How many of you "help" fill out apps?

Parents Forum
121

<p>skrlvr: Here's the thing. Some people have argued that if a parent has helped fill out the factual information on college apps, then their student will be unable to function in college, and will be dependent on parental help indefinitely. But when we point out plenty of students who were independent to begin with, worked with parents on apps, and are now independent in college, the response is, "No, you're wrong." </p>

<p>Is it possible that helping with apps could be indicative of a larger problem of not letting your student be on their own? Sure. Is it true that EVERY parent who does this and EVERY student is making a mistake and that the result will always be bad? No. The only thing I've done for my son since he went to college was arrange for a birthday delivery of cupcakes, and caffeine during finals week. He's managing everything, including the stewardship of his financial aid coffers, which was certainly more than I was doing successfully at his age. :-)</p>

122

<p>Christcorp--I do know what I am talking about when I talk about athletics. My HS son plays at the highest level you can play at for soccer in this country--USSF Developmental Academy and before that a USYS D1 team and the ODP program. This is most definitely not a REC league. This team requires more commitment in terms of time (and money) than any HS varsity program. Heck, he just spent a few weekends ago in Fla playing the U17 National team. Most HS teams are a joke compared to the types of teams his plays. </p>

<p>As I mentioned before, the players are on this team because they hope to get recruited to play in college. And as I mentioned, his coach is a D1 college coach. The young assistant coach--a true scholar/athlete-- just graduated from a top 25 college with a 4.0 in chemistry and is doing some research in neuroscience before applying to med school.</p>

<p>The players on this team, including my son, know the value of practice, that you need to learn tactics, skill on the ball etc. at practice so you can perform well in the game. They know they rely on their teammates and practice is important if you want to have a successful season. They also respect each other to know that when you miss pratice, you have a very good reason. Even the coach knows that. The coach tells them that academics come first--he recruits for his college team and knows what college coaches look for--and that the better student you are, the more recruitable you are. Although the team plays and practices at a high level, the coach and players have their priorities in the right place. It is a very healthy environment.</p>

<p>So I don't buy that a serious scholar athlete would never miss a practice for a serious academic reason. To be honest, it doesn't sound too well balanced to me for a HS scholar/athlete to fear missing practice for a good academic reason. Something seems out of whack there.</p>

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<p>BUT_^^^^</p>

<p>If student has someone able to help out in a crunch, why in the world should he or she have to make the choice? To prove some point? What is the point?</p>

124

<p>Trin SF,</p>

<p>I guess we are not that much in disagreement. As I said in my first post "I don't think that by filling out the more informational parts of the form jeopardizes your child from having an independent and happy life."</p>

<p>But I still think we need to question ourselves more about our motivations for doing this type of work for them. </p>

<p>I do know that students are trying hard to be accepted into their first choice college, often extremely competitive ones. So they take tough courses, follow their passions and commit themselves to serious ECs, do community service, do chores at home.</p>

<p>Then comes college application time--what they have been preparing for--and then they find that they can't fit it in. Or that if they fit it in, they have to give up some important EC or simply important 'down' time because they are so busy. This seems to tell me that something is wrong. </p>

<p>Also, I disagree with Christcorp who claims that in order to have your child fill out those aspects of the application (rather than a parent), there has to be some 'good reason'--that your child has to gain something by filling out the form (like learning good work habits, responsibility etc.). That somehow, if your child is responsible, bright, dedicated, then things like filling out tedious forms are optional and that if your child isn't, well the application becomes a learning process. Some things just need to be done because, well, they need to know your name and address on the form.</p>

<p>I think that this should be flipped around-in order for a parent to do this, there needs to be a 'good reason'. That good reason often seems to be one of time--to take burdens off your child, etc.,to allow them some down time, or to allow them to participate in something more stimulating and perhaps helpful to the community, or simply because you want to show your love and support.</p>

<p>Fine. But again, I think it is strange that we are finding that our seniors can't complete the entire application to college because they are too busy doing the things to put down on the application to college.</p>

