How do you know if your kid has talent?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
41

<p>@fourkidsmom…you mention your concerns about sending a smart kid down the MT path…if your smart kid is like mine, you’re not sending them…you are being dragged along behind them. I firmly believe that my kiddo’s smarts have and will serve her well in her chosen field – yes, she is a National Merit Finalist, and yes, she has been asked, even by admissions people in BFA programs, if she really wants to do this, given her other academic skills. Answer? An unqualified yes. Also, those academic credits have really helped with scholarships to help fund this MT degree, and she’s going to be a part of the Honors College at her school next year…so she can feed her brain and her performer’s soul. (That was part of her process in choosing schools to audition for – what’s the academic focus, and do Honors and MT “play nice” together.)</p>

<p>I think it is a great gift to be able to step back from maybe what we see for our children’s future (and I think I misplaced my crystal ball about 17 years ago!) and let them go for it. Me? I started out as a classical musician, conservatory trained. Now? I teach special education. Was the music training worth it? Absolutely. Am I a failure that I never scored a job w/a big city symphony? Don’t think so.</p>

<p>And we worry about job prospects, futures for our kids. I have a wonderful nephew, who is bi-lingual, with an elementary education degree…seems a no-brainer – a smart guy teacher who can work w/Spanish-speaking kids in Baltimore, where he lives. Could not get a job in his field for 3 years…another nephew has an advanced degree in some delightfully nerdy engineering field, worked for some years at Motorola, got downsized, and now can’t find work… So even smart kids in “regular” fields are having trouble finding work…</p>

<p>I say to let your kid follow their passion, with the best training undergirding it, and the caveat that if their goals change, that’s okay, too. MT is a LOT of work (especially when you are doing a heavy academic course load, because that’s the way you’re wired…). But there are advantages to being a brainiac, too – I think she does spend a little less time on homework because she “gets it” quickly, that she understands setting goals and keeping on track w/her checklists, etc…and that she’s an astoundindly fast memorizer…</p>

<p>Smarts are not wasted in the arts! (Okay…off soapbox…just have had years of “how could you let your super-smart kid waste her time on this piddly theatre and dance stuff?”) And who knows what she will be when she grows up? Heck, I’m not sure I know who I’m going to be when I grow up! A degree can open doors, regardless of the field…and all the skills a performer learns are awfully important for this job we call “life.”</p>

42

<p>kjgc</p>

<p>Thanks for reaffirming my belief that it doesn’t matter what your degree is in-chances are you will end up doing something different. I can’t tell you how many parents look at me like I’m crazy when I tell them my daughter is planning on pursuing a degree in musical theatre in college. They ask what the back up plan is and I always respond with examples of people I know that have business degrees or other degrees and are doing something completely different.</p>

<p>well said mommafrog</p>

43

<p>My reference to #34 was not to correct anyone about gender, but to say that the person who was “discovered” with only a bit of last minute senior year training was a male. I don’t think that happens with girls since there are so many more of them auditioning.</p>

44

<p>I work in the arts, not MT, and I have a daughter who works in the theater (though, drama, not MT)…and the only thing I want to say, since I haven’t heard it yet, is that TALENT is highly over-rated in the arts. First, past a certain point, everyone who is up for something is capable of doing it, to one degree or another. Second, and you will hear this over and over from very successful artists in all venues, “I wasn’t the most talented one when I was younger, I was just the one who worked the hardest, tried the hardest, refused to give up.”</p>

<p>Assuming a basic level of aptitude, and an increasing level of creativity and courage, a willingness to do the things necessary, sometimes (ugh!) including losing wieght and whatnot, the most “talented” in the end is going to be the one who worked that extra hour: every day.</p>

<p>MT is almost like being an athlete. You will hear again and again how the top athletes were always the earliest to practice, never left the gym first, always put in the extra time.</p>

<p>A quote from writing, but it still applies: Student: “Should I become a writer?” Teacher/Coach/Professional: “Not if you can help it.”</p>

<p>Talent is really over-rated. Seriously. Aptitude+practice+heart are everything. </p>

<p>Good luck to all of your kids. The world needs more artists.</p>

45

<p>thanks mamafrog. I definitely feel like I’m being dragged along. She’s pushed for the best voice teacher thats 30 minutes away- she had to wait until she could drive but that’s where she goes. She’s pushed for all the dance classes, the summer programs and anything she sees that she needs. Its funny, a few years ago I thought my kid would be the only super smart kid in the theater programs but in reality- now- I see where its those kids all over these programs! To balance everything, to memorize everything, to see the future of what’s written on paper to being on stage takes brains. She’s leading this drive for sure!
and kgjc, now that I’ve seen your various posts the last week or so, I get insight from each one. Don’t cut down on your posting!</p>

