<p>I didn't say parents should or should not help out with biographical info. I merely said that the kids who get such help have an unfair advantage, but again, many aspects of this process are not fair (i.e. richer parents>more academic resources for the kids).</p>
<p>"I didn't say parents should or should not help out with biographical info. I merely said that the kids who get such help have an unfair advantage, but again, many aspects of this process are not fair (i.e. richer parents>more academic resources for the kids)."</p>
<p>Yeaahhhh. Just last night, my son and I were talking about how I when I was pregnant with him, we had so little money that we didn't have electricity for 4 months during the middle of winter, so we lived with oil lamps and had to take icy showers, and how I cried all the time because I was always afraid I would freeze to death in my sleep before he was born. There are lots of little stories like that in his childhood, things that we can laugh about now, but only because he and I have made it through them. </p>
<p>Given that, I don't feel for one minute that my son has had an unfair advantage over any other student. He's had the advantages I could give him, which have been counter balanced by the disadvantages he's endured, too.</p>
<p>Those with the most $$ can get the most help - what is her name? Michelle Hernandez?? Doesn't she cost tens of thousands of dollars?? </p>
<p>My son doesn't have a Michelle Hernandez. He has to put up with me looking over his application and editing his essays. If that seems unfair, think of those who can hire professionals to do this.</p>
<p>^I think I read one book, the author states around $30K for reading an essay once( plus other stuff). Hey at that rate, I think I save enough money to pay for Ivy league education for 4 years(I think I must read more than once).
What's fair? The DIY parents or the parents that can afford these package deal.</p>
<p>Wow, did I open up a can of worms! My personal feeling is if your child is ABLE to do the apps, they should do them on their own. ALL the info. No child is so busy that they can't take 2 hours out of a weekend to do something so important. Yes, my S takes all APs, works 20 hours a week, is in football, has a girlfriend, etc., etc., etc. But I told him if he REALLY wanted to apply to 5 schools, he was to make time to do so. Moms I know let their kids play video games all Thanksgiving break and didn't make them work on their apps! Then the MOMS did the grunt work! We are the parents and can take away the controls to the games until they are done!</p>
<p>Having said that, I do realize that not all kids are ABLE to do it on their own. At that point, parents should sit down and do it WITH the child, not FOR the child. And, if they are not able to complete a certain college's app, what hope do they have for succeeding at that college unless Mom goes with them? This is a great time to teach the kids organization and responsibility. Certainly not leave it totally up to them, but to TEACH them the skills they need to actually make it to class and not stay at the dorm and sleep in or play videos! Yes, it is certainly EASIER for a parent to take control, but it is not a growth experience for your child.</p>
<p>Okay, I admit, I haven't filled out a form for my kids since around 5th grade. If they want to go on the field trip, they fill out the form, I sign it. If they want to go to summer camp, they get to fill out the form. If they want to sign up for the dance competition, horse show, soccer tournament etc, they fill out the form. I figure I'm doing enough writing the checks. So needless to say, when it came to college aps, she didn't even ask.</p>
<p>^Same here. I don't think mine asks for help. I think parents are involved so they can sleep at night. Guilty!</p>
<p>Again; don't assume that just because a parent "Helps" their kid do the application that somehow the kid will be negatively affected. You are correct that all kids; including those who are productive all day long and aren't playing video games; do have a couple of free hours here and there that they could do the applications themselves. Where we disagree is that you and some others believe that the kid is somehow negatively affected if they don't do it themselves. That isn't necessarily true.</p>
<p>In the "Real World", people have many levels of responsibility. Almost always, each of us rely on other people contributing or doing their piece of the puzzle to get the larger project done. I personally am in charge of a very large telecommunications organization. My monthly "Phone" bill, for lack of a better term, is approximately $325,000. Yet, I rely on many other people in performing my job. Technicians, analysts, etc... Why is it any different that my child be part of a "Team". Learning to be responsible for their "Piece" of the puzzle? We can view this topic through many different windows. Just because you only see 1 window in this house, doesn't mean that it's the only view into the house.</p>
<p>Your assumption is that any kid who doesn't do 100% of a task won't know what to do when they are in a position where they are the only one available to do a task. There are exceptions to all situations. There are definitely some kids who don't know how to handle responsibilities. There are also plenty of kids who know how to handle responsibilities. There is just as much to be learned having a kid responsible for a portion of a project and having to be responsible to others and learning team work; as there is teaching a kid how to be responsible for 100% of a project and not to rely on anyone else. </p>
