this process and he has something in mind to address.<br>
Also, I sometimes post a link to an article on Introversion and giftedness at Wm and Mary..because it addresses the mismatch that occurs with introverted gifted students and extroverted teachers at times. Many gifted students tend toward introverted personal styles which are hard for "talkative high contact" teacher personalities to read accurately. My son is a bit shy and reserved and really saw himself in this article in a way that was de-pathologized..shyness can be seen as a negative in the classroom too often.
In general, I agree with blossom's post for common sense and for the attitude toward this problem that is most productive for your family.<br>
I would not focus in the "damage" it caused your son. Instead, I would probably look at this as a teaching moment for your son who will soon be at university and dealing with a huge array fo new adults in classes and in the workplace. From this experience, you can demonstrate that young adults have boundaries that need respect and young adults should get counseling when they need it but counseling is something private, safe and negotiated with professionals who have standards of confidentiality. You can show him that sometimes adults are just plain loopy and inappropriate and it is OK to object.<br>
I think you made your point and should help him just keep moving forward past this.<br>
<a href="http://cfge.wm.edu/documents/Introversion.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://cfge.wm.edu/documents/Introversion.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>If you think I was bashing teachers, you missed the point. That happens frequently, but here we go:</p>

<p>This teacher brags about studying under Maya Angelou.
She has a Ph.D. - an uncommon credential for high school teachers.
More often, Ph.D.s teach college.
She denigrates someone who, "...had a nervous breakdown and can only do menial jobs."</p>

<p>Never hestitated to have an opinion on anything, and I still think this lady is on a power trip. She's known the kid for all of four months and says that he's going to be a psychological wreck - hello! Power trip from someone who thinks too much of herself and knows it. </p>

<p>I know some very bright people who teach high school - fair number of Ivy leaguers who teach or want to teach. Two of my closest girlfriends are going to take their Harvard degrees into the classroom. </p>

<p>Guess what - they don't sit around bashing people about being psychologically unstable. They know that they could "do more" but find a calling in teaching and have a passion for their subject. They have no need to brag about their educations, either. That does not mean, however, that no one with a great education who teaches is doing it for the wrong reasons. I'm sorry that you are unable to understand that concept - it's pretty straightforward. My guess is that Miss Ph.D. is "settling" by being a high school teacher, or doing it for some weird reason - but she's in that class of teachers who should not be in that position. </p>

<p>There are people in every profession who do it for the wrong reasons - money, because they couldn't do anything else, because their parents told them to, or because it's a power trip. There are also people in every profession who are in it for the right reasons. Just sayin that Miss "I'm so great" is probably "settling" for teaching for lack of other job opportunities - which is NOT a rare thing for people with English degrees!</p>

<p>If you take that to bash teachers, frankly, you are the one who needs a chitchat with someone.</p>

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<p>My, that was long. I felt you did bash teachers...sorry, and for a PHd to teach HS, why not? Some people LOVE teaching teens, they really do</p>

<p>Your defensiveness is interesting to say the least</p>

<p>My concern is withh the Parent and the Son...the parent seems to feel her son ws damaged by the interaction, and to be damaged so much by one interaction needs to be looked at</p>

<p>My Ds have both been bullied, both have had teachers who talked down to them, I have shared my concern with the school administration (this was all middle school stuff), but at the SAME TIME, I told my kids that everyday, from now, until we die, we will all deal with bullies, idiots, egoist, incompetence, know it alls, obnoxious people including coaches, teachers, classmates, other parents, bosses, co-workers, neighbors... and sometimes friends, and that the peter principle is thriving</p>

<p>And they will have loving caring people around them, loyal friends, some great teachers and bosses, and mentors, and coaches, and to hold on to the positives, and blow off the negatives </p>

<p>If it affects performance, involves discrimnation, hiring, grading, etc, stand up for yourself and take care of business, but don't let the dopes of the world take away your self worth and confidence...that is your own to keep </p>

<p>I told them that they need to make sure their own core is strong, is sturdy, and to not let others opinions, snide remarks, dengrating words shake them, rattle them, or linger.</p>

<p>I have told them they can stand up for themselves, but to not focus on what an idiot has to say. The world is not a nice place sometimes, and I sensitive person does not need to change how they are, being sensitive is wonderful, the world needs more quiet introspective people, but everyone needs to learn to let go of others bad words in order to survive and thrive. I am not saying accept it or agree with it, i am saying stand up for oneself, but not let it eat you up</p>

<p>PS
I am guessing that this teacher will be very careful with the students grades, as her actions have been brought into the forfront.</p>

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<p>"I told them that they need to make sure their own core is strong, is sturdy, and to not let others opinions, snide remarks, dengrating words shake them, rattle them, or linger."</p>