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<p>Vocal health, vocal health, vocal health!! As kjcg says…it is essential to learn how to sing properly. It’s not going to do you any good to go through all of this (college auditions…then college itself) if you are vocally done in 10 years.</p>

47

<p>kjgc - I wish I could just print that up about working in or out of the field on handouts to give to people. My family has finally gotten behind my D’s major choice (though possibly more because they saw her in a show finally and think she’s got some ability - hate to tell them her chances aren’t any better than they were before they realized she was any good, lol) but I’m not worried about her because I know if she can do this, she can do just about anything barring something that takes very specific technical training such as medicine, engineering, or law. Though - theater majors make really outstanding law students. Of course, there happens to be a glut of those too at the moment…</p>

<p>I have a saying that she might as well be unemployed and looking for work she loves as unemployed and looking for work she never wanted in the first place but only majored in because everyone told her she’d be able to get a job. lol.</p>

<p>And mommafrog, thanks for that also. Personally it has seemed to me that the best artists are always thinkers as well as feelers - that doesn’t always translate to high stats, but quite often it does. Artists (visual and performing) have always presented to me as being above average intelligence, actually.</p>

48

<p>Thank you to the posters that provided specific examples to my question about walk ons. Also kjgc’s incredibly refreshing post about “why does it matter” with respect to the talent question and subsequent replies from others were also quite good to read. Smarts not wasted on the arts, reputable training a must - totally agree.</p>

49

<p>totally agree with this: “MT is almost like being an athlete. You will hear again and again how the top athletes were always the earliest to practice, never left the gym first, always put in the extra time.”</p>

<p>and will modify this: “Talent is really over-rated. Seriously. Aptitude+practice+heart are everything.” I think hard work and heart is talent!
’
and kjgc is right, a parent does not know if their kid has “talent.” So when will a parent know their kid has talent?? when others value their kids performance. Only when that happens will you really know. value is being cast, value in being paid, value in being applauded, those type of values. MT is a performance art, if you don’t get cast, you don’t get paid, and you don’t get applause you don’t have talent.</p>

50

<p>Wow, what a wealth of knowledge, experience, and camaraderie are to be found here. So many of your posts resonate with familiarity. I agree with kjgc that, truthfully, it doesn’t matter right now how “talented” she is - she is having a ball & learning so many intangible skills. To the long list that has already been mentioned, I would like to add that she has learned a lot about history & culture from the musicals and plays we’ve seen. </p>

<p>I still fret about the potential crushing blow of not reaching her dream, but that doesn’t mean she won’t get SOMEWHERE from all of this, even if its not the place she originally envisioned.</p>

51

<p>It is better for her to have a passion, try for it and fail than not to have any passion, at all. Along the way she may discover a love of costume design, or lighting or stage design, a love of make-up, or drama, or etc…</p>

<p>Meryl Streep will tell you she is a “failed opera singer.”</p>

<p>Michael Jordin was a failed baseball player.</p>

<p>The most talented directors in the world are failed actors and MT performers.</p>

<p>And F Scott Fitzgerald considered himself to be a failed poet.</p>

<p>Just some perspective. If the dream does not fit, something else takes it over. Those who are passionate are ALWAYS better off, imho.</p>

52

<p>I love that many of you have either heard or figured it out. This is a job. This is work. Real, hard, trying, difficult, time consuming, impassioned WORK. It is a lifestyle. It is all consuming. There will be many days that changing careers will seem like a fine idea. There will likely be more where that thought never is even considered. </p>

<p>It won’t be a “crushing blow” if she doesn’t make it. There is no date and time where someone who wants to be an artist is given a ticket that says “you didn’t make it.” The never revoke a poetic or artistic license. If it happens, she will gradually move away from one field and move to another. Or she will continue to need to create. Either way, the changes will likely be gradual and be a series of CHOICES. How many things are you doing today that you were passionate about at 15? Few of us had a wonder-years moment where it all became crystal clear we weren’t going to be a race car driver or ballerina. Besides, there are hundreds of jobs in the theatre that aren’t acting/singing/dancing. Learn to write a grant and you’ll be set for life!</p>

53

<p>OK, i’ll add that if she has a crushing blow, that’s probably good, although it’ll hurt. </p>

<p>to quote Michael Jordan again, "26 times, I’ve been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I’ve failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.”</p>

54

<p>I think a point to be added here for those who are worried about your children majoring in MT. One thing for sure is that performing artists must learn how to market themselves, how to budget themselves through periods of unemployment and how to be constantly ready at a moments notice to go for a job (audition). They must be conscious of their appearance, must learn to be articulate speakers, have an incredible work ethic and learn to empathize with others and be tremendous collaborators Given the uncertainties in all job markets today, I can think of no college major that will prepare students better to navigate the world of work after graduation.
Whether they becoming performing artists or not, they will most definitely be prepared to find a job :)</p>

