How do we deal w/ this teacher who wrongly "counseled" our S

Parents Forum
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Saying "I'm worried about you because you seem to take your studies so seriously. I had a student once who was like that in high school and he ended up getting drunk at fraternity parties in college*, " is hardly the equivalent of physically assaulting the kid.

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Thank you, Kluge. When I read the first 5 pages of posts, I could not figure out how people got from A (teacher expressing concern for student) with B (Sue the teacher for assault. Try to get her formally reprimanded. Try to get her fired.) I was reading a different interpretation into the words than the first 5 page of posters - the teacher was not "predicting" a future for the teen, but sharing problems two students had - students that had some similar traits to the teen. I don't see a "power trip", or an abusive bullying teacher - but that doesn't mean that I approve of how she handled it. Somewhere along the way, she failed to communicate in a positive manner with the teen. Okay, let the discussion continue. :)</p>

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<p>sorry, this might become the 'who's on first' of apologies if people once asked for an opinion now have to apologize for providing them about the teacher who did not apologize,...</p>

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<p>Jlauer, I'll take you up on not letting feelings from one post carry over to another. I don't remember the specifics, but I do recall feeling that you were being really unfair to me in another forum. Putting that aside, however, I think you've been completely right in this thread. I was outraged by the teacher's presumptuous and uncalled for involvement in your son's personal life. We wouldn't want a teacher practicing medicine without a license, she shouldn't be practicing therapy without one either. I would demand an apology and request a transfer (if that's what your son wants) to another class.</p>

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<p>I'm just curious - how many of you would object if a teacher had a student she felt was taking his studies too lightly, and she took him aside to tell him she was worried about him because she had had a couple of former students of a similar bent who ended up drinking too much at fraternity parties in college or doing "menial" jobs?" </p>

<p>Would that be similarly outrageous?</p>

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<p>kluge: yes, the teacher should not be making comments/implied prognoses to a student. So, yes, your proposed comment would also be inappropriate in my view.</p>

<p>Here is a quite plausible kid's view of what was apparently said: "My English teacher says that I am going to have a nervous breakdown." That probably is not exactly what the teacher said, but it can quite easily be what a kid hears.</p>

<p>The point about lightening up or getting more serious could be made without connecting a student to people presented by the teacher as failures.</p>

<p>"I would like to see you take your studies more seriously."</p>

<p>Maybe kids should not take these comments to heart. Maybe kids should be tougher, or more discerning about what to take seriously. But the fact is that some kids are tougher or more discerning than others. Some kids have issues outside of that particular classroom that the teacher is not privy to. Therefore, IMO a teacher has no business rolling the dice and seeing which type of kid she makes her comments to. And then blaming those students who are hurt for not being tough enough.</p>

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<p>Does the school have a board of directors overseeing the principal and the teachers? If so, I would go to them with the complaint. The principal should answer to someone. This teacher harmed one child, and if she gets away with it, will likely do the same thing to others. Not only should the board know, but so should the parents. Of course, to do so could further harm the child. Perhaps it could be done anonymously.</p>

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<p>I agree that the "lighten up" could be said without connecting it to kids who were psychological train wrecks. </p>

<p>A hypothetical: if I'm a teacher and, while pulling a kid aside for a chat, say the following things, "Your parents are really great people - also very talented; oh, nice job at the track meet yesterday; and, by the way, you really should be institutionalized. Not just therapy; if you're doing that, it's not doing any good. You're the biggest whack job I know, and, by the way, you're completely obese. You need to watch your weight."</p>

<p>IF that happened, the comments about the parents and the track wouldn't be the issue. It's the other stuff. Some of the parents on this board seem to disaggregate the conversation and pretend that the more mild comments make the whole thing okay. </p>

<p>As for being tough - that's one mentality to take, although I don't think it's very helpful. Funny how people ALWAYS seem to think that boys should be told to toughen up and let it slide, while it's okay for girls to be upset. </p>

<p>There is little worse than being told that you are psychologically unsound. Regardless of your grades, your family, your figure, your friends, your income, or your accomplishments, you have very little if your perception of the world is skewed - if you cannot trust your own psyche, you are in hell. Consider "A Beautiful Mind;" we can all imagine the torment that it must be to realize that your perception of the world does not conform to reality; that, despite intellect, health, and loving family, you don't even know what is real. Or that, regardless of intellect, sensitivity, kindness, and ambition, that you will fail. </p>