<p>Sorry, but there's just no convinving points being made that shows that teaching a kid to be 100% self reliant on their college applications has any benefit over the kid who has assistance from a parent. Again; no extremes here. Some kids are lazy. Maybe their parents have always done everything for them. Some kids are totally self sufficient. Maybe their parents never did anything for them. Both situations can be bad. One won't know how to provide for themself. The other won't know how to work together with others in a team environment. They will want to do the entire project on their own. (That isn't always possible). </p>
<p>I prefer to have a kid that is well balanced. WANTING help is different than NEEDING help. You have no idea whatsoever whether my kid or anyone elses is getting assistance from their parent because they want it and appreciate it because of their busy schedule; or whether they need it because they can't do anything on their own and can't organize their time. I know the answer for my kid. You probably know the answer for your kid. You also probably know how your kid would benefit or be affected negatively by you assisting them with their college applications. You don't however know one bit about how my kid or anyone elses will react and be affected by having assistance in doing their applications. Those are facts. Not opinions.</p>
<p>NO kid is busy 24-7, they have made CHOICES to be so busy, and part of growing up and maturing is learning how to prioritize and to say, well, I can't do everything i need to do or want to do, so comething has to give and i need to figure that out, because I have CHOSEN to do these things</p>
<p>If the excuse to do the work for your child is because the child is "too busy" that is just hogwash...the young person has to learn that they need to be decisions and choices in life and if mom and dad provide an environment where the child doesn't have to learn to make those decisions, then it IS not a good thing</p>
<p>For instance, my D had two really important events on one weekend- SHE needed to pick which one was the one she would attend, SHE came up with the criteria, and SHE made it work. It was a really valuable lesson</p>
<p>We have kids who have "meetings" for clubs and that is an excuse for delaying or having to have parents fill out forms</p>
<p>We ALL know how those meetings go, and if heaven forbid a kid opts to miss a meeting to do their applications, then it is a choice they made...part of maturing is learning the consequences of commitments we make, and if we over commit, don't plan, procrastinate, and some always covers for us, what lesson do we learn</p>
<p>Because my last post was rather long; and you didn't have the chance to read it in it's entirety; let me re-quote what I said that agrees with what you just said.</p>
<p>QUOTE: "You are correct that all kids; including those who are productive all day long and aren't playing video games; do have a couple of free hours here and there that they could do the applications themselves. Where we disagree is that you and some others believe that the kid is somehow negatively affected if they don't do it themselves. That isn't necessarily true."</p>
<p>In other words; just because they have free time; which all kids do; doesn't mean that they have to do the entire college application submission on their own. There is no evidence that shows that "ALL" kids are negatively affected because they had "HELP" doing this or any other task.</p>
<p>nevermind- there is no lesso ever to be learned by having to figure out in your life what is important- a meeting of filling out forms that will impact your entire life</p>
<p>eh, why have to even ponder that .... just let mom fill out your paperwork, so you don't have to even think</p>
<p>Some of you like to pass judgment because it makes you feel superior. But let me give you an example, my D's EC kept her until 10 P.M sometimes. Her teacher depends on her and her friend. I have to call everytime to get her home. This teacher threatens to lower students grade otherwise. I know DD did not know it was this time consuming before she signed up for this EC. I certainly didn't and this is an EC, she does not need it for graduation. But what would you say about her character if she were to drop this class, her teacher depends on her because she and her friends have strong work ethic. I'll bet you would criticize her if she were to drop this class. I'll bet you'll call her a quiter. Oh well, you can't please them all.</p>
<p>A friend of mine made a deal with her busy kid- he did a couple apps on his own and she did the rest (not the essays though). Fast forward- he's in college and doing fine. It didn't hurt him at all that she did the apps. I guess in some people's eyes, that's not fair and in a perfect world, he'd be helplessly flailing in college. Didn't happen.</p>
<p>Interesting, sort-of-related story:
My son had a teacher in middle school who was an ardent "arms-length from parents/parents stay away!" type person. She cloaked her evasiveness around parents with a "these kids need to learn more independence" argument. Years later, I found out that she was the most obsessively involved mother with her own kids- to the point that she contacted their college teachers, did their grad school applications, their resumes, their cover letters, etc. I always thought it was so weird that she was so adamant about 12/13 year olds being totally independent, and at the same time communicating with her 21 year old's professors about his grades.</p>
<p>*A friend of mine made a deal with her busy kid- he did a couple apps on his own and she did the rest (not the essays though). Fast forward- he's in college and doing fine. It didn't hurt him at all that she did the apps. I guess in some people's eyes, that's not fair and in a perfect world, he'd be helplessly flailing in college. Didn't happen.