55

<p>Yes, but the trouble is finding a survival job (to pay the rent, put food in their mouths, etc.) that will allow them the flexibility to audition and to go to (if they are fortunate!) call backs and such. My kid is still in school, but I am observing what is going on with a few young people who recently graduated from top notch MT programs and it’s a real struggle. Again, this whole undertaking is not for the faint of heart; our kids (and us) have to realize that if they go down this road, they will pretty much always be looking for the next job, and periods of unemployment will almost definitely be longer and more frequent than periods of employment, unless they are lucky enough to land a job on a soap opera. :)</p>

56

<p>…which is why we are probably going to turn down school choice number one, which would require loans, and go with number two, which wouldn’t, and is still an excellent school - only slightly lower in academic rigour, and a slightly different program, but still a well regarded one.</p>

<p>They have all but laughed at me in several FA offices when I explain to them we are trying to avoid loans because it’s been drilled into them “nobody gets out of college without a loan.” but as long as everyone just meekly accepts that and walks away, then everyone WILL have loans.</p>

<p>(~some families might be in a position to help pay them back or for other reasons feel loans are okay for their situation so I’m not criticizing anyone for taking a loan: it’s just that it is absolutely not what THIS family can do. It’s taking a significant portion of what could have been retirement to do this: we can handle it, but if we have to then pay loans back too - uh uh. We are too close to retiring. And I want her not to have to have them.)</p>

57

<p>Snapdragonfly
I thought I was the only one who felt that way. I got the same response from the financial aid offices of the various schools my D was accepted to last year, we opted for the school that would require little to no loans over 4 years (we hope-cross your fingers)
I just can’t see entering this profession with debt. Even national tours are changing now–many are non-equity and actually make the performers pay for lodging while on tour, granted it is very cheap but not what it used to be. How can you repay the debt, unless your family is simply wealthy enough to do so, which sure isn’t us.
We are also dipping into reserves that makes things a little uneasy but so much better than racking up debt. With the way the economy is going right now, it would be foolish to take out huge loans for ANY college major in my opinion.</p>

58

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<p>Not that I disagree on graduating with debt for these kids, I don’t, but non-Eq tours have been like this for a long time. Intelligently negotiating your per diem is how to accomodate this issue. Also, this is not only an issue with non-Eq tours.</p>

59

<p>Those of you who understand the need for your kid to come out of acting/MT school with no or insignificant debt are doing your kid and yourselves a huge favor. When I read that a kid or a family is taking out tens of thousands of dollars in debt to send that kid to train in musical theater or acting (or ballet, or whatever) at his or her “dream school,” I think about this article I read online: [I’m&lt;/a&gt; Graduating From A College I Can’t Afford | NYU Livewire](<a href=“http://journalism.nyu.edu/publishing/archives/livewire/money_work/gen_debt/index.html]I’m”>http://journalism.nyu.edu/publishing/archives/livewire/money_work/gen_debt/index.html)
One of the very best gifts you can give your kid is graduating without debt to pay off, especially when you consider all the expenses that that kid will have straight off the bat, from finding and putting a security deposit down on a NYC (or LA or Chicago) apartment to subway passes, food, membership at a gym (yes, they have to keep in shape because looks matter a great deal in their business) and all of that, not to mention headshots, etc. etc. Many families I know of find themselves subsidizing their recently graduated young actor’s lives in a way that they had not anticipated, because if the recent graduate is forced to take a full time, “regular” job, then how can he or she audition? These are all things to think about when thinking about tuition and accruing debt.</p>

60

<p>We are also approaching this with the goal of no debt on graduation. While my D did apply to some of the very expensive programs, it was with the understanding that she could only attend those programs if they handed out very substantial aid (not in the form of loans). We told her this right up front, so it wasn’t a huge issue when it came to turning down those acceptances. We got the “look” from financial aid offices also because they seem to think it is a given that students will take out loans to get thru college- and not just in MT. It is so important to apply to a wide range of program types not only because of the tough competition to get into programs, but for the best options financially. I can’t imagine having ANY of our kids graduate with $100,000 (or more) in debt and then try to make it financially after graduation- our older two had more “normal” majors but I wouldn’t have saddled them with debt either. While the older 2 have been very fortunate with good jobs straight out of college, many of their friends have not and are really struggling trying to pay living expenses plus loans. We are also nearing retirement and I would not consider taking on a huge debt at this point in our lives. I do not want to be put in the position of having to rely on our children to support us financially because we have huge loans to pay off (and I’m sure they don’t want that either!!!). And because of the nature of this business, there is a good chance we will be subsidizing our D out of school (as NMR pointed out). We will be putting our 4th and last thru college at that point so just couldn’t deal with loans on top of his tuition (although he has assured me he will receive a full ride for soccer -lol). As SDF pointed out, I am not at all criticizing those who choose loans as it is such a personal choice, but it is something we decided a long time ago that our family could not deal with!</p>