How many of you "help" fill out apps?

Parents Forum
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<p>My D applied to 17 schools and submitted four very complicated scholarship applications. Yes, I helped her in terms of keeping a spreadsheet of dates and deliverables. I also proofread and caught quite a few typos. I also prepared the envelopes for her teacher recommendations. My biggest involvement was telling her to cut her essays down in length. She completely ignored my advice on the content. But getting her to cut took a lot of strength. She was exhausted, stressed and didn't want to hear that from me but I stood my ground and back she went and cut she did. I think I deserve a medal for that contribution. </p>

<p>As for why so many applications? Simple. The insane level of competition. She was honestly not sure she would get in anywhere except our state public university. No other school seemed truly like a safety to her and her stats are extremely high. She had watched the seniors ahead of her get shocking rejections and she expected to get some herself. So she cast a very wide net and we consider the cost quite a bargain if she nets several good options. I honestly think it's kind of foolhardy at this point for students to take the traditional "3 safeties/3 matches/2 reaches" approach. Even my D's GC who was initially unhappy with her decision to send out so many applications recently told me that it is in fact probably the smartest approach and one he will start recommending. It's all about the competition.</p>

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<p>What if there is no essay to write? My neighbor filled out all of her S's apps. completely. They were all to State U's with no essay required. I was there while she was doing it saying she had spent several hours in front of the computer while her S (who was out of sch. that day for a teacher workday) was out with friends for the afternoon !!!</p>

<p>I know the apps. weren't too complicated because my S had applied to a couple of the same schools and he did it himself fairly quickly.
I asked why her S was not participating in his college applications. She replied that he was such a procrastinator that she was afraid he would never get it done on time if left up to him. So she decided to do it herself for her own peace of mind!</p>

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<p>I went through this twice with DS.</p>

<p>Time 1 (freshman apps): I made sure he went through the entire process once. Filling in all of the blanks on the form, blah blah blah. Then I was more than happy to do the secretarial part after that on other repetitive forms. He showed his essays to me (as well as his GC and English teacher). He followed my advice that one in which he tried humor didn't come across the way he wanted and changed tack. He did all essays, short answers himself.</p>

<p>Time 2: ("forced" transfer after Tulane eliminated his major post-Katrina). He, of course, wrote the essays and I and some of my cc friends reviewed them. He made some of the changes we suggested; others he didn't.</p>

<p>Other than that, I did every single freakin' step of the process for him. Filled out every form, ordered all of the test scores, provided the stamped envelopes for prof recs, followed up to see what did and didn't get to the schools on time (mega-problems with USMail out of New Orleans at that time). I didn't want him to have to do one little bitty thing more than absolutely necessary. His first year of college was mega-disruped by Katrina; he handled it better than well. I wanted him to have one term with some semblance of "normal college life." I was happy and proud to helicopter in.</p>

<p>I realize this is a "special" situation. Just shows to go you that every situation is different.</p>

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<p>DS and I have split duties on entering the biographical/demographic information. On one app, he listed DH's job title as "faceless bureaucrat." Wonder if that will help or hurt with FA or merit $$$!! </p>

<p>He had eight schools on his list, added one in September, has since dropped it without applying, dropped two others and added one more. Has five apps submitted, will send in two more by 1/1. </p>

<p>We bought a wipe-off calendar to track deadlines. I will admit to maintaining that. Also have a box with expandable files for each school that I maintain. We email each other all the time with links for scholarship apps, interesting articles, the latest gossip, etc. I hope that is a tradition we can maintain when he leaves next fall.</p>

<p>DS is an excellent proofreader and very speedy typist, so I don't have to worry much on that front. At this stage of the game, when he asks me to read an essay, I try to stick to general comments or ask him questions. His strength is not in creative, flowery writing, but in saying things that are organized, logical, funny and very much in his voice. (If any colleges looked at his SAT essay vs. his college essays, they would know it's the same guy.) </p>

<p>He did not share his essays with anyone except DH, me, and his English teacher, who saw a couple early drafts of his Why Chicago essay. (His teacher didn't like it.) He has since shared essays with a couple of people whose judgment he respects, and has gotten very positive feedback. (I knew they were good, but I didn't expect the reaction he has received.)</p>

