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<p>No need to argue this anymore. I just want to say that you will regret what you just said.
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<p>I thik we have a young pat robertson in the making. Whats it going to be? lightning, a meteor? maybe a firestorm??</p>
<p>Oh yes, by the way, i have waged a personal war on pat robertson.</p>
<p>What do you guys think is more complicated, the universe, or God?
Cause if God is more complex, then it's easier to believe that the universe could have come about on its own than God.</p>
<p>And you can't say the universe is more complex, b/c in your beliefs, God created it.</p>
<p>thats nice, another self sufficient statement (kinda like the bible)</p>
<p>"You lived your life in ignorance submitting to an ideal that is of no significance. that is what is to lose."</p>
<p>Actually you're already dead so you can't come to that realization that you lived a life of "no significance" - so you lost nothing. When you were believing/praying you did not lose nothing; but just gained comfort, because prayer gives comfort. Therefore his original statement is accurate: You lose nothing.</p>
<p>*And let me just add that it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE for the "Earth" to be set a perfect 93 million miles away from the Sun so it that can sustain human life "by chance". If you people think the universe originated "by chance" you honestly need to do some more research - there are innumerable laws in the universe that all correspond with one another accordingly which therefore reaches the conclusion that it was impossible for all these laws to have "accidentally" come into place. They were crafted; pre-determined.</p>
<p>The concept of God in this thread seems like someone who just made the universe and that's it. I think the original poster's intent when creating this title "How many of you believe in God" was a question of whether people think "something" made the universe and that's it.</p>
<p>When I saw this thread, I thought about GOD, meaning His answering prayers, His relationship to people, His way about getting to know Him, etc; NOT something that just "Made the universe and that's it". In other words I think we should talk more about God on the PERSONAL level (meaning how he answers mankind's cry to help) and not on the stupid, boring, tedious, scientific level in trying to see who made this, who made that, and so forth.</p>
<p>baller4lyfe, ever think that the Sun wasn't situated like that not to sustain human life, but that human life exists because the Sun was that far away? And, by chance, were it not that far away, we won't exist. There are 8 other planets (or 7 if you want to argue about Pluto), and they don't have people. Maybe there are other life forms; I can't really bring myself to care.</p>
<p>We, as humans, are not the center of the universe.</p>
<p>Yes, there are laws in the universe that correspond with one another. It's all about balance. Balance doesn't need to be created by a higher being.</p>
<p>"Actually you're already dead so you can't come to that realization that you lived a life of "no significance" - so you lost nothing. When you were believing/praying you did not lose nothing; but just gained comfort, because prayer gives comfort. Therefore his original statement is accurate: You lose nothing."</p>
<p>I disagree. To believe so blindly is to lead a life of ignorance. You do lose something--a whole lifetime of something. Yeah, we die and end up all in the same state (or relatively the same state, mummification, cremation, natural burial, whatever). People who live zealously religious lives (religious in single-deity worship, not as in Buddhism or Shintoism, et al) will die living for nothing.</p>
<p>It comes to the question: who to live for? Yourself, or a god you really don't know anything about but insist on believing simply because you can't fathom that things are the way they are?</p>
<p>Religion's purpose is to simplify living, I think. We're humans; it's natural for us to want laws to govern society. Religion is a man-made object, disposed for those who can't comprehend that they cannot possibly explain or know everything. How did life come to be? Oh why, a god made it! Why do we breathe to live? Oh why, a god decided it! Why did that innocent woman die? Oh why, god needed her!</p>
<p>Sounds like ignorance to me.</p>
<p>As eras progress as humans progress, religion becomes less of a factor. When innovation ceases, religion rules.</p>
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When you were believing/praying you did not lose nothing; but just gained comfort, because prayer gives comfort. Therefore his original statement is accurate: You lose nothing.
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<p>For most religions, you lose time, effort, money, energy, all while being stuck in a fantasy. Oh, and you don't get to think for yourself on top of that. Doesn't sound that great to me.</p>
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In other words I think we should talk more about God on the PERSONAL level (meaning how he answers mankind's cry to help) and not on the stupid, boring, tedious, scientific level in trying to see who made this, who made that, and so forth.