125

<p>I confess – I helped my son with everything on the applications – essays, fees, deadlines – everything! Let me explain –
My kid is not like your kids. He was a B/C student in a competitive high school. He worked extremely hard to get those grades but he was disorganized and had poor writing skills. And I would consider him a late bloomer. He was very shy, overweight young man who did not easily participate in extracurricular activities. So, when the time came to decide on a post-high school path, my son, my husband, and I thought long and hard about the choices. Military ? – All three of us were in agreement that he wouldn’t make it in basic training. Community college? – Our community college system has an extremely poor track record in producing kids who will transfer successfully to a four year state school or get an associate degree. Employment? – The only jobs around here for high school grads are at the mall or at Blockbuster. So, we decided that a four year school would give him the best chance at learning independence and getting a decent job. We started the application process for seven schools in September. It was agonizingly slow. My son was filled with anxiety and struggled with applications in addition to a heavy homework load. Sleep (not video games!) was his primary escape from the stress of his senior year. By December he was almost paralyzed with fear. His attempts at the essays were disastrous. So I took over because I was determined that he should get in to a least one school. I knew that he would be devastated if he was rejected by all the schools.
Well, to make a long story short, he got into six schools. He has just finished his first semester. One A, three Bs, one C!!! He gets along with his roommate. He is working out at the gym everyday and is losing weight. And he has joined two clubs!!!</p>

126

<p>The only help my wife and I provided was proofreading of the application and essays. Our son bounced essay ideas off both of us and his college counselor at school. The only thing he did that drove us crazy was his procrastination at beginning the essays. Most of the colleges were part of the common app so that cut down on the number of reviews for the factual information. Right now he has submitted all applications except one which he plans to have done this week.</p>

127

<p>I agree with Christcorp and TrinSF. I also feel that there are no black and white answers here. Nowhere in the application does it state that the expectation is for everything to be filled out by the student. That is just irrelevant. </p>

<p>Besides those who are seeking merit aid, or need to apply for various reasons to a multitude of schools, or for safety reasons, even applied to schools their child may have refused to apply to (I know of one such case), there are many complex dynamics at play here. If only people would not be so judgemental about something so trivial. </p>

<p>As stated in Post #125, a student may have organizational disorders or ADD, and many of them turn out to be very successful in college.</p>

<p>There are students who are working many long hours, to bring home some money for the family. Why would the family not do what they can to help the student in form-filling.</p>

<p>Interestingly enough, there is another thread where parents are complaining that their students did not bring appropriate "holiday" attire or formal wear home from college. After being told to. I wonder if those students were the amazing ones who did their entire applications themselves, down to licking the envelope.</p>

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<p>In answer to the original question, no I did not fill out information in my son's apps, although I did proofread them for accuracy. He showed me some, but not all, of his essays. I didn't make any changes or suggestion of changes to his essays, except to say that on one of them, I did not feel that he answered the question being asked. He re-worded and submitted it (and was accepted).</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Interestingly enough, there is another thread where parents are complaining that their students did not bring appropriate "holiday" attire or formal wear home from college. After being told to. I wonder if those students were the amazing ones who did their entire applications themselves, down to licking the envelope.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>lol, I had the same question.</p>

130

<p>Have not read the thread, but figured I would throw in my two cents. It would be a terrible mistake to help your kid fill our their college applications. College is about independence and responsibility. That responsibility should be all their own. Sure, it can't hurt to have a parent do a run-through of the application and essay to make sure everything looks good. You can never check too many times. But the application and essay itself should be done by no one but the student. The application is the first step of the whole entire process that ends with a college degree. It is not one that a parent should be assisting with.</p>

131

<p><em>grin</em> I bought my son a suit for prom and graduation (small school, informal prom). He took it to college with him. I certainly don't expect him to bring it home -- it's there for receptions with the college president or things like that. All he brought home was his everyday wear: jeans and tshirts. Of course, it's the west coast, so that covers most social situations. :-)</p>

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<p>Of course, it's the west coast, so that covers most social situations. :-)</p>

<p>You forgot the TNF</p>

133

<p>60 Minutes had a segment on Patriots QB Tom Brady last night:</p>

<p>
[quote]
The similarities were not evident in high school, and he attracted scant attention from college football recruiters. So his father put together a highlight reel and sent it off to 60 coaches. </p>

