<p>First of all, this is a stupid debate. The outcome of the discussion in this forum will not change atheists to religious people and vice versa. People have their beliefs, and its best not one not to influence them. I've skimmed the 30+ pages and all of the comments are repeating itself. I respect atheits for their beliefs (or lack of), and one cannot do anything but respect them for who they are.</p>
<p>As much as I believe in the existance of Noah, I strong doubt there will be satellite images of his ark, especially after thousands of years. If you need his ark to "proove" to atheits the existance of God, than that is truly shameful indeed.</p>
<p>If you don't like the discussion, then don't read it. I read this for my own interest and post when I feel I need to. If you religious convictions, or anyone's don't change, then fine. That isn't necessarily the point.</p>
<p>I believe that there is something. That would make me agnostic... but then consider that even if you just believe that there is something up there why can't you name it God? Is it not virtually the same? I guess I believe in God but with an agnostic twist.</p>
<p>Another reason is that I believe it utterly ludicrous that "evolution" exists... natural selection yes, but genes "magically" changing to make something bigger and better? N-O... for crazy people. And if there is no upper being then how in the world did we come to exist?... Fairy dust? The Big Bang followed by evolution of prokaryotes?</p>
<p>^^Good point, but if you ask that question, than I would ask you how did god come to exist? I think it was Aquinas who did extensive work making the claim that everything that happens has a cause, so what was the cause of god? That's equally hard to explain as is the genes "magically" changing.</p>
<p>Haha, I think the same thing about God's existence. I was just talking to my friend the other day about the fact that truly... we shouldn't exist. By all things that we hold true it is impossible. There is no beginning, no end. Does time travel in a straight line, or out in all directions... Creating the possibility that there are infinite "realms" joining at a center point and fanning out in an ongoing circle. How did we come to be here? Does ou choice of college even matter? It's all relative. I just happen to believe in something for the explanation that for some reason we are here beyond all possibility.</p>
<p>I think the question of "Then where did God come from?" is easily answered.</p>
<p>The concepts of "beginning" and "end" are only part of our universe. Everything in our universe has a beginning and an end.
But... the universe is one of God's creations. Just because it has beginnings and ends, it does not mean God also needs to have those.</p>
<p>Take a sculptor and his work, a sculpture. The sculpture is made of clay. It cannot breathe, it cannot think, it cannot move, it cannot do anything at all. The sculptor, however, is in no way bound by those rules. He can move, think, breathe, and change his creation in any way he wants.
Just because the universe had a 'beginning,' it does not mean God, being omnipotent, must follow the same law (after all, he created the 'law' of beginnings).</p>
<p>Why is God capitalized? "A god" isn't capitalized, so are we giving some extra respect to this ONE "God?" Why add this unnecessary distance between you and someone whom you should probably love and be loved back by?</p>
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Another reason is that I believe it utterly ludicrous that "evolution" exists... natural selection yes, but genes "magically" changing to make something bigger and better?
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<p>Except that we've already observed it. We've already observed it. We've already observed it.</p>
<p>Oh man, I feel like a broken record. A broken record. A broken record.</p>
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Your ignorance truly shows when you can't argue in a civil manner. That creationist website talks about noahs ark near ararat not on it.
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<p>Sorry, but I've shown TWO sources that have said that the chances of the ark being an actual boat are nil. TWO sources. You've shown us nothing.</p>
<p>death<em>by</em>happiness, I mean that if we were to say "A few Franks are standing over there," (perhaps at a national Frank convention or something), then we would still capitalize. But we don't capitalize when we refer to God as a figure, e.g., "One central theme in early cultures is the existence of a god." Is that right?</p>
<p>It is not just our existence... it is the existence of everything. Things have beginnings, and yet there is no beginning to time. It is neverending, and yet how can something exist (such as the universe) if it never began in the first place... in essence, existence contradicts itself. And obviously it is not impossible... only theoretically so, because we are here aren't we?</p>
<p>A lot of people talk about the big bang but I just read something from a few aging physicists saying that they didnt believe in the big bang but a perpetually expanding and contracting universe. It didnt just begin. It had been there. And merely seemed to be a beginning just as you begin a new phase of you're life when you change jobs or graduate. A rapid "new" expansion like many to previously come before it.</p>
<p>Do I believe in God? Maybe. Do I believe in religion? Hell NO! Why? Because I believe that a blinding, systematic faith in something that would cause willful ignorance to other matters is wrong. When surveyed some 40% of scientists believe in God. When going to the National Academy the number drops to 10%. That's pretty big. Does my hatred of religion cause a loss in spirituality? No. Just because I'm not religious doesn't mean I'm not spiritual.</p>
<p>Also there is something known as the god gene. The people that have it are more likely to believe in a god and be more faithful and religious. Does this mean more in a typically religion? Actually no. It merely means more spiritual.</p>
<p>I think it is comforting and easier to believe in the spiritual, religious, and supernatural but by putting religious blindfolds on in the name of our god and calling it faith is a willingness to lose sight on other points-of-view that do not support that god. So in my objective view of religion as the embedded manipulation of mankind (religion has been used for political agendas and proving the non-rightgeousness, sinning nature of anything and everything from gay-marriage to anti-slavery views to the sun's revolution around the earth and the spherical nature of our planet.) it has done more to cause pain and suffering than good and kindness and in my view of a traditional "God" is that is a good guy with a lot of dumb followers willing to use "His" power for there own idealogues and extension of their own power. In my view of God, if he exists (this isn't going to win me any fans), is that He isn't a very good one.</p>
<p>I've read a lot of work on universal inflation/deflation, but I think the consensus these days is that the universe is just going to eventually expand and snuff itself out.</p>
<p>Pretty bleak, but at least I won't have to worry about paying my bills anymore.</p>
<p>yeah, He does. the prof tells us he exists in other forms of god as well. you know, in Muslim he's Bathala (i think) and Buddha in the Buddhists mind... you get the idea.</p>
<p>i don't think it's a good idea to debate whether or not he exists because for one thing, everyone in this site happens to come from diff spiritual backgrounds (which in turn means that there are ones who have this crazy attitude of being 'close-minded') and for another, God is simply beyond the scope of even the smartest people in the world. i don't think even Einstein can succeed.</p>
<p>It is foolish to debate how God began. He is God not human. We can't comprehend this because we have such finite minds. How did evolution begin? Where did the primordial soup come from? What about the lightning. God is God. In the Bible, "For my ways are higher than your ways and your thoughts my thoughts.
Evolution has been chemically tested in the lab already. Do you know what happened? NOTHING! Nothing has ever evolved chemically in the laboratory.</p>