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<p>Sounds similar to young children having imaginary friends and talking to them.</p>
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For most religions, you lose time, effort, money, energy, all while being stuck in a fantasy. Oh, and you don't get to think for yourself on top of that. Doesn't sound that great to me.
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<p>As a person with experience in prayer (unlike you LOL), I know that you are wrong. </p>
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Sounds similar to young children having imaginary friends and talking to them.
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<p>Its sounds very mature to me. At least he/she is not ignorant.</p>
<p>This is something I have a hard time fathoming (hyptothetical situation):</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Buddhist monk who devotes his entirety to charity work and living a life of peace. Let's get creative and say he rescues two infants from a burning hut. By Christian standards, he's condemned to eternal damnation in hell because he does not accept Jesus Christ as his savior.</p></li>
<li><p>Mentally deranged serial killer claims 30 victims in his lifetime. He honestly believes he is a "messenger of God" send to do "His bidding." Mr. Fanatic is rewarded with glory in Heaven. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Cool. That's fair. </p>
<p>If there were an afterlife, I would sooner believe that it is based on one's deeds on Earth rather than one's beliefs.</p>
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1. Buddhist monk who devotes his entirety to charity work and living a life of peace. Let's get creative and say he rescues two infants from a burning hut. By Christian standards, he's condemned to eternal damnation in hell because he does not accept Jesus Christ as his savior.
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<p>Hmm, you can never tell. God is most merciful and gracious and indeed God will have mercy on a soul as pure as the buddhist monk. Idk about Christianity, but Buddha is supposedly another prophet of Islam.</p>
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Mentally deranged serial killer claims 30 victims in his lifetime. He honestly believes he is a "messenger of God" send to do "His bidding." Mr. Fanatic is rewarded with glory in Heaven.
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<p>I doubt many religious people will fall for his lies. According to my Holy Book, there will be many infedels claiming to be the messenger of God, and they will go to hell.</p>
<p>"Hmm, you can never tell. God is most merciful and gracious and indeed God will have mercy on a soul as pure as the buddhist monk. Idk about Christianity, but Buddha is supposedly another prophet of Islam."</p>
<p>Er, no, he wasn't.</p>
<p>Buddhism = an atheist religion. Buddha = a teacher, not a god.</p>
<p>"I doubt many religious people will fall for his lies. According to my Holy Book, there will be many infedels claiming to be the messenger of God, and they will go to hell."</p>
<p>It doesn't matter if religious people will fall for his lies. After all, wasn't it you who said it only mattered what your god said?</p>
<p>And what if this killer truly and holistically believed he was doing was right according to what he truly believed his god was telling him?</p>
<p>Are you saying then that he does not deserve to go to heaven? Because, in your opinion, your god is omnipotent, and therefore he must have made this individual think this way. What if this person prayed more devoutly than Christian monks and the such and truly believed he was becoming a martyr?</p>
<p>Are you saying your god will condemn him to hell because he believed too much?</p>
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Are you saying then that he does not deserve to go to heaven? Because, in your opinion, your god is omnipotent, and therefore he must have made this individual think this way. What if this person prayed more devoutly than Christian monks and the such and truly believed he was becoming a martyr?
