How has the admissions game changed in the past 5 years? And a request for guidance.

Parents Forum
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<p>Perhaps, but the OP placed the bar very high by asking chances at around 80 percent. For many around here, that becomes Safety or Highly Likely school versus a match. Does not mean that the chances are not very good, but 80 percent is quite high. As far as public school go, despite the advantages offered to local residents, the applicants with high scores/GPA still fare pretty well, even at UNC that pushes that envelope as far as they can. </p>

<p>To be clear, the comment about being a girl was not for LACs in general, but for the high rates of admission at all-female LACs such as Wellesley. </p>

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<p>So happy to see responses! And hi, CCers from my era! So nice to hear from you guys. KwK, how does your son feel now he’s an alum? </p>

<p>So, answers to the questions:</p>

<ol>
<li>Yes, he does plan to take the SAT one more time.</li>
<li>Oh I forgot about Naviance! Thanks! This isn’t a named school, just a large one in a resourced environment. However, I am sure he can access Naviance.</li>
<li>He would prefer not hot weather, and thinks that due to aforementioned family dynamics he probably doesn’t want to come to Northern California. Also thinks probably suburb or maybe rural, but that’s his least pressing concern at this point.</li>
<li>And he prefers small to large, but most likely would like the larger range of small, if that makes sense:). His mom thinks an LAC would be a great thing for him.</li>
<li>He’s not sure what he will study - but most likely in that cross-over Comp Sci, Economics, maybe Engineering, maybe Finance - area. Not the liberal arts, but probably not the hard sciences either.</li>
<li>And ECs are the issue. Highly doubtful he can play sports at the college level at all, and no other other ECs ever really stuck. But he is good on teams - hence captain, hence MVP.</li>
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<p>And please, be as technical as you like:). Will give them the A is For Admission reference, had TOTALLY blocked that out of my mind.</p>

<p>Does the fact that is he is visibly NOT packaged, a complete diamond in the rough, if you will, count at all? I have advised him not to get essay coaching, to let himself shine through as the authentic person he is. Was that dumb?</p>

<p>It is so great to have you guys’ guidance. Thank you so much. All I’ve got to offer in return is what a parent really thinks about the Princeton experience:), but if that’s worth anything, feel free to email me.</p>

<p>skyepeale (at) yahoo.com</p>

<p>The goofy name is because it’s my blog.</p>

<p>THANK YOU!</p>

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<p>Sounds like a good fit for Bucknell, Wake Forest, maybe Tufts?</p>

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<p>I do not think it is dumb, but consider that the help of true pros would … help. There is a world of difference between getting GOOD coaching that includes make the student’s voice shine and getting someone to write the essay for the student. In my book, it is all about recognizing the areas that could be improved. Sitting for another SAT might help but it is hard to do much better at the level the kid is. Slaving to get the GPA up is also mostly futile. Starting new ECs make no sense this late in the game.</p>

<p>Focusing on what CAN be done is a much better deal. For some, very little is needed and gentle pushes suffice. For others, it might help to spend “some” money in hiring people who have their thumb on the pulse of the adcoms in 2014. Fwiw, I believe that the term packaging is taking an unnecessary pejorative tone. It is not about creating a Frankenapplicant, but about making sure that the best angles show in the right places. You can’t get a diamond out of coal (in admissions) but you can surely polish it to its best. </p>

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<p>Oy. Where does one look for a really good admissions coach? Someone who would not turn him to Styrofoam on contact?</p>

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<p>With a 1480 CR+M score, which seems pretty high to me (top 2 to 3% score), I was surprised there are at least 40 Universities which have a 75% SAT score higher than that (so don’t fit your criteria) so looking at the next 20 … assuming you are looking for 75+% chance you would be looking at schools like RPI, Case, UVa, Boston College, Rochester at the high end of that score range.</p>

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<p>Ooops, looks like I missed a couple of posts. Sorry, out of practice on forum software. (Am pretty good at Twitter though:)) Good point about parental goals - his mom just wants him to go to a school that he likes and that challenges him - and good point about not looking for 80%. I think you are right, I do mean any place >50%. I’ll be talking to him - he doesn’t want to go on CC, I don’t think, at this stage - and asking him about LACs, etc., and reviewing the list in detail to start to tease out his preferences, and help him get a robust list of places to apply to.</p>

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<p>I personally think Hernandez is out for Hernandez, xiggi. We used to be able to find more about her own background, but not now, ime, only PR stuff. In fact, I think she not only left D in 2003, but hasn’t worked directly in admissions since.<br>
OP asked how things changed in 5 years: first, that the competition is bigger and fiercer than even then. More applicants and more powerful.</p>

<p>Sure, 780 is great. But the issue is the 700. If he will major in STEM, maybe ok, depends-- but OP said, “doesn’t quite fit the Math/Science guy stereotype.” (And his competition for an econ direction will include plenty of kids with higher CR.) So, the issue becomes, other than sports, what does he do? The contender kids today do more than just a little hs engagement, sports or clubs. OP, the family needs to think of everything he does do- not just in the hs. </p>

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<p>Don’t downplay his leadership qualities.</p>

<p>I don’t know what adcoms are impressed by, but in the real world, that makes people take notice. </p>