<p>That is why that teacher is so wrong. A challenge to one's sanity is a challenge, often, to that person's humanity. Teach your kids to be tough about the normal stuff - but that they should not stand for those who question their sanity.</p>

<p>There are times when things in my life have gone drastically wrong. I've had people tell me, quite cruelly, that I "need help." (Two of the people in question are currently on heavy amounts of psychotropic drugs themselves.) The idea is that I'm a deficient person for not handling all that life throws at me. There have been other people who have, quite kindly, suggested that I talk to someone. There is a night and day difference, both in presentation and intent, between, "You really need to get some help; you have serious issues," and "You're going through an incredibly tough time right now; I don't know how you do it. Would it be good for you to talk to someone? Just to get things off your chest? Rent-a-friend!" </p>

<p>IMO, the teacher did the first one. That's inexcusable. There is no reason for not being constructive about all this.</p>

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<p>"I am shocked that a principal would say that a teacher was within her rights to make such statements to a student. She is not qualified and neither is the principal - unless he is licensed to do so; hence the need for a license (If teachers/principals were qualified, why would schools hire school psychologists?). Also, no permission for such "couseling" was given by a parent.</p>

<p>The teacher did many things wrong. First she was making a diagnosis (diagnosing XXXX with the same mental issues as two of her previous students) without an assessment (I do not believe she did a psychosocial assessment and/or any depression inventories on XXXX or her two previous students! She has no idea if those previous students had other "issues"). Then she made this horrific prognosis. She basically made a prognosis without an assessment.</p>

<p>Any licensed therapist would know how damaging this teacher's words could be to a minor as well as an adult. Her words were inappropriate under any circumstance. How was this child suppose to take these words? We tell parents never to say such things to their kids as, "If you're not careful, you are going to end up like <strong><em>(some failure that the family knows)</em></strong>". This is no different. </p>

<p>First, as a licensed therapist whenever I have to make a "negative" statement to anyone many things must be done first (this teachers comment was even worse than a statement because it was said as if she had made a prognosis!). A therapist must assess the ego strengths of the person. A therapist does NOT make such a negative statement to someone that may have a fragmented ego. That could be VERY dangerous. A therapist must build trust with the person. The patient must know that you care for him/her. You must tread lightly. If not, several things could happen, 1) Depression can increase 2) Anxiety can increase 3) Many healthier patients will not come back 4) at worst, the person could commit suicide (this is why all therapists always error on the side of caution). "</p>

<p>Note: Obviously, XXXX is my son's name so I removed it.</p>

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<p>Emerald: </p>

<p>that story about the Xmas incident is just awful. I just can't believe that someone in the school community didn't think that those "gifts" were completely inappropriate and insulting. Even if one adult thought it was "ok" you would think that a few others would have stepped in and "corrected" the situation. </p>

<p>I think I can guarantee that anything that odd would not happen in my kids' school.</p>

<p>I really don't think that my situation has anything to do with the fact that this is a Catholic school. This teacher is new to the school (came in January), she has never taught in a Catholic school before (she came from public schools) and she is not Catholic herself. This really isn't a public vs private vs parochial deal. This is just the result of a human being making a bad decision.</p>

<p>BTW.... the only reference I made to the word "suicide" was when I mentioned the therapist's words about assessing patients. I never said that my son is suicidal or that the teacher thought he was suicidal.</p>

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<p>My son is not seeing two therapists about this incident (he's not even "seeing" one). Two therapists provided "feedback" to the inappropriateness of the statements. Getting feedback from two therapists was done to provide "strength" to the argument that the words were inappropriate. (This is something like getting a "second opinion.")</p>

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<p>From the point of view of a student, I would suggest speaking to the governing authority over the principal (I am assuming that this school has a board of governors or a like body). If the impression that I have gotten from this thread is correct this teacher is immensely unqualified to be giving advice to the students, particularly if it is in the hapazard manner that he (not sure of gender I'll stick to he) used for your son. Ensure that he is unable to harm others in the same manner. </p>