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<p>I believe what GOD says, not what one crazy killer says. God said that killing is an extremely sinful deed, and if he breaks that idea, then obviously he isnt God's messenger :) </p>
<p>Prolly atheits will believe a crazy killer, but a person true to the words of God will certainly won't.</p>
<p>It's kind of established that he isn't God's messenger.</p>
<p>The key here is that he, as a mentally unstable sociopath, believes in his deeds. Which really doesn't matter since he accepts that Jesus died for his sins, which is the only requisite to eternal salvation, no?</p>
<p>"I believe what GOD says, not what one crazy killer says. God said that killing is an extremely sinful deed, and if he breaks that idea, then obviously he isnt God's messenger</p>
<p>Prolly atheits will believe a crazy killer, but a person true to the words of God will certainly won't."</p>
<p>And you're telling me that you know exactly what God says to you?</p>
<p>Killing is a sinful deed. In God's black and white world, are there no exceptions? There have wars fought so Christianity could survive (and what a waste, but I digress)... these people who fought and died and killed for Christianity--it's sinful, right, because now millions of others believe in this nonsensical religion?</p>
<p>And, atheists will NOT believe the crazy killer, 'cos then it would imply that a belief in god.</p>
<p>Atheism doesn't imply stupidity, you know. Religion doesn't imply stupidity. Ignorance, maybe.</p>
<p>And pray tell, where do these words of god exist? The Bible was written by men, not god. Who are you to say what is the true doctrine of your god?</p>
<p>"
I disagree. To believe so blindly is to lead a life of ignorance. You do lose something--a whole lifetime of something. Yeah, we die and end up all in the same state (or relatively the same state, mummification, cremation, natural burial, whatever). People who live zealously religious lives (religious in single-deity worship, not as in Buddhism or Shintoism, et al) will die living for nothing."</p>
<p>Who said you have to live a "zealously religious life"? I'm not a religious person and I pray to God. If you're talking about Fathers, Priests, Imamas, Rabiis, (or however you spell it), then this would be true. But normal people like me who believe in God and love Him can easily maintain their daily lives just like anyone else does. No one said you have to be "deeply religious" to be with God. I'm not religious, once again, and yet I feel close to him.</p>
<p>In regard to the claims made by religion: Christianity claims that if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, you are going to hell. I don't agree with this.</p>
<p>Islam claims that if you associate others with the oneness of God (meaning you view Jesus as a cohort of God) - you are an infidel and will go to hell. I don't agree with this.</p>
<p>I view that anyone who has a religion of Abraham (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) are all people of heaven.</p>
<p>the problem with Christianity and Islam is that each religion views the other as illegitimate. Christians thinks Islam is false, Muslims think Christianity is false. When are they going to seek resolution among one another and not refutation?</p>
<p>Backing up, the notion of God in the PERSONAL level is what I thought this thread was about. Not from the scientific level of "who made atoms, what made matter, whade made space, etc). I think talking about God in the personal sense is much more satisfying than the scientific sense.</p>
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Killing is a sinful deed. In God's black and white world, are there no exceptions?
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<p>I can see you dont read holy books much. You can kill in self defense or for fighting in defense of a religion (aka jihad).</p>
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Atheism doesn't imply stupidity, you know. Religion doesn't imply stupidity. Ignorance, maybe
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<p>Its apparent that atheists are ignorant.</p>
<p>"I can see you dont read holy books much. You can kill in self defense or for fighting in defense of a religion (aka jihad)."</p>
<p>That goes back the serial killer. The serial killer: say he truly believed he was defending Christianity. He truly believed it; does it matter if he was mentally unstable?</p>
<p>"Its apparent that atheists are ignorant."</p>
<p>Because I said that atheism nor piety implies stupidity? Amazing.</p>
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The serial killer: say he truly believed he was defending Christianity. He truly believed it; does it matter if he was mentally unstable?
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<p>For him to be defending Christianity, there has to be someone in offense the religion to begin with.</p>
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Its apparent that atheists are ignorant.
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<p>How? Just calling us names doesn't prove anything.</p>
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As a person with experience in prayer (unlike you LOL), I know that you are wrong.
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<p>I was once a Christian, so I also have experience in prayer. True, I think that prayer can have a physical effect. I've read some studies on this. It also applies to, for example, chanting or meditation. Feeling the effect of prayer doesn't imply that god or anyone else is answering, just your own body.</p>
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I believe what GOD says
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<p>How do you know what god says? You can know what your parents, your priest, your thousands of years old book says. You can assume you feel god speaking to you. So do millions of others, from different gods, and with different messages. The 9/11 terrorists could probably say something to the effect that they were listening to god. Not that I'm equating you with them.</p>
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Its sounds very mature to me.
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<p>If the person believed in Zeus or Qetzocoatl, would you still find them mature?</p>