<p>Ideally, this is true. But is the <em>victim</em> of this behavior then responsible for the damage caused to them? Should the bully get off scott-free - no apology needed - able to give out free (you get what you pay for) advice next year?</p>

<p>I agree that the path of least resistance is to let things slide. Its certainly the most practical. But - whats that quote - all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.</p>

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<p>Is it something about Catholic high schools? The freshman D of a friend of mine who attends a Catholic all-girls high school was told by one of her high school teachers that he didn't think she was "college material." She was devastated--he considered it a method of encouragement--"I'll show you, Mr. X, who is or isn't college material."</p>

<p>Mother had a pointed discussion with the teacher, kid was assigned a new teacher and kid learned a lesson about how people's opinions can be off-base and shouldn't be taken as gospel truth.</p>

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<p>jlauer, i would concur w/ ADad. a letter w/ a copy to the Diocese is in order, if for no other reason than a paper trail. i would stick w/ the facts as you know them and avoid outrage (no matter how justified). </p>

<p>if things mellow out, the matter can be dropped. and while teachers are human too, this is a mistake that must be addressed for all involved. </p>

<p>as for your son, let him know that many very intelligent people have been on this same path & the smart thing to do is to forgive the teacher and remember to empathize w/ others who may find themselves in this position. very quiet intelligent students in hs most often become more vocal in college and beyond, bcuz when they speak intelligently, people don't say, "Huh?" remind him that people make mistakes all the time... something i'm quite sure he already knows!</p>

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<p>I agree with the sentiment of ohio mom's post - the OP is justified in standing up for her son, even if that ultimately does not lead to an apology or any action on the part of the administration. </p>

<p>I would also watch your son's graded performance in that class. Something similar happened to me in middle school, with the offending teacher ultimately taking out her "concern" for me by arbitrarily lowering my grades. It got to the point where we had to go over her head to the administration to get my final grade changed - she averaged two B's and two A's to a B, when the school's official four point grading scale averages that out to a B+. And yes, my middle school GPA was important - I was applying for a competitive HS the next year :p.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Why was the reaction of your son so deep? So lingering? So damaging?

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Try to keep in mind that a teacher is in a position of real authority. So, if you have a teacher dumping on a child like this teacher did, well, that kid likely will feel seriously hurt by it – especially if he is the sensitive sort. I don’t think it is something out of the ordinary to have this kid be really disturbed by this at all. Shoot. If I had a teacher tell me this stuff, even today, I’d probably get at least a little shaken up. For a few seconds there I’d have to ask myself “Am I really messed up? Am I gonna end up sleeping on a grate somewhere? Am I Ted Kozinski?”</p>

<p>After figuring out that I am in fact NOT Ted Kozinski, I’d just brush the thing off and conclude the teacher is crazy. But whew! It would get touchy for a bit there.</p>

<p>Also, while it is true that some parents are too irresponsible to just assume they should immediately be contacted, I think it is just wrong to take an assessment as serious as the one this teacher had, and then just dump it on a kid. I don’t have all the information here. But my goodness. I can’t find ANY case where this kind of thing would be advisable. Even if the kid had bad parents or no parents, I don’t see the usefulness in it. That is why I think this teacher likely has some sort of personal issue or hang-up here against jlauer’s boy. It could even be that the teacher dislikes jlauer herself and is using the boy to dig into her. It happens, and it is ridiculous.</p>

<p>And no, I don’t think this is just a Catholic school thing. It is a people thing. As a child, I had a similar problem in a public school, with a teacher who hated my guts for years. Come to think of it, I was pretty quiet and introspective too-- oddly enough. Hmmm.</p>

<p>But once again, as awful as it seems, I think this can be a real opportunity to help this kid learn how to deal with people rather than have this blow up into a national debate about teachers and psychology. We don’t wanna see jlauer’s kid’s sober mug on the front of Newsweek with the title “Are Teachers Wounding Our Kids?”</p>

<p>But if the teacher relationship is really acrimonious, it may be too late to fix anything. Just get that kid out of there as fast as you can. I hate this option, because I don’t like teaching a kid to run from difficulties. But sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do.</p>

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<p>IMO the strongly worded letter(s) from therapist(s) will be sufficient to make the point that the teacher's behavior should not be repeated.</p>

<p>Trying to extract an apology will not make that point IMO. In that case, it is simply parent versus teacher, and the administration has and presumably will continue to side with the teacher. Further, now that positions have hardened, any apology likely will come across an insincere and therefore will prolong rather than end the situation.</p>

<p>The letter(s) from therapist(s) provide professional direction that the administration and teacher disregard at their peril.</p>

