California doesn’t. At least not at the level of the UC’s. One might be able to argue that Humbolt or Sonoma or Monterey Bay or more LAC-like- but they are still much larger than a typical LAC, and not in the same academic tiers in terms of admission standards.
The comment I was responding to began,“For CA residents”
I quoted it.
The reason I take the time to copy and highlight the stuff I am responding to is so that when, for example, I respond to a comment specifically about California residents, I can reasonably assume that people will read that and understand that my answer i focused on, you know, California residents.
“For CA resident students who can or are lucky enough to get into UCLA or Berkeley, hard to convince their parents that their kids should pay more or same to attend great OOS public schools such as UVA, UMich, UWisconsin, etc.”
Generally true, but probably still a question we will have to wrestle with. S18 has a UVA Echols offer and may get into Cal and/or UCLA in-state. But he wants to work in DC politics and do an MPP at some point. So are UVA’s DC connections and potential for an accelerated MPP as 2+2 (based on AP credits and Echols flexibility) worth the extra $30K pa for OOS tuition? Not an easy answer for us as the additional cost would certainly be noticeable.
^^^ This is a matter of dispute in our household, with ironic positions from parents given our own college experiences. We are California residents where S 2018 has a good chance of admission to both UCLA and Berkeley. Mom, Stanford grad, is most pragmatic and can’t easily justify paying OOS tuition to UVA, W&M, or UNC Chapel Hill, if he gets into these UC’s. I’m a Berkeley grad (and a huge Cal fan) and a career UC employee, who can easily justify these 3 OOS publics over Berkeley and UCLA … they are significantly smaller, and UVA and UNC are in great college towns with great school spirit and traditions.
We have resolved our dispute by my agreement to work another year or two, which I’m happy to do … nothing (second home, extravagant travel, new car, etc; the things we might have to forgo that mean nothing to me, but are meaningful to my wife …if I didn’t work a bit more) gives me more satisfaction that the ability to have my kid choose the school he likes best.
BTW: we too believe kids should have skin in the game, no matter our ability to pay. Our deal: kid is on the hook for 20% of tuition; 10% if graduate in 4 years. S is also looking at medium sized private universities (Vandy and Duke) as well as some LACs (Claremont-McKenna, Pomona, Whitman). 2016 D chose Whitman over UCs and it has been a spectacular fit.
@ThreeFelons I am with your wife here. I can understand why some kids may prefer UVA over Berkeley/UCLA for various reasons, but for us I would oppose as a CA resident, paying extra $30k to attend UVA over UCLA unless there was a specific program. I am from VA and live 1 hour away from UCLA. Visited both campuses. I don’t know but it’s like asking me to pay $30k more to send my kid to Yale instead of Princeton. Sure, UCs have bad points but so do other schools. If they cost the same, then no problem for me. I dare say there are probably equal number of kids from VA who could have gone to UVA who choose to attend UCLA as vice versa. Parchment head to head stats show 65% preferring Berkeley over UVA and 55% preferring UCLA over UVA but again, it’s about an individual fit. I was speaking for our kid. Now, paying extra to go to a school like Rice over top UCs, that I might be more amenable to.
If you like UVA atmosphere, consider Univ of South Carolina Honors College. Your kid probably will pay around $15k per year there, and they have great school spirit also and more friendly probably. Better football and basketball programs also.
I second @intparent I’m a Michigan kid, in-state and life’s been great here. Except I would never pay the tuition amounts that some of my out of state friends pay. I have learned to make the most out of college experience since I have to pay for my own tuition. (My parents had three kids going to college at the same time and paying for all of them wasn’t going to cut it) I could have easily gone to a smaller university or college with a full ride but Michigan had always been the dream. I stayed at a smaller university with one year’s tuition free and then transferred to Michigan since I always dreamed of attending.
Michigan is a great school. But I also have a master’s degree from another Big 10 school that is lower ranked, and the experiences weren’t that different. In fact, quality of teaching in particular was higher at the 2nd school, although quality of students seemed a bit better at Michigan.
I’m all for fit, but I just think when it comes to large state flagships, the differences aren’t worth paying extra for.
This is our last go-round on colleges for our kids. There are several things I know to be true having done this before:
(1) do your homework and visit as many campuses as you can before you apply. That doesn’t mean take all the tours, you can get a good idea by just driving or walking around on your own. You can fairly easily determine what type of kid you have: big, medium, or small school student. While some kids think they can fit anywhere, it’s generally not the case, and I don’t understand it when students apply to schools with 30K students AND schools with 3K students. They are entirely different animals. I also don’t understand applying to 10 schools.
(2) go to a school that speaks to you when you are on campus. I am a firm believer that if the school speaks to you, and you love it, you will have the right mindset when you start and you will successfully get in and out in 4 years. Check out the lists of schools with very proud alums. That says something.
(3) pick a school that will allow you to get in and out in 4 years. So many parents do not choose private schools because of the expense, but they wind up paying more than anticipated when their student can’t get the courses they need because classes are full or because they changed majors. Summer school and an extra year happen frequently and that’s why many of these schools quote 6 year graduation rates. Rule in our house is - in and out in 4 years. We’ve had one go state and one go private with merit. Differential between the 2 was about $5k/year. The third is to be determined.
(4) don’t get hung up on the US News rankings. Go for the program. A top 50 school with no merit and a program that doesn’t quite fit what you are looking for vs a top 100 that has a highly ranked program that checks all the boxes? I’d vote for the latter, especially if job placement numbers are high.