<p>However, keeping the fact that your child is still in school in mind, I'd suggest not making enemies with the remainder of the staff, or else major problems may arise when it comes to requesting letters of recommendation for college. If this was not a concern I'd suggest talking to a local newspaper regarding the manner, but with the future at stake I wouldn't use that particular path. Speak to the school board and express your concerns to them. </p>

<p>I can certainly identify with you. My father is an oncologist, and even after working for 11 years he never tells a patient they have cancer until the test results come in and confirm the case, however strong suspicion may be. I've seen the harm unconfirmed diagnosis can make. A family friend's daughter was prematurely diagnosed with leukemia, sending the family into near hysterics. Although it was later confirmed with tests, the fact that it could have amounted to nothing makes clear the need for an actual basis for suspicion. And the teacher should have not done a thing before consulting you first. </p>

<p>Honestly, if a teacher, particularly an "artsy" type as you suggested, told me something like that I would laugh at them and leave. These types of people are not to be taken seriously whatsoever.</p>

<p>I've had teachers like that. I once had a teacher who thought me to be "mildly retarded" and "motor skill challenged". Well, if retarded students are able to make a 2330 on the SAT and get into Duke, she may have been correct. These teachers are often from the same mold, thinking that they are correct about near everything.</p>

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<p>I think that it was wrong for the teacher to say what she did. I would be angry and upset on behalf of my son as well. </p>

<p>At my son's private prep school when he applied for an AP course the teacher laughed and said "aren't you XXX's brother? (Older sister was not liked by teacher) If you are you don't have what it takes." Son was VERY upset and shaken by the remark. I reassured him and he worked doubly hard in the regular course, and will be applying again for the AP course. I'm crossing my fingers he's accepted into the AP for next year or I will be kicking myself for not contacting the administration about this remark.</p>

<p>I chose not to get involved, primarily because I had no success in the past when getting in the middle of teacher/administration vs. student issues. The school takes a hard line and does not budge. You might as well beat your head against a wall before getting the administration to admit any wrongdoing by a teacher. </p>

<p>I hope your son does not take these remarks to heart and goes on to prove the teacher a thousand times wrong.</p>

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<p>Burnthis: Thanks for your words. Yes, I do remember you. I really try not to have "hard feelings" going from one thread to another because I know that sometimes I agree with some people on some topics and then I won't agree with the same people on others (just like a family!!!) </p>

<p>(BTW - the subject was going from UCLA to Harvard Law..... Frankly, when you said that you went to UCLA and used to practice law, I thought that I might really know you. Did you go to an all girls' high school??? Wouldn't that be a coincidence if I knew you from Calif? )</p>

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<p>primetimemom: At my son's private prep school when he applied for an AP course the teacher laughed and said "aren't you XXX's brother? (Older sister was not liked by teacher) If you are you don't have what it takes." Son was VERY upset and shaken by the remark. I reassured him and he worked doubly hard in the regular course, and will be applying again for the AP course. I'm crossing my fingers he's accepted into the AP for next year or I will be kicking myself for not contacting the administration about this remark...... I chose not to get involved, primarily because I had no success in the past when getting in the middle of teacher/administration vs. student issues. The school takes a hard line and does not budge. You might as well beat your head against a wall before getting the administration to admit any wrongdoing by a teacher.</p>

<p>Frankly, I wish there was a better way for kids and teachers to resolve the AP signups. On one hand, I understand that teachers don't want "screw ups" in the class and they don't want kids to fail the national exam. On the other hand, well-behaved students with a genuine interest should be allowed to take the AP classes. I don't think teachers should be "penalized" if a few kids don't pass the national exam. There should be a "happy medium".</p>

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<p>All right, this is Jlauer95's son... Hello to you all. I'm a frequent visitor to this forum but rarely post (but when I do, I use my mom's name). When I saw what some wrote on this thread, I felt it necessary to present my side of the issue.</p>

<p>As this happened to me, I would like very much to clear up a few misconceptions.</p>

<p>Although I (the person who WAS a witness to the "counseling") personally doubt my teacher's motives (I, like all other 16 year olds, am convinced that my teacher has something against me), I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she perhaps may have had my best interests in mind. Nevertheless, I would like to echo the words of the many people who posted before me and say this, I personally would have preferred for the teacher to have informed my mom or dad if she thought that I had a problem. My parents knew before this situation that our teacher was a little off the wall, and I think if they had heard these comments from her, they would have dismissed them and I would have been spared from the anxious, troubling, yet admittedly revealing and informative days that followed.</p>

