How do we deal w/ this teacher who wrongly "counseled" our S

Parents Forum
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<p>i depart as heartbroken and upset as i arrived</p>

<p>but this i will say</p>

<p>bunch of overdramatic, semi-invisible parents.</p>

<p>you all the Artsy's teacher salary</p>

<p>LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL</p>

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<p>lazymom: There is no need to "come to the rescue of teachers". If you read the posts, you would see that no one is suggesting that many or most teachers are anything less than very caring and giving and loving individuals.</p>

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<p>talk about being "overdramatic"....</p>

<p>And, I have no clue what her last sentence means.</p>

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<p>well i see both sides to the story.
as both a mother and a retired teacher
but some of the postings i read where pretty accusatory and some generalized</p>

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<p>how much experience did this teacher have</p>

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<p>most likely the more experienced a teacher is, the more carefull he will be when dealing with kids</p>

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<p>well good luck
by the way
i think the principal is doing a good job, there is nothing worse that having an administrator who does not back up his teachers, it shows lack of unity whithin the faculty</p>

<p>i know you'd disagree but think about it</p>

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<p><<<< i'm only trying to come to the rescue of teachers, who are not all a bad influence in your children's life
some of us actually care a great deal </p>

<p>i think the principal is doing a good job, there is nothing worse that having an administrator who does not back up his teachers, it shows lack of unity whithin the faculty >>></p>

<p>I don't understand how someone could write that first para after I wrote that I think the following
Teachers:
EXCELLENT: 25%
Very Good: 25%
Good: 30%
Needs improvement: 10%
Needs a different career: 5%
Needs to retire: 5%</p>

<p>Why would you need to write the words "come to the rescue of all teachers" when I'm sure that the 80% that I've listed as good to excellent don't feel the need to be "rescued" at all. I also said that the 10% that "need improvement" just need some minor things "fixed" (such as being able to grade and return papers within a few weeks -- not 2-4 months like one of my kids' teachers --- yes, returning graded papers long after the marking period!).</p>

<p>And, I think the principal is doing a good job; he removed the teacher from my son's classroom. After hearing her words directly from HER, he realized that HER rendition was WORSE than what we had told him. (I already wrote this in an earlier post.) There is nothing worse than an administrator that "backs up" inappropriate behavior. We certainly don't want administators (or bishops or executives) backing up bad behavior just to have "unity". That is not only "false loyalty" but it eventually backfires (as the Catholic Church has painfully realized). Don't forget, the teacher gave "her side" of the story and it was worse than we had said! Yet, still you think the principal should have just blindly "backed up" the teacher? Mature, responsible and ethical adults do NOT "unify" to support bad behavior. </p>

<p>The fact that this teacher was removed is not an insult to all teachers. As a former teacher I KNOW that teachers talk amongst themselves about who are the "inadequate" or "lazy" or "inappropriate" teachers at their schools.</p>

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<p>I don't need to think about it either. If the action of a teacher is inappropriate, then the administration should act on that. If you want respect for the teaching profession, then it is necessary to deal with the poor teachers. If poor teachers are tolerated, then we will not see an improvement in the image of teaching.</p>

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<p>I will readily agree that unions are important to maintain a middle class in this country- however- just two cases
One teacher in my D school was abysmall- but the principal couldn't get rid of her because of seniority and the union.
She hadn't ever been given a classroom, because noone wanted her to be in charge of that many kids, ( she was the LAP instructor), but the principal had a bright idea ( this is what one of the head teachers told me) to give her a classroom, and take the chance that it would be too much for her and she would quit.
She did quit, but it took a couple weeks, and the kids had to put up with substitutes until a replacement was found. It shouldn't have to come to that to get rid of people
At my H workplace- there is one guy who has seniority and has gone from building to building much as in the school district, but no one will take him anymore.
My H shop really wanted to finally get rid of him( the guy not H), so they changed the job classifications that he shared with the others, and said that it was not going to be used anymore, but no one has offered to change his job classification.
He has worked there like 30 years, but doesn't do anything, but it is really hard to get rid of people once they are hired if they have seniority. Same with the school district, one of the worst principals I have ever seen, gloated when the teachers group along with parents declined to rehire her ( she was a temporary) and said that the principal union would make sure she still had a job.
She was right, they assigned her to another school, but those parents fought to get rid of her & now she is at the district level.
You wouldn't believe how many people that you wouldn't want in a school building, are now at the district level.</p>

<p>We now have a new administrator from Denver who is the chief academic officer for the district, and she sounds great, but she is going to have her work cut out for her "reassigning" some of these people who are just killing time until they retire.
The district should be about kids- it isnt a job placement program to keep sloppy educators off the streets</p>

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<p>Absolutely.... When principals blindly "stands up" for a teacher who has done something very wrong, then the school has lost sight of its primary mission -- to educate students. Instead, such a school has become a "jobs program" for adults. </p>