(5) figure out where you want to live, or think you might want to live after graduation. If you think you are headed back home, then a regional school is a fine choice. But if you want to go to Chicago and you live in Alabama, consider which school might help you get there (all things considered).
For some of us with kids who are now in their late 20s, the recession may well play a part in how we feel about how much to pay for the “right fit”. Right now (until very recently) the market is doing well and unemployment is low. But you never know what will happen. Many people that thought they were well situated to be full pay at college and still retire found themselves out of a job or with no bonuses or raises (or 401K matches) for many years. If your income is such that there is no pain in being full pay, more power to you, but if you are dependent on a job make sure you also plan for unforeseen circumstances.
I also don’t believe there is some magic “right fit”. As long as a school has the major of interest and kids that are interested in learning and in the range of stats as the student, it is likely to be fine. I know kids at giant schools that are heavily party, frat life and sports obsessed work well for kids that ignore all of that and study engineering and relax at gaming and ballroom dancing. That would be harder at a very small school where there may not be a range of activities and viewpoints for students to get involved in.
“Fit” is at best an intelligent guess, and at worst wishful thinking. It’s impossible to duplicate the experience you read about in college marketing and even alumni testimony. The existence of opportunities does not mean the student will secure them. Kids change majors all the time. Every campus is different. Every class/cohort is different. Every student is different. There are way too many moving parts to be certain that you will get what you think you are paying for. I sent my DD to my alma mater. With 30 years between our college matriculation, I fully accept there is no guarantee DD will have the same life-changing experience. BTW, the alma mater was significantly higher (more than double) in cost than her cheapest option. Yes, I’m a sucker. So far, it appears our gamble is paying off. She is thriving.
We have a set budget on what we can afford without plunging into debt and that is what we are willing to pay for fit. We can’t go over. If we can go under great buy we don’t require our kids to pick the cheapest school. Our eldest chose a private school across the country. Best fit and the second to best deal financially. Middle has not yet made his decision but the private school he has an EA acceptance at has given enough merit and financial aid for him to go there. We will see.
I find it difficult to believe a California resident would turn down admission to UCLA or Berkeley for another state flagship unless there is significant merit money involved. @websensation, does the Parchment data breakdown head-to-head preference by residency?
@PragmaticMom No. It must be for all states. While I understand various reasons for others, no way for me and my kid he would go to UVA over UCLA/Berkeley as a CA resident unless there was a specific program at UVA that he really liked, something along the line of Georgetown’s Foreign Service School. Vice versa if I was a VA resident.
I personally liked UCLA more than Berkeley. Berkeley was disappointing whereas I was pleasantly surprised by UCLA. Only way we would consider UVA over UCLA is if it was cheaper to attend by more than $10k per year.
Good question. Our oldest was admitted to her ‘dream school’, it was the best fit, but at $62k per year and three more kids to put through school we said no. She ended up at a small LAC with merit that was $30k.
Now second D is waiting for scholarship decisions, right now the range is $27k-$46k, with the $46k being the best fit. Of course she could get more scholarship money, so we really don’t have a good range right now. Also our situation has changed since oldest D, our sons are now in high school and based on their grades we are looking at CCs if any college for them. Since we have the money saved D18 may get to go to the fit school even if they don’t come up with more $$.
There is NO right answer to the OP’s question. Every family has to weigh their family finances…and go from there.
I will say…we did the financial “vetting” before the applications were sent. In my opinion, that is what needs to happen.
Some families will set a net cost limit, and make it clear that any college coming in above that net cost…gets jettisoned.
I would suggest having a price point, and that could have just a top net price cost. Any college acceptance that cmes in within that remains on the table. Any college that’s close…that’s a family discussion. Any college that is unaffordable…out.
The “fit” part…that should be determined before the applications are sent.
Maybe a better question would be whose kid had to give up the (perceived) right fit school for financial reasons and did great OR was totally miserable?
My guess is that most kids are happy and bloom where planted. I know my kid did great at the merit money school, even though it was not his first choice (however, I did think it was a good fit for him).
@sahmkc I agree. I’ve enjoyed reading each reply. My post wasn’t meant to help me make a decision, I was just interested in the thought process of others here. Thanks to all so far.
It’s worth an awful lot to me. My older son is not particularly adaptable, and has a lot of issues related to ASD. I would be happy to pay our full EFC of $70k plus to help him get a good, happy start in life.
Another interesting question is how much have you already paid for the right college fit? What have you sacrificed? We have lived in a much more modest home than we would have if I weren’t so committed to being able to afford the right fit. I have deliberately chosen jobs that will allow me to pay whatever it takes for college, for years and years, over perhaps more fulfilling opportunities. Sometimes I think I gave up too much. It’s hard to say, especially as he is now getting merit scholarships and honors college offers at some great state schools that might be a better fit for him than the more prestigious schools that would be full pay.
I like this question. Child 1 was admitted to dream school with a large scholarship. still above our calculated contribution (COA minus (529funds x .25) minus 5500 (child loan) < 25000 per year). dream school didn’t make it. but another opportunity arose. In hindsight I think the perceived fit of dream school would actually have evaporated after a couple of months there.
For child 2, we will offer the same calculation, but adjust the 25000 upward for inflation (significant years between kids). The 529 amount is roughly the same (started with same amt, interest has been different).
In the mix is a significant tuition benefit at the local school, so the answer, for us, is around 15000 more per year for the best fit. That’s as far as we can stretch because we will not be stopping retirement contributions…