<p>Another thing, I HAVE fully gotten over my teacher's less-than-helpful words! Her comments certainly did bug me for several days, but those who do not understand why may need clarification as to why I would be so particularly sensitive. I am the only boy in my class who really strives for good grades. I'm also quite sure that I am the smartest guy in the class (although, considering the small size of the class, it's not much of an accomplishment). </p>

<p>For these reasons, I am a target and have earned "friendly" nicknames such as "overachiever." Although these words certainly are not very hurtful when only said once or twice, constantly being referred to as the "overachiever" really does begin to wear on a person after a while and after it has been ingrained into his mind. This was exacerbated when the teacher made the questionable comments to me. This also combined with her comments that suggest that I only do what's necessary to get an "A" in the class (If that was really true, I wouldn't be taking so many AP classes, because it's so hard to get "A's" in them!) that led to a time of serious self-reflection on my part.</p>

<p>For a couple of days, I wondered to myself, "Oh my God...Is that really what is going to become of me?" After several days of contemplation, I arrived at the conclusion, "No. That's not who I am. I'm not a "grade grubbing" nerd who is going to "burn out" in college from exhaustion. I'm not mentally unstable. I don't need counseling. I am a completely normal, healthy human being. I am not motivated by the desire to be the best, but rather, be the best that I can be."</p>

<p>I would also like to add that my mom really has been accurate in all the facts she has presented. All right, she might have exaggerated a bit about how much the teacher's comments really affected me (I really am fine now), but really, she has been right on pretty much everything else. I felt that the teacher's comments were most definitely out of line. The way I see it, even if they weren't out line, shouldn't she have had the common sense to know that perhaps I would have been susceptible to manipulating the true meaning of her words if I was really as stressed and overpressured as she thought I was? </p>

<p>In addition, I do not feel that I am "a little child that needs mommy or daddy to come to my defense." (In fact, this particular comment bugs me, a lot!) Even before this event, the situation between this teacher and I was extremely awkward, and I certainly was not in the mood to potentially hear more comments from her that were not exactly morale boosters. In hindsight, I probably should have confronted her about her comments myself, but then again, I can say that now because I am no longer hurt by her comments, so I would be well prepared to handle whatever she could throw at me. </p>

<p>Also, I certainly am not "having to see two therapists over this little incident". I assume you mean my parents, because I certainly have never spoken (nor needed to speak to) a therapist in all my life. I told my parents what happened that day, certainly, but only as a response to the mundane question, "Anything happen at school today?". If you think that I spent the next few days crying in the arms of my parents and expressing my heartfelt and depressing emotions to them, that's not even close to what really happened. I mentioned the comments once to my parents, and then I only thought about it several times later when I was in the privacy of my room where I could think to myself. Perhaps my mom picked up on my feelings about the matter anyway (she is good at reading my feelings).</p>

<p>I do agree with the comments that state that I would have preferred if my parents had not made as big of deal about it as they did. But to me (and in hindsight, this was perhaps cowardice and poor-judgment on my part), it seemed preferable to confronting the teacher. </p>

<p>Finally, I really do not need to "lighten up," but if any people here really believe that my teacher's comments were accurate and justified, they certainly would be inclined to think that "lightening up" is exactly what I need. Let me just say, my teacher's comments were based on only a few months of teaching me for one period, every other day. As it has been said above, I hardly speak up during class, so for her to think that she knows enough about me to be making those comments seems a bit rash and presumptuous to me... I think she judges me by my tendency to go back to her and have her regrade my tests and papers (she is very bad at grading and tends to miscalculate my and other classmates' grades. She doesn't add up all the points correctly.). Seeing my English grade plummet from a 99 to an 83 in English since she arrived would probably concern all of you to the point that you too would be scraping every point that you could get if you were in my situation, but in her eyes, that makes me a grade-grubbing and overpressured "stress-case".</p>

<p>Sorry for the super long comment... I just felt my input was kind of necessary to maintain accuracy in this thread...</p>