<p>A principal should try to look at a valid concern from a "neutral" perspective if he/she really wants to get a matter resolved. Otherwise, what does a principal mean if he says, "I have an open door policy. come to me if you have a concern. We are one big family here" If the school (teachers and students) really are one big "family" then there wouldn't be this "blind loyalty." When a principal blindly sticks up for a teacher or rule (that is obviously wrong), then he/she loses every student and parent's respect -- because he/she is no longer seen has an honest person. </p>

<p>I am the first one to say to parents that their complaint is not reasonable (such as the parent who complained that her K wasn't getting enuf "personal" attention. I told that parent that it is HER job to make her kid feel special -- not a teacher with 20+ other kids in the class!!! Or.... the parent who complained when a -0 was put on her child's paper - instead of a 100% (the mom thought the -0 was "too negative" -- oh brother!!!) Or.... the mom who got so upset when a note from a teacher had her unusual last name misspelled .... I could go on and on. I KNOW that there are nutty parents out there complaining about every little thing or every tiny mistake a teacher makes. Those parents need to be told "what's what!!!"</p>

<p>Blind loyalty only teaches that anything will be tolerated and there will never be any accountabilty. A principal who won't stand up for what is right cannot be trusted by teachers, either. If a teacher ever had a "run in" with the district, a teacher couldn't count on her principal for standing up for the "right thing" instead of having "blind loyalty" for the district.</p>

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<p>Sometimes school administrators blindly support their teachers. Sometimes parents make unreasonable demands and complaints, and accuse the school administrators of being biased and unfair if they don't "back them up". When I read the original post, I thought this was the latter case. After giving it a lot of thought (and reading all the posts from the parents who felt very strongly to the contrary) I realized that I was basing my assessment of the situation on how I thought my own kids, and those of their friends that I know well enough to have an idea about, would have reacted or responded to this teacher's comments. Obviously there are kids who are much more fragile than I was aware of, based on the posts of the parents who were very strongly critical of the teacher in the OP, and I can see that for those kids the teacher's comments would be off base.</p>

<p>So where you go kind of depends on where you start out. Should a principal defend a teacher against a complaint regarding her treatment of a student by assuming that the student in question is a regular, resilient kid? Or should the principal view every teacher-student interaction under the assumption that the student might be traumatized by a well-meaning if somewhat tactlessly stated bit of advice? Either approach is "blind". Either approach will be "right" some times, in the same way that a stopped clock is "right" twice a day. Sometimes the principal just honestly disagrees with the parent; sometimes the principal honestly disagrees with the teacher. Sometimes the principal changes his or her mind. We're all only human, after all.</p>

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<p>I have two friends--both in their 50s--who are still doing things because some high school teacher told them they'd never be a success at it--in one case, it's learning French, in the other case, it's writing fiction. They are fond of saying "X (Y) told me I couldn't do this, and look, I'm doing it." (We had harsh teachers at my high school. They told me I'd never be any good at French, too. And a college teacher told me not to ask stupid questions--in front of a lecture hall with 907 other students. I survived this.) </p>

<p>I think it's very sad that they put so much lifetime energy into being angry with a high school teacher. Every time I look at this thread, I'm inclined to say "Oh, for heavens sake, there will always be idiots out there. Move on." But then I remember that there are people who sue schools over remarks like those you describe, and get lots of $$ too.</p>

<p>The principal will have that teacher in his/her building much longer than you will have students there; you don't know if the principal has spoken privately to the teacher without informing you. </p>

<p>My advice: move on. It's one idiot on one day. There will be other idiots on other days.</p>

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<p>Kluge: >>>> o where you go kind of depends on where you start out. Should a principal defend a teacher against a complaint regarding her treatment of a student by assuming that the student in question is a regular, resilient kid? Or should the principal view every teacher-student interaction under the assumption that the student might be traumatized by a well-meaning if somewhat tactlessly stated bit of advice? Either approach is "blind". <<<</p>

<p>What you have described is the exact reason why the (now) three therapists have said that teachers/principals are not qualified to make a diagnosis or make a prognosis (which is what this teacher did). For this reason, caring educators need to "tread lightly" in these areas. Educators must keep in mind that a student may be "in treatment" for this reason or for something more serious (and the school won't know about it) so it's best to leave these things to those extensively trained experts. </p>

<p>Since even the most caring teacher/principal (that isn't a therapist) is not qualified to make the assessments needed to determine the "stability" of each student (a teacher can have as many as 100+ students at any one time), a teacher needs to bring any such concerns to the parents or to a school psychologist. If the teacher feels the need to say "something," it should only be something that is supportive, positive, neutral and/or not judgmental (such as, "I care about you, I enjoy having you as a student; Let me know if there is anything I can help you with."). </p>

<p>As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts..... When I had students that I thought were stressed over grades, I simply asked if there was something I could do to help them (tutor, give extra time for an assignment, give extra time to take a test, whatever it might take to relieve the stress) My suggestions could not hurt anyone's ego or self-confidence. I never suggested that a student's grade stress might lead to them becoming failures in life. If my concern was more serious, I would tell their parents. </p>

