<p>How does LSA and Ross do compared to Dartmouth in terms of placing its students to MBB?</p>
<p>Michigan students of Dartmouth calibre interested in MBB careers are typically enrolled in Engineering or Ross. Placement into MBB from those two programs are comparable to Dartmouth. From LSA, placement would not be as potent because the college of LSA’s casreer office is not as agressive as Ross or the CoE, or as Dartmouth’s career office. This said, many of my fellow Econ majors landed jobs with Bain, BCG, Booz, McKinsey and Mercer, so there is definitely recruitment activity within LSA. In fact, I think McKinsey recruits undergrads more heavily from LSA than from Ross.</p>
<p>Notice how Alexandre avoided giving a direct answer to your question.</p>
<p>Dartmouth’s alumni presence in the Management Consulting world is much, much, much greater than Michigan’s.</p>
<p>I currently work in Finance and so do many of my friends at school. Here is the undisputed top school listing for IB/MC/PE/HF:</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Penn
Dartmouth
Duke
Williams
Amherst
Swarthmore</p>
<p>If you don’t go to one of the above schools, you’re not getting a Management Consulting job in this economy.</p>
<p>^^^Duke is overrated.</p>
<p>This isn’t about ratings though. Duke has an extensive and active network in business. Also, its international prestige is growing.</p>
<p>It’s about an agenda that a certain partisan Duke student has against Michigan. Alexandre is much better equipped to comment about matters like these than he is.</p>
<p>Actually ring<em>of</em>fire, Ross is as effective (if not more effective) at placing students in major Management Consulting firms as most of the schools you listed except Harvard, Princeton and Wharton. So your list really should include Michigan (at least Ross) and other schools you forgot to mention, which include Brown, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, MIT, Northwestern and Stanford. </p>
<p>As for LSA, I agree that it is not as effective, and I have said as much above. I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that I was “avoiding” the question. I clearly stated that LSA is not designed to place students into such industries. My exact words were:</p>
<p>“From LSA, placement would not be as potent because the college of LSA’s casreer office is not as agressive as Ross or the CoE, or as Dartmouth’s career office.”</p>
<p>I am not sure how that constitutes avoiding answering the question. But like I said, that’s because of how Michigan is designed. The career office dedicated to attracting major IBanks and Management Consulting firms at most universities that do not offer BBAs (Dartmouth, Duke, HYPS etc…) is the college of Arts and Sciences. At schools like Michigan, which have top ranked BBA programs, students interested in pursuing careers in IBanking or Management Consulting are better off majoring in Business because that’s where the career office that attracts the majority of IBanks and Management and Management Consultiung firms happens to be.</p>
<p>Just so that we understand what I am talking about, roughly Ross students apply for Wall Street IBanking and Consulting jobs annually. Roughly 120-150 are placed in major firms as Analysts. That’s an 80% - 100% placement rate. It does not get much better than that. Every single IBank (including Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, UBS, Deutche and Citi) and every major Management Consulting firm (including Bain, BCG, Booz, MMC and McKinsey) list Michigan as one of their 10-15 strategic campuses. ALL OF THEM. Three-four years ago, Businessweek and the Vault separately conducted very thorough surveys on the 10 or so strategic campuses where the major IBanks and Management Consulting elites recruited most heavily and Michigan (all of it, not just Ross) was listed among the top 10 by more such firms than all but 4 or 5 universities. So those companies do not restrict their recruitment actitivites just to Ross. All of them, AND I MEAN ALL OF THEM, conduct recruitment activities in the CoE and in LSA.</p>
<p><a href=“Error 404! Page Not Found. - iMpact Web Portal”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2008.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://career.engin.umich.edu/annualReport/Annual_Report0708.pdf[/url]”>http://career.engin.umich.edu/annualReport/Annual_Report0708.pdf</a></p>