<p>DH and I have both done lots of writing and editing in our careers, and the process of helping our kids edit their work has gone on for years, dropping off once they are in high school. Both my kids have internalized the editing process, and so now we stand back and offer thoughts only when asked. That said, DS has a 2" stack of drafts in the dining room.</p>

<p>I typed mailing labels; brought DS with me to Office Depot/the post office, etc. to pick out envelopes, weigh envelopes, get stamps, fill out Fed Ex labels, etc. He needs to know how to do this stuff. We are also fortunate that we started having conversations about schools, finances, etc. several years ago -- it has made that part of the process very collaborative and stress-free.</p>

<p>DS has been very busy this fall with some terrific things that have come his way -- he's busting his tail, so I am happy to make things easier where I can. We didn't know five and a half years ago if I'd get to see this, so I relish every moment.</p>

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<p>I think unless a kid has a broken arm or in a coma, that they should fill out their own applications- </p>

<p>My D printed out a copy of the common application- filled it out, I gave her the information on H and M, etc. and she did the rest...I proofed that ONCE, and never saw another part of the application</p>

<p>At the beginning of the process she and I went and stocked up on all supplies and she would let me know if she needed anything else</p>

<p>Having a secratary do it seems bizarre to me...what the kid doesn't need to know how to fill out an express envelope form?</p>

<p>No mater how "busy" they are, something has to give when its about THIER future</p>

<p>We talk about how busy they are, well part of growing up is learning about priorities and that sometimes, something has to give</p>

<p>How will they ever learn if mommy and daddy step in and don't allow the student to make those tough choices</p>

<p>for instance a trip to australia during application time- that seems to be a choice</p>

<p>what these kids can't miss a club meeting at school to take care of their own applications</p>

<p>lots of justification going on to do the kids work for them by parents</p>

<p>sometimes parents have to say- this week, you don't tutor, this is about YOU and those kids will have to suck it up</p>

<p>I am very serious about this- when these kids get to college, will they overschedule themselves so much, not be able to say NO in order to take care of their own stuff because they have not been told that its okay and important to take care of yourself?</p>

<p>and seems lots of rescuing going on for procratinators</p>

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<p>why don't parents say NO< you need to do applications and you will NOT attend that meeting, you will not tutor, you need to make a choice</p>

<p>making choices is part of growing up and if we cover for them, and take up slack for something that is THEIR process, even if its writing in an address, we aren't allowing them to learn, imo</p>

<p>We are afrad to tell our kids too much is too much and that they can't do it all and again, if filling out your own college applications isn't a priority, what in the world is</p>

<p>and if you don't think applying to 16 colleges doesn't hurt anyone else or the process, that is naive</p>

<p>it feeds the fear, the frenzy, the panic, the ego, etc</p>

<p>the insane level of competition is partly a self fullfilling profecy</p>

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<p>I filled out all the coursework information for the UC applications. Very laborious as there were three menus to walk through for each course! Son had lots of homework that week, was polishing his essay, and was sick with a cold. He did look over my shoulder near the end so he could check what I was entering. Of course, he put in the essay. He says he plans to fill out all the info for the common ap and the supplements for each private school. His vacation starts on Friday so he will have more time. Plus, now he knows what's involved.</p>

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<p>I filled out my applications entirely on my own. My parents only checked that the information was correct (with me present) and read my essays and short answers - for grammatical errors, etc. only; they had no say over content.</p>

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<p>lots of course work THAT week...why are these kids waiting until the last minute</p>

<p>are these kids picking their schools two weeks before the deadline</p>

<p>I know many families that put there foots down, back in Oct and Nov, because the kids don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of time management for applications</p>

<p>parents, you can so, back in September, you need to have a plan, and I will not fill ot forms for you, but I will make you stay in on friday and satruday nights if necessary</p>

<p>Are we so afraid to set boundaries for our teens</p>

<p>Seems so</p>

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<p>my D looked at the deadlines for each scchool and set her own deadlines 2 weeks earlier</p>

<p>she set aside time each week to work on applications- she juggled her commitments, saw when it was the busy time, and did most of the simple stuff right away, with only essays to be tweaked</p>

<p>part of being a parent is helping, but part is also teaching them how to do it themselves</p>

<p>our thoughts were if something happened, a house fire, a broken arm, an illness, a major project, there needed to be enough time cushion so she could do the applications herself</p>