*</p>
<p>Im stunned, just stunned
:rolleyes:</p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>Actually; I kind of like the idea of self sufficiency. Tonight when my wife asks me to bring her the dirty dishes off the dining room table; I'll remind her that she needs to do it herself so she doesn't rely on me and won't know how to do it when I die and am not there any longer. I guess I need to tell her the same thing when she asks me to look something up on the internet for her. She needs to do it herself because in the end it will make her a more self sufficient person.</p>
<p>However, that could backfire the next time I am working on one of our cars. "Honey; can you hand me that screwdrive"? "Do it yourself. You need to be more self sufficient". </p>
<p>But in all seriousness. Both of my kids are totally capable of taking care of themselves. They are excellent at time management. They schedule their homework time around all their other activities. Obviously they aren't occupied 24 hours a day. That doesn't mean however that they need to spend even more time doing other things. There isn't anything wrong with working together.</p>
<p>CGM; I do find your last post to be pretty disrespectful: Not offensive, because I am not offended by what strangers say. Disrespectful however because you don't respect the opinion of others who disagree.</p>
<p>"there is no lesso ever to be learned by having to figure out in your life what is important"</p>
<p>"just let mom fill out your paperwork, so you don't have to even think"</p>
<p>What you are saying is; because we don't agree with you, that we are naive, closed minded, and because your opinion matters MORE than mine, and you obviouslly know better than men; that I must not know how to properly raise a child! That's pretty arrogant and disrespectful.</p>
<p>Christcorp, you hit the nail on the head when you say "working together." When the kids are off playing games and Mom is sitting at the computer filling out college apps, something is definitely wrong with this picture.....</p>
<p>Christcorp: Exactly! Working together. I didn't help with apps in a vaccuum, or while my son was out cavorting with friends. Since his room was the living room, I'd sit and do computer related things with his applications while he worked on homework or essays at his desk. We talked about it back and forth. </p>
<p>I'm also amazed that some people had their kids do all the applications in a weekend. We spend the better part of two months working on apps 3-4 days a week, for a couple of hours a night. I think the total time spent on applications and financial aid related things was probably about 50 hours over 6 weeks. </p>
<p>My son's been at college since August, and he hasn't had some terrible dependent need to have me fill out forms or anything like that. I brought him up to have the skills he needs, but also to understand interdependence -- that families and friends work together to meet goals sometimes, and when they do, it makes the job easier and more enjoyable for everyone.</p>
<p>knowing where to find information is a critical skill as is being able to ask for help.
I actually think that being able to ask for help is a sign of maturity, rather than being afraid to ask and trying to do it all yourself without letting anyone even know you need help- or even worse, not being able to complete a task that is too big for you without help, but being afraid to ask for help anyway.</p>
<p>I see this with kids who need help in class, but are afraid to ask, and feel like they should be able to do it themselves and struggle through only partially understanding & I see it with work, very literally, when someone says they can help carry a weight, but midway through ends up dropping it, and injures themselves &/or someone else.</p>
<p>There is no shame to looking for help- isn't that why we are on these boards?</p>
<p>Everyday?
;)</p>
<p>We definitely saw it as teamwork, with my son doing the things that involved his intellectual property. My husband handled most of the driving and plane/rental car reservations, I did hotel reservations and made sure we had times straight for tours, info sessions and interviews etc. Son was a superb student for 4 years, enjoyed his ECs and wrote great apps. H and I loved that we were able to share this process with our son.</p>
<p>TrinSF</p>
<p>I actually wanted my son to finish all his apps before the Christmas/New Years break and was fairly pushy and naggy about it. Instead, he did them slowly but steadily, sending the last one in just before deadline. They were much better thought out and more individualized than they would have been if he'd rushed through them. What was I thinking?</p>
<p>Well; does this mean I have to help my wife with the dishes tonight??? I was really hoping I could tell her to "budget more time" and do it herself. LOL!!!!</p>
<p>On the other hand; I'm not sure if I like the possibility of her adopting a "Lorena Bobbitt" attitude. My wife loves me, but I know not to push my luck. Hee Hee....</p>