<p>How important is the SAT Math 2 test for science and Engineering majors?</p>
<p>My son did a practice test (wants engineering) and did very poorly.</p>
<p>He does have a 4.0 GPA and did ok on his PSAT with a 186 for a sophomore.</p>
<p>He is hoping to apply to UVA and UNC if he can get his scores high enough. </p>
<p>For a science/engineering major I’d say very important at many schools and required at some. How poorly is very poorly? </p>
<p>For out of state students, UVA and UNC aren’t what I call “semi” selective. But he seems like he’s on track with 186 PSAT as a sophomore and he has time for additional prep before he has to get his apps out. If he’s a sophomore now, he has plenty of time to bring those scores up. </p>
<p>If he’s a sophomore he has time and course work ahead to prepare him for the test. For Math 2 it’s recommended that students have pre-calc. My D is a Junior and is waiting til the end of this school year (June) to take Math 2; she’s currently in pre-calc. There are engineering schools she’s been looking at where Math 2 is required.</p>
<p>UN c does not have engineering (except, I think, biological engineering). NC State has the engineering programs.</p>
<p>If he’s only a sophomore, then he has time to raise his score! Do a bunch of practice tests (learn the concepts first) until he reaches a score he’s satisfied with.</p>
<p>There is no “standard” when it comes to standardized testing requirements for college admissions. It’s not too much of a stretch to say that, from the perspective of an admissions committee, math achievement/proficiency is highly desirable in college applicants who plan to major in engineering.</p>
<p>MIT is just one school, but it requires that applicants take one Math Subject test (either Level 1 or Level 2) and one of the science Subject tests (Physics, Chemistry, Biology).</p>
<p>Some engineering schools specify a strong preference for the Math Level 2 Subject test.</p>
<p>Some engineering departments prefer the ACT to the SAT…since the ACT contains the Science reasoning section.</p>
<p>FWIW, a sophomore PSAT score of 186 is pretty good (assuming no prep). If a student with that kind of score is motivated and willing to put in the work, it’s certainly possible to pump up the junior year score over the NMS qualifying threshold (varies according to state). I’ve had several motivated students who ended up scoring 230+ on the junior year PSAT after scoring in the 190s as sophomores. With the proper training, 30+ point improvements are quite common.</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies.</p>
<p>To give a bit more information, I meant schools like UNC and UVA. Don’t have an exact list as we start this summer visiting different size and location colleges.</p>
<p>Currently, he is in AP Statistics and Trig/Pre-Calc classes. From my readings that is usually good to take the Math 2 test after Pre-Calc class.</p>
<p>As for how poor, he only correctly answered 27 questions on his first practice test. </p>
<p>And Lastly, yes he scored a 186 without prep. I wanted to get a baseline. He will start to work this summer for the real SAT possibly in either November or January next year. </p>
<p>27 out of ??? What score did they say that translated into? For engineering I’d think you’d want at least a 600/800 for selective schools 650. Schools like CMU, MIT etc. I’m pretty sure most applicants have at least 700 probably 750. If he hasn’t finished pre-calc he still has time. I know that there a handful of questions on things like matrices, that aren’t always covered in pre-calc and he might want to teach himself. My younger so got around a 180 sophomore year and about 205 junior year. (Which is not nearly good enough for NMS in NY.) He didn’t make much of an effort to study for either round.</p>
<p>Mathmom, sorry that would have been a 27 out of 50 on barron’s prep book diagnostic test for the SAT Math 2.</p>
<p>I just looked up what that would roughly translate to on a 800 scale, and the table I looked at put it at around 650. Not bad at all for a sophomore who hasn’t really prepped for it! Tell him not to be so hard on himself. 