<p>One of those schools was Michigan, which offered him a scholarship. </p>

<p>“You think that helped?” asks Kroft. </p>

<p>“Oh, my God, that was the reason,” says Brady. "I know Michigan certainly wouldn't have seen it. I mean I was just a dime a dozen, I think. I was a good athlete on a local level."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Tom</a> Brady: The Winner, Patriots Quarterback Discusses His Career And Other Aspects Of His Life - CBS News</p>

<p>I wonder where the New England football fans would be today had Tom Brady's father not put together those reels? No intent here to say what is right or wrong in terms of helping out on the college apps; just throwing in another interesting tidbit. :)</p>

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<p>Devilsrule, here’s my take on the subject. If you and your child feel that a four year college is the best plan after high school, then you should do everything you can to help your child with the applications. Because what are the consequences if you don’t? No college. Then you have to assist your child with getting a job. Although many kids do have productive gap years before college, most kids who delay entering college either don’t go or fail to complete. And many kids in high school are late bloomers. They don’t have the skills to handle the demands of schoolwork and applications. They are intimidated by the whole process because they feel like they were failures at high school. (They got Bs and Cs!!!)
I am so very, very glad that I “got” my child into college. He is maturing there in a way I never believed possible. The children of the “hands off” parents that I know are living at home, working at the mall and are driving their parents crazy.</p>

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<p>Congratulations to you and your son, yorkyfan. I love success stories like yours. Wishing him the best and continued success.</p>

<p>I also have a friend whose son decided he was not ready to go away to college so he attended the local community college for two years. This fall he transferred to our state university and doing so well. He is on the dean's list and he may well become a physician just like his dad.</p>

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<p>Great stories about Tom Brady, and Yorkyfan's son. </p>

<p>I actually do not know of a single kid who is struggling in college, or unable to write term papers, or make smart timely decisions, just because their parents filled in the name/address/occupation boxes on their apps.</p>

<p>But I do know of a few kids, so amazingly independent, wow, they were going to rock the world, and yes they got into top colleges, some even starting with the letters Y and P, one dropped out to become a 'traveller', another is a cocaine dealer on campus, 1 transferred to our State school because the pressure was too much.</p>

<p>So, what are the predictors of success? Certainly not the ability to fill out paperwork. Why, the filing clerks at the State House and the DMV can do that, bless their hearts.</p>

137

<p>My point is that these kids are so busy buy their own CHOICES that they can't find time to spend doing their OWN college paperwork</p>

<p>If they aren't mature enough to step back and say, gee, maybe I need to make a mature decision here and let someting else go this week so I can take care of MY own stuff</p>

<p>What a concept= having to CHOOSE one thing over another, and whenit come s to something as important as college applications, that should override a club meeting</p>

<p>just a thought, but guess some parents don't thing their offspring should ever have to sacraifice a meeting, or miss a class to do something that is paramount in their own lives</p>

138

<p>its that very attitude in that they are "too important" or "too good" to fill out forms that just irks me to now end</p>

<p>and choloholic those very people that do the filing etc have YOUR life in their hands, I wouldn't put them down like that as if they are not successful, what a rude thing you just said</p>

<p>success isn't about a title...its about a good life and that arrogance is astounding and really pathetic</p>

<p>"bless their hearts"? talk about snobbery</p>

139

<p>I did not say anyone was too important or too good, in fact I said that some kids are not capable of doing that on their own. How are some people not able to process information??</p>

<p>Nor did I put anyone down. Everyone has a job to do, and I appreciate everyone's positions. Believe me, i have done manual labor to earn a buck.</p>

<p>Success is being able to do a job right. Even packing a suitcase.</p>

<p>I see people as arrogant and rude who cannot accept other points of view.</p>

140

<p>Reading this thread gives me heartburn. I certainly had one last night. lol.
I was wondering maybe I should have asked my DD to make her own envelope, not buying one because it shows she is not ready for college. Oh wait better yet, maybe she should go chop a tree and grind it to powder and make her own paper and then make her envelope, all to show she is even more prepared for college. Buying envelope is an easy out. [sarcasm off]</p>