<p>Something like climbing Mt. Everest may be a conversation starter, but if I’m looking to add someone to a team, someone who was voted captain and MVP is going to garner a closer look than someone who climbed Everest (which, for certain backgrounds, isn’t that spectacular an accomplishment).</p>

<p>I think that he has a decent shot at many schools if he applies ED and can put together some good essays. Once he has a few safeties in place, if money isn’t a concern, shoot for the stars. You can only attend one school, so applying to 10 schools where you have an 80% chance at each doesn’t make much sense in my book.</p>

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<p>See if you can get a look at the current Common App and any supplements for the colleges in mind. Gives an idea of what he will need to project. Being a diamond in the rough can be charming, but he’ll compete with kids ready to hit the ground running, kids already following a vision, having some impact. Even for schools further down the Top 50 list. </p>

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<p>LF, I mentioned AISFA because of a direct question about Dartmouth and added that if I had a kid interested in Dartmouth I’d start there. I cannot agree with the untimeliness of the advice, and I will safely assume her information is quite recent. But what we think <em>you and me</em> is not really relevant. It would be to the potential client to ask about the relevance and accuracy of the advice in 2014. </p>

<p>There are a good number of very known outfits in that industry. If I were to apply a decade later than I did, I still would get it done by my little self with a budget equal to a couple of movies. That does not stop me from recognizing that there are experts who deliver good services. Fwiw, if one would require about a great medical specialist in your own town, chances are that you will get a ton of different opinions. </p>

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<p>X, if only I could confirm that. So much has changed in the past 5 years. Eg, isn’t she the one now telling kids to include a resume? </p>

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<p>If he’s interested in warm weather and LACs and is in CA the Claremont colleges seem like an obvious choice. Rice is probably a reach since his CR score is at the top of the bottom 25%, and his math is somewhere in the middle 50%. (More than 75% get 800s in math! @-) )</p>

<p>FWIW, for my pretty high stats kids, we ended up with a strategy that consisted of 2 safeties they liked and that ended up offering merit aid and the rest of the list was reaches. As always, I highly, highly recommend finding a school with EA or rolling admissions if the kid doesn’t apply ED somewhere. The best safety of all is the school you get into early. And if you don’t get in to any schools EA that may be a sign that you need to add safer schools to the list or rethink the application. (Older son finally got the outside recommendations we’d been nagging him to get.)</p>

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<p>A résumé or an activity list? I think that the idea was the cornerstone of her Ace that application (or something similar) but I am not sure if that is the current practice. As an anecdote, I asked her once about sending that activity list to schools that specifically ask not to send more than they require. The school was Stanford and the answer was … I do not think they mind … all my kids got accepted. Marketing bravado or not if for you to decide. </p>

<p>In the end, we never know when kids are accepted because of a certain element or in spite of it. :)</p>

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<p>FYI, Stuy and some other competitive East/Mid-Atlantic public/private HS do not officially rank their students.</p>

<p>Stuy doesn’t officially rank beyond the Val & Sal. </p>

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<p>How much will the family pay annually? If finances are a consideration, this needs to be addressed before the kid falls in love with unaffordable colleges. The family needs to know how schools will deal with the non-custodial parent income and aid calculations. </p>

<p>Check out the thread for automatic full tuition/full ride scholarships…there is a link to current info there.</p>

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<p>I immediately thought of Colby and Colorado College.</p>

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<p>This selection of majors of interest can limit the selection of LACs.</p>

<ul>
<li>Computer science: many LACs have small CS departments with limited CS course offerings or low frequency of offering each course. Check catalogs and schedules carefully.</li>
<li>Economics: if he is math-oriented or intends to go on to PhD study, he needs to consider how mathematical the economics department is, and how good the math and statistics offerings are.</li>
<li>Engineering: many LACs do not have engineering. Many of them advertise 3+2 programs, but few students actually transfer to the “2” school, perhaps because they do not want to leave their small LAC for a big university that is the “2” school, or because they were not admitted or did not get enough financial aid or scholarships at the “2” school (many are public, which is an issue for out-of-state students; some of the private ones give worse financial aid for transfers than frosh).</li>
<li>Finance: usually a part of a business department which is not present in most LACs, although courses may be offered in economics departments.</li>
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<p>The most obvious LAC for the above majors is Harvey Mudd, which has engineering, CS, and math, and a decent selection of economics and finance courses (with the ability to take additional courses or do an off-campus major at Pomona or CMC – I would not be surprised if the Harvey Mudd courses were the most math-intensive, though). However, Harvey Mudd tends to be a very reachy school for admissions. It also has extensive core or general education requirements in science, humanities, and social studies.</p>

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<p>Re: Dartmouth</p>

<p>Does he intend to join a fraternity? At Dartmouth, fraternities and sororities are a big part of the social scene, with about two thirds of eligible students joining (frosh are not eligible, so that is about half of all undergraduates).</p>

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<p>Or maybe a LAC with a b-school like Richmond or W&L.
Or another LAC with engineering like Swarthmore.</p>

<p>Or a a LAC with both! Both Lehigh and Bucknell offer both business and engineering (and of course CS) while still being fairly small.</p>