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<p>My poor daughter. How did she EVER get a bachelors degree in engineering? She took NO SAT 2 tests, and never took calculus in high school. I think HER college (Santa Clara) was “semi selective”.</p>
<p>UVA and UNC would be considered highly selective, especially if you live OOS. UNC only accepted 17% of OOS applicants this year.</p>
<p>Elliemom, I thought the standard score for this test was at least 750 or higher. I know he is a sophomore, but with him in the pre calc class I thought this was the year he was supposed to take the test. </p>
<p>Should he wait till after taking AP Calc AB? He takes this course in junior year and then will take AP Calc BC senior year.</p>
<p>On the answer key it said the score would translate to a 630. If that is a good start I am pleasantly pleased. As I said, after reading other threads it seemed everyone was expecting to score min 750 and most were getting higher. </p>
<p>I stand corrected on UNC and UVA as being semi selective. I guess I should say highly selective, but not ivy league type. </p>
<p>The standard thing is to take the SATI and SATIIs spring semester of junior year, regardless of how advanced you are. </p>
<p>collegealum, there might be another question. </p>
<p>how do others get all these test in? I mean he is expected to take the SAT multiple times, Act possibly, SAT II for at least two subjects and then countless AP Tests. </p>
<p>Well, I only took the SAT test once for college, and that was junior year. I think most people only take it once or twice. If they take it again, it is taken usually in the fall of senior year. </p>
<p>I don’t really remember, but I thought the SATIIs were all taken the same day. It has been almost two decades since I did this myself. </p>
<p>I didn’t take the ACT, either. It is only worthwhile if you think you might do better on it. </p>
<p>AP’s tend to be scheduled at the end of the school year. I would take AP’s in whatever AP class that you happen to be taking that year. </p>
<p>My D says the best way to prep is take the practice test under real test-taking circumstances (timed and sitting at a desk with minimal distractions). Go through the test, check the answers, correct the problems, and identify areas that need to be addressed, look for patterns in your mistakes, and review any areas that you have questions about. And do that over and over again. He’ll see that score improve. He may want to go ahead and take the SAT2 early next year (there’s an October test date) while the applicable math is fresh in his mind; he won’t need CalcBC for the SAT2 Math2. </p>
<p>Also, if he hasn’t done much test prep, he should review some of the test prep materials that describe strategies, because that can really affect scores with SAT-type exams. Time management and problem approach, for example, can make a real difference.</p>
<p>Don’t worry about his sophomore scores. D hates the SAT format (prefers the ACT approach where guessing is not penalized), but she saw her PSAT scores increase by 30 points with very little prep from sophomore to junior year. Her sophomore scores were similar to your son’s, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see that happen for him as well. </p>
<p>D’s not even taking the SAT…unless her PSAT qualifies and she decides to try for NMF. She took the ACT once and did “well enough.” She’ll have to take it again during our state-mandated testing, but she’s happy with her ACT score as it stands. She still thought she might take a couple SAT2’s…the test in May is right before the AP physics exam, so she thought she’d be “studied up” for it and she’ll do bio and math in the fall when she comes back from her summer program. I think she’s developed a test addiction. 
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<p>It’s not that hard to fit in the testing.
Kid 1: SAT 1, Mar and May junior year, SAT 2 (3 subject tests) June senior year
Kid 2: SAT1, Mar junior year, fall senior year, SAT 2 May and June(3 subject tests each time, but he only took them again because he foolishly took Math 2 even though he knew he’d score poorly from the practice tests - not a math kid)
Kid 1 took Math2, Physics and US history (comp sci major)
Kid 2 took Math2, Bio E, US history the first time then the second time Bio M (just to see if he could do better than his perfectly fine score), US History (ditto) and Lit
Both kids had one school on their list that required 3 subject tests. I’m not sure if there are any that still require 3.</p>
<p>APs they took with the classes. Some APs provided very good prep for the SAT subject tests as well - US History and Biology in particular.</p>
<p>There is usually a lot of testing junior year, but there’s a lot of overlap. My kids didn’t do a lot of studying for anything but the APs.</p>
<p>mathmom, can I ask about taking the SAT 2 june senior year? </p>
<p>Is that common? So they were not part of either Kid’s application? I appoligize if this is a common known thing. </p>
<p>Thanks for all the replies. They are very helpful. I can say this site has been more helpful then the HS guidance. </p>