<p>Its amazing what one hour a sunday can do if you start in Oct</p>

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<p>I think some of these kids lack the anxiety gene and the time management gene. I know of kids that did it all in the last 2 days. Friend of my D took 2 days off school to START the UC app and get the essays done, and submitted 5 mins to the midnight deadline. Same kid apparently still has 8 apps to do. If that had been my child I think I would have moved out of the house from the anxiety and frustration. It's taking such a chance not to have a safety net if something goes wrong. I thank my lucky stars that my D finished everything with a good two or three weeks before deadlines, and that she's like me, the type that insists on being at the airport a good 3 hours in advance of a flight. Call it obsessive but it sure helps keep the peace and one's sanity intact. I guess some people thrive on the adrenalin and risk, but it doesn't work in this household.</p>

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<p>Well, I need to reiterate my previous post where I mentioned that there are no "FINITE" answers to this scenario. Each case is different. Some people like to be extremists and believe that the entire world revolves around their perception of the world. It doesn't. Each kid is different. Each case where a parent did or didn't assist their kid in the college application process is unique. If you believe that a parent is NEVER justified in assisting the kid, or that the kid should ALWAYS do it themselves except in the case of a broken arm or coma, then you are wrong. Plain and simply put, you are wrong. There are no absolutes. To assume there are is wrong.</p>

<p>Now, are there some parents that did more for their kid in the app process than they should have? Most definitely yes. Are there some kids who didn't do anything, or much less than they should have contributed? Most definitely yes. Should ALL KIDS ALWAYS have to do the entire application process themselves? No. Should ALL PARENTS ALWAYS stay out of the application process for their kids? No. </p>

<p>FWIW; My son and I as a team did 7 college applications. 2 in August; 3 in September; and 2 others the first week of October. So much for procrastinating. Also FWIW; all 7 have come back as accepted already.</p>

<p>People need to stop being extremists. Each child is different. Each family situation is different. How my kids were raised, their schedule, their time, etc... is different than your kid. Doesn't make either kid better than any one else. Just different.</p>

<p>The REAL answer to the question is; "QUESTION: SHOULD A PARENT HELP OR NOT HELP THEIR KIDS WITH THEIR COLLEGE APPLICATIONS? ANSWER: YES"!!! There are times when a kid deserves their parents help and if the parent can assist them they should. As should their guidance counselor or other school official. There are also times when when the kid doesn't deserver the help or maybe doesn't need the help because their schedule isn't that demanding. In which case the parent or such might not need to help. </p>

<p>We don't all live in each other's world. Anyone who believes in the extreme of always and never in just about any subject is usually wrong. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with competition and providing yourself with as many options as possible. I suggest applying to as many schools that you want to; as long as they are schools that you have a legitimate interest in attending.</p>

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<p>"For instance a trip to australia during application time- that seems to be a choice"</p>

<p>Yep, it was. It was wonderful. It made sure the applications were done (both kids were applying that year). We had a great time. And I didn't care that neither of them did the scut work... I made sure they did the thinking!</p>

<p>Oh, and today my son helped me with a project, addressing envelopes and putting on stamps, and so on. He even bought the stamps for me.</p>

<p>As a family, we do a lot of mutual aid. Applications were just another area where we all pitched in as we could.</p>

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<p>dmd77: VERY WELL SAID!!!</p>

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<p>Oh yes, and they decorated the Xmas tree as well. Leave it up to me I would have flunked Xmas tree decorations 101. An important life skill I'm sure!</p>

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<p>At our house, I think the big calendar is more for <em>my</em> benefit than DS's. He had most of the dates, etc. loaded on his Google calendar so if I asked him, "have you..." he had already taken care of it. I need the visual reminder, esp. since I am juggling lots of things.</p>

<p>I haven't had to worry one bit about his teacher/supplemental recs, school reports, etc. He handled all of that, including follow-up, himself. (He had asked teachers if they'd write recs last spring, and contacted them before school to arrange for forms, folders, envelopes, etc.) Suffice it to say (for a variety of reasons I won't disclose here) I thought that was a more important task for him to handle than data entry. </p>

<p>DS submitted Part 1 of two applications in mid-August and had the Common App (except essays) done by mid-September. It's been a hectic fall, but it has been a LOT of fun. No late night madness or all-night writing sessions.</p>