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<p>Victim...um....My Ds were bullied, so in that respect they were "victims" it was awful, the mean girl thing</p>

<p>If you read my post, I in no way say do nothing and take it...I say stand up for your self</p>

<p>What I am emphasizing is that we can only control ourselves and our own emotions and our own reactions to things</p>

<p>if we choose to take into our heart, soul and very being what someone else says, that is on us</p>

<p>When did I say do nothing? I never said that...my posts are about empowering the "victim"- I stood up for my Ds with the school bullies and the bullying teachers, but AT THE SAME TIME, I worked with my girls to trust themselves, know that the bullies are worng and to say something, and to not let the words wound...</p>

<p>My concern is for the children, we as parents should stand up for them, and take care of business, but we also have to help our children move on, not value their own self worth on what some other person says, to have faith in themselves, and believe in their own potential, regardless of something said.</p>

<p>That in no way says, blame the victim, where you got that, i have no clue, its says give the victim back their power, back their core, because no one can take that away from you, you can let someone take it away, you can let someone hurt you, you can allow someone to cause you emotional pain...</p>

<p>When a person hurts someone in anyway, that person is wrong, obviouslly. I never said it wasn't.</p>

<p>When my D was bullied, she didn't want to go to certain school functions because those girls would be there. And then my D would miss on some fun, and miss her other friends.</p>

<p>I told her she had to go, because otherwise those meangirls would win and my D would miss out on some good times. She did go, and while it hurt to see those girls, my D stuck with her friends, found others to hang with, and each week, it got easier and easier because she took back herself and her power and did not let those girls win. It was hard, no doubt about it, but she is the stronger and better person for it.</p>

<p>With the teacher, I did send in a very comprehensive letter to the principal and cc:d it to the diocese listing the various issues. So I am not saying do nothing. </p>

<p>I am saying it is our job as parents to teach our kids ways to deal with the idiots of the world, emotionally, because, in a few years, they will have to all on their own</p>

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<p>I can relate as well because I had a S who was good student but very quiet and some of his teachers just didn't understand him. (we also got a call from the counselor one time because other students were worried he might be suicidal --he has a very dark sense of humor) We actually were grateful to the school for that call and discussed the situation with him.) I think in this case the teacher was wrong for expressing her opinion to your son. It definitely should have been handled better. If her concern was truly for your son she could have called you or gone through the counselor's office (But in my experience counselors in CatholicHS may not be ready to handle problems) I agree with some of the previous posters that sometimes we need to use these situations as a learning experience for our children. Sometimes there are people who say things to you or treat you badly for no particular reason. We've all had that experience. Regarding the English class, if no other English class is available for your S at that school is ther any possibility of taking English at another school or even a Community College.</p>

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<p>There is a wealth of good advice here. Ctygirlsmom, I understand your point of view -- it's about teaching our kids to value themselves, without totally relying on the input of others. I don't think that means sitting around doing nothing, as a parent, but the first priority has to be with the young man. One thing I often say to my kids, from the title of a book by Richard Feynman is, "What Do You Care What Other People Think?"</p>

<p>I also concur with the advice to get something in writing from an outside expert to submit to the administration and teacher in question. You're not going to be able to do much to change the teacher's response at this point, but at least there will be documentation.</p>

<p>Finally, sometimes we DO just have to teach our kids to think critically about other people's comments. I understand a young person taking such bizarre comments to heart, but as a parent, we sometimes have to say something like, "Why would you think she'd know you better than you know yourself?" I have sensitive kids, and I'm the queen of sensitivity to others' comments, but I have had to learn the hard way to just not take everything to heart. This might be a good chance to help your son develop a little bit of a thick skin, just to protect himself.</p>

<p>And then, just in case there's a problem, I still think having him talk with a therapist, even informally, would be helpful.</p>

<p>But this will pass -- things do eventually blow over, if they are allowed to do so.</p>

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<p>Drosselmeier writes: <<<<i wouldn’t="" be="" that="" concerned="" about="" your="" son’s="" self-esteem="" because="" he="" likely="" gets="" a="" lot="" of="" from="" you.="" and="" you="" seem="" to="" think="" very="" highly="" him,="" not="" just="" as="" child,="" but="" developing="" person.="">>>> </i></p><i wouldn’t="" be="" that="" concerned="" about="" your="" son’s="" self-esteem="" because="" he="" likely="" gets="" a="" lot="" of="" from="" you.="" and="" you="" seem="" to="" think="" very="" highly="" him,="" not="" just="" as="" child,="" but="" developing="" person.="">

<p>Yes we do think highly of our son (as do all of his other teachers). But this teacher is an "authority figure" and when kids hear essentially an insult from an authority figure they will be affected by it (especially a shy quiet kid like him). </p>