<p>This said, LSA is not as potent as Ross (or Dartmouth Arts and Sciences for that matter). Like I said, Ross’ placement rate into major IBanks and Management Consulting almost rivals Wharton’s. Well over 75% of Ross students applying for such jobs are placed. From LSA and the CoE, the percentage placed would be lower, but not by much. I majored in Economics ad my GPA was under (albeit slightly) 3.5. I still managed to get offers from Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers (RIP) before graduation. I was by no means the exception. Most of my felloe Econ majors were landing jobs with major companies, from Ford to McKinsey. </p>
<p>In short, contrary toi ring<em>of</em>fire’s statement, most major IBanks and Management Consulting firms recruit heavily at more than just 6 national universities…and if they recruited at just 6, I am not sure he got them right. Where is Where is Brown? Where is Cal? Where is Chicago? How about Columbia? And Cornell? What about Georgetown? Where is MIT? And Michigan? Where is Northwestern? Where is Stanford? And UVa? His claim that undergrads at Dartmouth and Duke are somehow far more in-demand than students from the 12 or so universities I listed is way off. There are at last 15 strategic campuses among national universities. In hard times, such as this, companies will indeed retrict their recruitment activities to fewer campuses. Those will typically have top ranked MBA programs and top ranked Engineering schools. So Georgetown may suffer, as may the LACs. But most other schools I listed above, along with HYP, Dartmouth, Duke and Penn should be fine…even if the recruitment volume does take a serious hit…and believe me, IT WILL!</p>
<p>“This isn’t about ratings though. Duke has an extensive and active network in business. Also, its international prestige is growing.”</p>
<p>That is correct Mondroylobo. Duke’s alumni network and international prestige are excellent. But so are Michigan’s. In fact, they are about even. If you look at the number of Michigan alums in key positions at most major companies, they certainly equal those of Duke. And Michigan alums are just as loyal and proud of their university as students from any other university, same as Duke. Finally, Michigan’s international reputation also equals that of Duke, and since moth are generally considered among the top 15 US universities by international publications, I doubt either Michigan or Duke has much room to climb…although admitesdly, Michigan has been atop the international charts for quite some time, whereas Duke, as you pointed out, has enjoyed a great deal of improvement internationally in recent years.</p>
<p>I think you are pretty accurate, Alexandre. Wonder if LSA becomes at least marginally more attractive as the Finance world i.e., Wall Street continues to shrink. The jobs will likely be fewer, pay less, and employees will work unreal hours to enhance firm productivity even as business spending shrinks at client firms. This could be at least a cyclical, if not secular trend. Regardless of the less aggressive recruiting by business at LSA, do you think an LSA Econ. major (perhaps with an out -of- field double major or minor) might be able to market him or herself more broadly and with a better fallback position, despite the very high placement rates Ross undergrads receive. How do you think current starting and mid-career potential salaries would compare for a motivated LSA Econ BA vs. a similar strong Ross BBA?</p>
<p>nobody who includes swathmore in their list can pssible be taken seriously</p>
<p>that being said, from what i’ve noticed dartmouth gets recruited surprisingly well for some reason. i honestly think only hypw are better, and not even by that much. i agree with alexandre, however, that michigan is as good or better than the other schools mentioned.</p>
<p>unless you for some reason don’t like the campus culture at dartmouth, you’re probably better off there. that being said, a good friend of mine had a similar choice to the one you are facing, chose ross over dartmouth, and will be startng his mbb internship this summer, so obviously things still worked out and the difference isnt great enough to justify going to one if you feel you’d have a better college experience at the other.</p>
<p>friend from Umich graduated from Ross in 3.5 years, took the other half year hiking and traveling around Asia, and still landed an IB job at Morgan Stanley (even in this recession!). that’s awesome.</p>