<p>Probably the biggest boon to getting his apps organized early was that he was also writing a major research paper in Aug.-Sept. and submitting it to competitions in Oct.-Nov. I didn't need to nag -- he KNEW he had to be on top of things, and had good motivation to do so.</p>

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<p>I acted as the administrative assistant. I reminded S of deadines and helped to keep all the documents organized. I actually had more time to do that kind of thing than he did. He worked on schoolwork (including 4 AP classes), tutored, and played in a fall varsity sport. He wrote all essays for college apps and the many scholarship apps. I looked over essays and made very general comments (difficult for me, as I am an editor by profession, but I sat on my red pen!) We were a team, and my role was support person. He'd do the same for me in a heartbeat.</p>

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<p>Wow, I'm surprised at some of the vehemence about this! I agree with Chriscorp -- I don't think you can make blanket statements about what all students or all parents should or should not do. My son didn't wait until the last minute. He started essays in the summer, and for all the short answer supplements and essays, did one a day for most of October/November, revising them every few days. In our case, first high school had not properly certified classes via the UC system, issued incorrect transcripts, etc. </p>

<p>He transfered senior year to another high school because of the problems. Because of this, we had a lot of extra work to do to document his coursework, push for transcripts, etc. His new high school was graduating their first class, so they didn't have a system in place -- every step was new to them. As I said, they <em>expected</em> parents to be involved, because they didn't have a dedicated GC or staff that did that. The school still has a core expectation that parents will be involved in the college selection and application process. Many students are first generation college, so their families don't know anything about the process or financial aid. Because of this, the school has parent-led workshops for families and does a lot of work to get whole families involved in the process.</p>

<p>There weren't any EC's or anything for my son to drop, or meetings to miss. He was in school until late in the day (4 PM), and then had evening college classes and coursework for all of that until 1 AM each night. As I said, his job was to be an amazing student, to make sure he would get accepted into the schools that would help him with aid. I agree in our high school's policy that families work together as a team on college admissions, instead of making it a student-only responsibility. After all, those choices affect the entire family, not just the student.</p>

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<p>I'm certainly with all of you who have said that it depends on the kid/situation/etc. I agree that parents should NEVER write the essays and short answers. Like mafool, I had to hold back and have more general comments, but I did the proofreader stuff on everything. And yes, D was certainly capable of doing all the data input on her apps, but I felt that her time away from school was better spent studying, and actually writing all the various essays, required at the same time for the college apps and merit scholarship apps. I had the time, she did not. She was the one with the color-coded file system and expando files....I was the typist. It eased her anxiety level, which was a good thing. No, I won't be there in the future to "ease her anxiety", which was one more reason that made me happy to help her then.</p>

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<p>"Parents involved with their kid's education. Elementary, Jr High, High School AND College". Damn; what a concept!!!</p>

<p>Now; imagine if those on the CC forum weren't the minority? We are unfortunately. You can easily see that by going through all the different forums here. Most kids are taking AP, IB, Honors, or at least have high goals for a continued education. But if the average parent was involved since the 1st grade with their kid's education, I wonder how less teen pregnancy; drug and alcohol addiction; high school drop outs; (68.8% for 2005) would be.</p>

<p>HigherEdInfo.org:</a> Public High School Graduation Rates</p>

<p>Do not get me wrong. I am not implying that if you don't help your kid do their college application that you aren't involved with their education. DON'T READ INTO THIS. I'm just stating that I think it's awesome that the parents here are indeed so involved with their kids. Even those we don't necessarily agree with on this topic. The fact that parents are on this forum shows their involvement. It's just a shame that more parents aren't as involved.</p>

<p>I know people will state a million reasons why kids aren't doing as well in school. Some will say it's the education system. Some will say it's economics. Some will say it's social influences from television/movies, peer pressure, etc... I personally believe it's because parents aren't as involved as they use to be with their kids. Including their education. Even if economics mean both parents or a single parent needs to work, they need to be involved with their kid's development. I know I am a different generation; but I came from the urban areas of New York City and New Jersey. My mom was always involved with us kids. Even until I was 7 years old before she got married and I had a step dad. Anyway; Kudos to everyone on this forum for caring about your kid's future. Kudos also for getting them this far and raising them so well.</p>