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<p>I totally agree. Our son prepared himself for seeing her today. She misgraded one of his tests (she added the points up wrong) and our S had to show it to her today. I soon hear how that went (when he gets home from tennis practice). </p>

<p>D >>>>If I were Catholic, I’d try to see my priest with the boy. I’d do this for two reasons: 1. a close and trusted third party can often help negotiate stuff like this, even if the priest can’t give specific solutions, 2. it will show the boy the usefulness of priests so that in the future, the kid will go by himself when he is in a pinch. <<<</p>

<p>That is a good idea!</p>

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<p>We met with her last Friday. She claimed that she felt that he was under "grade stress" because <em>according to her</em> our son had raised his hand on the first day of her class (the day after Xmas break) and had asked how he could get an A+ in her class. We knew that that didn't sound like OUR kid and later found out that it was a GIRL in the class that asked that question (we know the girl and she verified that SHE was the one who asked the question!). </p>

<p>the teacher also blamed our son for "being a leader in the class" (a shy kid!!!) and that it is somehow HIS fault that other kids are complaining to her about grades! One girl "erupted" one day about the teacher's grading methods and had to be taken outside to the hall and teacher implied that MY shy son's attitude about grades has infected the others. (She told this part to my son and wouldn't admit it to us)</p>

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<p>I totally agree. She kept talking about her ed credentials (studying under Maya Angelou, etc) as if that has ANYTHING to do with this.</p>

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<p>We fear this but we know that the principal wouldn't want our son to leave the school. Our S is one of only 3 potential National Merit students and the school doesn't want to have to "give one up" to another school. If my S is enrolled elsewhere next fall when NMSF get announced then THAT school gets the credit in the newspapers.</p>
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<p>citygirlsmom: >>> Okay, I am going to take another tack here...
This was one conversation, one really bad conversation, but one. One person told him some personal opinion that he might not do well in life. But, aren't many others telling him otherwise? Don't many others see his goodness, his potential, his worth? If they do, he needs to remember that, and not let a few harsh words one time do so much damage and hurt.
You need to think about this, and think about it hard:</p>

<p>Why was the reaction of your son so deep? So lingering? So damaging?
One conversation with an insensative teacher should not illicit that kind of deep hurt. <<<</p>

<p>I think that you might be looking at it from an adult's perspective. If someone said that to us (say at work), we could "brush it off" as some whacko words. But kids are different. They do want "approval" from their teachers, their authority figures. The words have similar affect as when a parent compares one child to another child (or one child to someone else's child).</p>

<p>My son's other teachers are very loving and supportive and would be SHOCKED to find out that this new teacher has said these things to my s.</p>

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<p>ADAD writes: >>>>IMO the strongly worded letter(s) from therapist(s) will be sufficient to make the point that the teacher's behavior should not be repeated.</p>

<p>Trying to extract an apology will not make that point IMO. In that case, it is simply parent versus teacher, and the administration has and presumably will continue to side with the teacher. Further, now that positions have hardened, any apology likely will come across an insincere and therefore will prolong rather than end the situation.</p>

<p>The letter(s) from therapist(s) provide professional direction that the administration and teacher disregard at their peril. <<<</p>

<p>You are right. An apology would be "fake" at this point since she insists that she did nothing wrong. We will get the therapists letters to both the principal and the diocese and ask that a policy be put in place regarding making such or similar statements to students. </p>

<p>(I just remembered that my neighbor told me a few years ago that her Ds teacher (at a local public middle school) told her D that she would be a failure in life because she wore too much jewelry and too much makeup! </p>

<p>So.... I know this kind of stuff happens -- thankfully rarely!!! Most teachers are loving people who are also parents and know how kids will "hear" such messages!)</p>

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<p>Good heavens, NO. As you can see from the bottom of my post #37, this stuff happens (thankfully, rarely) in all kinds of schools. As a matter of fact, this is the first time THIS teacher has ever taught in a Catholic school. My entire family and H's family went to Catholic schools and none of us EVER had a teacher tell us anything negative like this. It is rare but can happen at any type of school.</p>

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<p>mstee, roske, aries, & sbmom:</p>

<p>Thanks.... wise words....wise insight....wise advice. Thanks.</p>

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<p>citygirlsmom: </p>

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<p>Certainly you are right. We must advise our kids on such matters..... But it's not enuf to just say those things to our kids and expect the words to "stick" and provide a perfect "buffer" to what they hear from others. I TOTALLY sympathize with anyone who has been "bullied" by classmates. Many adults can still painfully and tearfully recount "horror" stories from their school years. And when those words come from adults those words can cut deeper.</p>