How do you know whats true when everything is subjective ? Especially intelligence...

<p>You can never objectively look at something because everything has to go through your mind first. However, isn't our reasoning riddled with cognitive biases like defense mechanisms? Even if you are "wrong" your mind will try to reason out of it to protect your ego.</p>

<p>Heck, with illusory superiority where we overestimate our good qualities and underestimate our bad, in a survey they asked people if they are better drivers than the rest of the population, and 80% said they are. Long ago in the SAT I believe they had a survey and they asked if they believed their intelligence was in the Top 1% and 20% of takers bubbled this in. Theres also the downing effect where people with below average IQ think they are smarter than the average while the above average IQ think they are not as smart as the average.</p>

<p>wouldn't knowing this bring down our confidence? You'll never know what to believe in and can't really judge your own intelligence (I mean, right now a defense mechanism could be that BECAUSE I know of this psychology stuff I AM smarter than everyone else. But couldn't anyone do the same thing..)</p>

<p>Haha I hope you guys understand I did my best to explain it</p>

<p>Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.</p>

<p>Someone just read The Allegory of the Cave for the first time? Hahaha…</p>

<p>The only way to find truth, I think, is to obtain consensus. To get lots of people to observe the same thing and then see if what they see (how they describe what they see) matches up. Because if the descriptions do, then there’s a good probability that your initial observation was correct (because it’s unlikely they’re all subconsciously biased in the same way).</p>

<p>but i don’t know. I still wouldn’t call it absolute truth. I think (as humans) there are certain limits on how close we can get to the truth (because there are limits on what tools we can use to get at it). At some point, we say this is objective or this is not, but really the only way we differentiate between the two is how well agreed upon they are (or aren’t). Objectivity, it seems, is to some degree subjective. But i don’t think this devaluates it. It’s still as interesting as ever to figure out what things we can come to agreement upon, and which things we can’t. Or it’s interesting to try and find agreement, to strive for it, and to try and resolve conflicting observations.</p>

<p>intelligence is of course hard to deal with, because it has personal impact (and things with personal impact tend to be clouded by subconscious bias). No matter how much outside input you get about your intelligence, you may use the fact that you know yourself best as ammunition to increase the weight of your own views of yourself. So you may remain cautious about the findings long after they are well established. </p>

<p>One things you can do, I think, in these sorts of situations, is to disentangle your own views from those of others. Acknowledge that other’s judgement of qualities about yourself are accurate everywhere outside of yourself. You can still inwardly have contrasting views, but they won’t effect how others perceive you. They may effect how you act - but this is a different matter. I don’t know. this is the best way I can think of to get some clarity. Of course, in practice it never happens though. People are influenced by the world’s view - either they agree with it (because it reflects well on them) or become indignant and dismiss it (because it does not reflect well on them). Or, they just dismiss the importance of the whole concept of the quality in question. They acknowledge the merit of world’s findings (the metrics that judge the quality) but not the value behind the concept. But it’s hopeless to try and sort this out I think.</p>

<p>Yet one can argue that everything is objective because all that are in existence, including our brain, can be broken down into the laws of physics and chemistry.</p>

<p>^But those laws were interpreted by us, so theoretically one could argue that they’re just a part of our subjective experience. Until you can experience something outside of your self, you can’t classify anything as objective.</p>

<p>[clears</a> throat](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology]*clears”>Epistemology - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>Free will is an illusion, we simply interact the our surroundings.</p>

<p>Welcome to your first glmmer of post-modernist theory.</p>

<p>^^Lol I like your use of Skinner’s ideology.</p>

<p>Damn, you’re right. Everything we know is just a shadow on a wall.</p>

<p>Illusory superiority isn’t proof of subjective bias. It’s a result of it. And saying “oh, everything is subjective so whatever you say is null” is a poor way to go about thinking. You might as well walk around trying to convince everyone that we’re all part of a giant sentient calculating machine built by aliens to find the universal question, which is always a possibility, just not one which we can currently determine and therefore not something we’re all that concerned with because, at the moment, there is no reason to believe this is how it is. Of course, the assumption is that what we observe (not necessarily through our senses, but rather through hypothesizing and experiments) is the best we’ve got, and if we can prove that our analysis lines up with our observations and that we can now predict this behavior to a rigorous level of accuracy, then we can assume it’s true, at least until we learn something else that either adds on or takes away from it.</p>

<p>There are a few other psychological findings that prove other ways humans fool themselves, either knowingly and willingly or subconsciously. endfieldacademy brought up the use of consensus as a way of establishing facts, but studies (I’ll look for them later if anyone asks) have shown that individuals are easily manipulated by group thought, whether consciously (to promote group dynamics) or unconsciously (groups tend to follow through with one idea instead of offering competing alternatives). Not to mention that many people simply don’t have the expertise to determine whether something is “true” (I will use true to mean rigorously proven) or not. </p>

<p>The scientific method exists to form a model and “explain” - to the best of our abilities and resources - observed and theoretical phenomena. Of course, ideas like “the existence of gravity is subjective” is false (it’s also nonsensical - the word “subjectivity” doesn’t exactly apply here) because the theory has been studied numerous times. The scientific method is dependent on the continual reexamination of theories to compensate for advancements in understanding, and so what we understand as gravity has recently been redefined under general relativity. We can say that general relativity is “objectively” true, based on our current data, because there was an acceptable level of rigor involved in determining it. Theories aren’t just pulled out of our asses. But that’s something you already probably know.</p>

<p>If you want to talk about personal intellect, I think finding the merit of a person’s level of competence is far more useful, especially competence when measured for a certain very specific field. For example, someone’s mastery of calculus at a certain level can be easily determined through a series of exams - it doesn’t matter how he or she went about getting this mastery, or how easily a higher level of mastery can be obtained, only that the mastery being measured is there. </p>

<p>I just hashed this together as quickly as I can, but I’ll get back to this some time later.</p>

<p>dude I posted like 50 threads on this several years ago. too bad i’m too lazy to dig it up again.</p>

<p>all i’ll say is that i’ve concluded that we should all listen to parrots.</p>

<p>Haha this thread reminds me of the Renaissance. Montaigne freaking out like “OH GOD NOTHING CAN BE KNOWN OH GOD KNOWLEDGE.” And the rest of the world being like “Chilllll, we got this. Scientific method dude.”</p>

<p>I have nothing to add to this thread because I’m not really into this sort of philosophy (dude did you know that we can like, all see, you know, different colors and we wouldn’t even know it, you know?), just saying that I’m amused. And that AeroEngineer has an amazing post.</p>

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<p>That’s true; it’s why so few people are able to think for themselves. Therefore, they subjectively decide that the person (or group, as the case may be) making such decisions is the most intelligent. Group think dominates.</p>

<p>^^^^ You should write a book, lol.</p>

<p>Edit: Is this the kind of stuff discussed in Theory of Knowledge? >_></p>

<p>What is real? How do you define real? If you’re talking about what you can hear, what you can smell, taste and feel, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.</p>

<p>no, there are true things throughout the universe. Aliens too have math</p>

<p>one plus one is always two</p>

<p>Pythagorean triples are always true</p>

<p>the values of pi, e, and i are true</p>

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<p>I completely disagree with this. Look what happened in Germany in the 30s. In time of adversity, people tend to change the truth to what they want the truth to be. Even on this site. How many people say that Harvard is a reach because they want to believe that Harvard is a reach for everyone? (I am not saying that Harvard is not a reach for everyone. This is merely an example.) Whether this is true or not, people change the truth to fit their needs.</p>

<p>^ i agree, its like the concept of wikiality</p>

<p>Math is a human construct</p>