<p>…Ross only place 7 at MBB. I read some where that Wharton placed 15 at M alone. wow. just wow. and the dartmouth report says that M is one of its top recruiters. Alexandre, I don’t plan on going to Ross as my main objective is getting as high a GPA as possible in undergrad. and since Ross is very competitive, I want to steer clear from it since I don’t care about studying business at the undergrad level. so how does LSA do at placing its students to MBB? What exactly does the career center do anyway, like how is the ross center better than the lsa one?</p>
<p>kmr, remember that wharton is twice the size of Ross. Ross graduates 350 students each year. Wharton graduates 650 students each year. So Ross’ 4 McKinsey and 3 Bain placements in 2008 are not that much worse than Wharton’s 13 McKinsey and 8 Bain placements in 2008. Michigan also placed 3 students into Oliver Wyman compared to Wharton’s 6. The one MBB that recruited heavily at Wharton last year and not at Ross as BCG, which hired 8 Wharton students and 0 Ross student. However, BCG generally hires several Ross undergrads each year, just not in 2008. Obviously, wharton has an advantage over Ross, but Ross holds its own.</p>
<p>At any rate, if you can maintain a high GPA (over a 3.6) in the college of LSA, you chances of getting a job with a MBB are good. However, I believe that Dartmouth Arts and Sciences would probably be more effective than Michigan LSA. Like I said earlier, Colleges that do not have elite Engineering and Business programs for undergrads (like Dartmouth and Duke) will have a more effective and active centralized career office. </p>
<p>But I would discourage you from attending one university over another simply because your odds of landing a job with a MBB would be better from that university. First of all, you may decide to change career paths in the future. Secondly, your experience while at college matters more than how quickly you land your dream job. </p>
<p>When chosing between Dartmouth and Michigan, your choice is easy. The two schools have totally difference campus environments and settings. Go for fit and the rest will take care of itself. there is nothing you cannot accomplish at a university like Dartmouth or Michigan, so either way, you cannot lose.</p>
<p>Dartmouth student here who chose Dartmouth over Ross (LSA honors + preferred admission) last year…</p>
<p>I would say that you shouldn’t choose one school or the other based on what job you can get out of college. Dartmouth very much prides itself on the well-rounded college experience. There is no absolutely right choice for all people in this situation. If you visited both, you would know which one is for you (because other than attracting top students, they are very different).</p>
<p>I’m guessing that if you are still debating that you don’t/didn’t have time to visit both before the May 1st deadline. If this is the case, please post here a little bit more about yourself (or just pm me if you prefer) so that I can try and give you some more informed advice.</p>
<p>mbb recruiting is more about the individual/luck than the school anyways. Wharton/Harvard are supposed to be the best at getting students into mbb, but even then, the numbers are so small that it’s not really useful to compare the mbb placement numbers.</p>
<p>That’s an excellent point kb. Out of Wharton’s 640 member graduating class last year, 13 got jobs with McKinsey and another 25 or so got jobs with other major MBBs. That’s excellent to be sure, but how many students applied for those 35-40 jobs? 200? Maybe 300?</p>
<p>a slight qualification needs to be made to kb’s point though: AS LONG AS YOUR SCHOOL IS A TARGET SCHOOL, then it is up to the individual and maybe a little bit of luck more than the school. Very few schools are targets for mbb. However, both Michigan and Dartmouth are among the handful that fall in this category.</p>
<p>getting into mbb if they don’t target your campus is a whole different ballgame (and a very, very tough one)</p>
<p>Hi dartmouth moose i am a senior in pretty much the same boat as you were in, and my boats sprung a leak. i’ve narrowed my choices down to dartmouth and michigan. I have on one hand UM honors LSA, with the whole instate tuition deal and the Michigan Promise thing and basically, it’d be really cheap to go to michigan. On the other hand, i have dartmouth, where i like the campus, and the environment better, but it’d be much more expensive for me to go there. (i still haven’t recieved my financial aid reply). The deadline to decide, of course, is may first, and i was hoping you could enlighten me a bit! THanks!</p>