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<p>You sound like a very well-adjusted, thoughtful kid who has maintained a sense of perspective through this episode and dealings with this teacher. It is useful to know how to deal/work with all sorts of folks in life & sounds like you are handling things well.
Singling out a student for being bright I'm sure gets very old real fast. Hopefully you will find a college next year in your search that you fit into well & can find peers that thrive on exchanging ideas with you.</p>

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<p>NMNMNMNMNMN</p>

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<p>This is JLauer's son again. I do need to make a small correction to my post. After the teacher said what she did, I immediately wrote down what she said so that I would not forget. I did show my mom the words when I got home and she asked how school went (which she always asks when my brother and I get home). I haven't ever wrote down a teacher's words to me before; I did it because I wanted to make sure that I would accurately remember her words. I guess the fact that I did that indicates that her words bothered me more than I may have implied in the above post.</p>

<p>Well, wish me luck. My tennis team leaves today for the state championship! Thanks and bye.</p>

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<p>upsettting when teachers grade unfairly and inaccurately and then get grumpy when corrected. Going from the 90s to the 80s is a big deal to a determined student. She might resent being corrected. I've noticed that humans are not fond of criticism in general. I wonder why so many of us parents who when we were in high school thought teachers were so bizarre and unreasonable now have switched to bewilderment when young people report back to us on their questionable ways. I also wonder whether they still possess bad breathe or is this one good thing that has changed since the previous mid-century?</p>

<p>anyone else curious what nmnmnmnm means? has someone fallen and requires hoisting back into a chair? or is that duct tape on the mouth? That's it! CGM is restraining herself. very funny</p>

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<p>Kluge: >>>> I'm just curious - how many of you would object if a teacher had a student she felt was taking his studies too lightly, and she took him aside to tell him she was worried about him because she had had a couple of former students of a similar bent who ended up drinking too much at fraternity parties in college or doing "menial" jobs?" <<<</p>

<p>Such a teacher should, at first, make sure she has a "trusting and respectful" relationship with the kid. </p>

<p>THEN, she should warmly say <em>something</em> like: You are a bright kid. I know you can do better in my class than you are doing. Is there something I can do to help you succeed? I want you to do well in my class and in other classes because I think that you have what it takes to do well in life. Do you know what type of career might interest you?</p>

<p>I would (and have) said words to that effect to students who were "distracted" by sports, the opposite sex, whatever..... Kids do "eat it up" when teachers are genuinely interested in them. </p>

<p>Lastly, I would like to make something clear to the teachers who are so offended by what I have written: When I taught, students NEVER wanted to leave my class at the end of the day. They would clamor around my desk until their parents had to drag them away. "Mrs. Lauer, Mrs. Lauer," they would say... "Ask me another 'toughie,'" they would beg. I used to give "bonus points" to kids who could answer "tough" questions. No, this wasn't just a bonus to the "gifted" - my average students would "rise to the occasion" and get their share of bonus points too. Those even less gifted would benefit when I would call on them when I would ask a question that wasn't "too tough". Parents would always tell me that their kids learned more in my classes than in any other classes that they ever had. </p>

<p>During my years of teaching & subbing I only had TWO complaints. Both were when I subbed at a Catholic school. The first time it happened it was October and October is "respect life" month in the Catholic church. During "prayer intentions" I mentioned the need to end abortion. One mom complained because she said her 5th grade d came home and asked what abortion was. The mom felt a 5th grader was too young to hear that word. (frankly, my kids have known that word since they were quite small.) I didn't get mad at the mom; I know each family handles those "issues" differently. (I still don't think a 5th grade girl is too young to hear the word abortion since it is mentioned at EVERY Mass in the parish during prayer intentions - which is why I thought it was ok to say in class.) </p>

<p>Another mom complained when during religion class, we discussed the previous Sunday's gospel. She said her son was embarrassed because he is "cool" and didn't want his classmates to know that he goes to Mass (they go to Mass at another parish so his classmates won't see him)!!!! (that was very bizarre.) I know that that mom was a bit "nutty" because she complained to another teacher for putting -0 on the top of her son's paper. The mom insisted that -0 was a "negative statement" and that the teacher should always put 100 or A on the top of a perfect paper. gee whiz...</p>