<p>So many times, when I was a teacher I would be informed that a family was going through a divorce (or some other stressful situation). I would always give extra time for assignments, extra tutoring (or whatever was needed) to help relieve any stress that school demands can add to the situation. But, again, I never would say anything that a child might think means that I am worried that they might become failures in life.</p>

<p>Lastly, we are glad that this chapter is over. The 3rd therapist was only recently involved because she is a relative who wanted to add "her 2 cents".</p>

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<p>I tried reading the whole thread but wow..it's long so I apologize if this has already been said but...Just because the principal seemd to side with the teacher in your presence doesn't mean that he didn't tell her he thought she was out of line. I've worked in schools for over 20 years and am yearly amazed at what inappropriate topics teachers discuss with students, gossip about other students, teachers, complain about the administration, etc. talk too much about their personal life, etc. This type of thing isn't hammered home hard enough or often enough in teacher training, faculty meetings, observations, evaluations, etc.</p>

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<p>Your comments reminded me of a teacher who once told her class of 8th graders that she might abort her baby if the tests showed abnormalities. I don't care if you are pro-life or pro-choice -- that is a subject that is tooooo private to "share" with a class of 8th graders </p>

<p>(And what if one of the students has a "special needs" sibling???? Would that child start thinking that their sibling should have been aborted?)</p>

<p>Maybe districts need to provide a "handbook" for teachers. Providing such a handbook is not "unprofessional" because MANY companies give their professionals handbooks which spell out some do's and don'ts. </p>

<p>I know some teachers will be insulted by this suggestion and proclaim, "we are professionals; we don't need a handbook" but in today's professional world, people are given handbooks.</p>

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<p>We are not the type "to sue" so that is not an issue. We just wanted her to apologize to our son. </p>

<p>my son is "over this". If you read his two postings, he clarifies some misconceptions on this thread. We are "over" it. I didn't post anything about this for days until someone "brought the thread back to life" and I posted some clarifications to the new posts. Plus, I (and a few others) "dealt with" a teacher who kept insisting that this thread somehow bashed "all teachers". </p>

<p>We aren't "dragging this out"; the teacher is not in my kid's class anymore (I think she also "cooked her own goose" when she began purposely leaving my son's name off of "roll call" in the morning after we first approached her about the comments. How weird is that? I forgot to mention that odd behavior earlier....). </p>

<p>(and, I don't think she will be "at the school long after my kids are gone")</p>

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<p>dmd77:
[quote]
But then I remember that there are people who sue schools over remarks like those you describe, and get lots of $$ too.

[/quote]
dmd - I'm a lawyer, and I have never heard of anyone getting one cent from a lawsuit over anything even remotely like this. What on earth do you base this statement on?</p>

<p>Jlauer95:
[quote]
What you have described is the exact reason why the (now) three therapists have said that teachers/principals are not qualified to make a diagnosis or make a prognosis (which is what this teacher did).

[/quote]
I guess if you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. I would have described it as a teacher making "an observation" and engaging in "conversation". diagnosis/prognosis/therapy - whatever happened to people just talking about things?</p>

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<p>//"If the parent isn't given ANY feedback from the principal that the concern is valid, it discourages parents (or students) from coming forward. A principal could say something like, "I understand your position and the teacher and I will discuss it further in private." At least that give the parent some kind of assurance that the concern has not be summarily dismissed as unwarranted."</p>

<p>I do agree with that statement.</p>

<p>//"Maybe districts need to provide a "handbook" for teachers. Providing such a handbook is not "unprofessional" because MANY companies give their professionals handbooks which spell out some do's and don'ts. "</p>

<p>//"I know some teachers will be insulted by this suggestion and proclaim, "we are professionals; we don't need a handbook" but in today's professional world, people are given handbooks."</p>

<p>Having worked in the education profession myself (teaching & consulting) for many, many years, & having raised 2 children in a couple of private schools, I have known more teachers than psychologists. However, among the many psychologists I have met (socially and professionally), I have heard many more inappropriate statements emanating from the mouths of psychologists than from the mouths of teachers. That is not statistically significant obviously, just my own anecodotal experience. Nor is it meant to imply exclusive membership in the foot-in-mouth club for either group of professionals. But it does lead me to conclude that, following jlauer's argument, psychologists need handbooks, big time. Then they need to read them & apply them & learn when (and to whom) to shut their mouths. (That wasn't referring to virtual-life necessarily -- i.e., posters -- but to real-life examples.)</p>

<p>kluge, LOL. ("I guess if you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.") Thanks for the morning laugh.</p>

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<p>Ditto Kluge (again). ITA about both the lawsuit and making an observation. </p>

<p>That isn't to say I don't think teachers have been known to make incredibly stupid comments, but I still do not think what this teacher did merits response or intervention from three psychologists. That just makes me shake my head.</p>