<p>What is most important in the essay, is that the voice of the individual is heard. Sometimes, kids have so much help in editing and revising, that the end result doesn't sound like anything at all an 18 year old would write.</p>
<p>I am not opposed to editing at all, and plan to offer advice, when the time comes, but the overall tone and voice I will not touch.</p>
<p>I didn't even get to read them, much less help. Verbal sounding board was about it, and writing checks.</p>
<p>It's interesting to see the wide range of what folks consider to be an acceptable level of parental input, especially regarding the essays. I wonder - is editing, noting mistakes, or making suggestions more acceptable when the adult in question isn't a parent? The last junior year honors English assignment at our high school is a "personal statement," which the kids are encouraged to use as their primary college essay. It's very closely read by the teacher, who of course makes corrections - I seem to remember at least two drafts being required. I don't see anything wrong with this, but it is an advantage over kids in schools where teachers offer no help in writing college essays.</p>
<p>How about if the editing is by a total stranger, as is commonly done on CC by some very generous parent posters? These parents point out grammatical errors and confusing passages, make suggestions for strengthening the essay, etc. Is this all right as long as the editor isn't the student's own parent? If so, why would it be wrong for the student's own parent to do the same thing?</p>
<p>Of course it's wrong for anyone else to write an applicant's essays. However, the experts recommend that students have their essays reviewed - and it seems obvious that this suggestion is made in the hope of developing the best possible essay. I'm trying to see where the "acceptability" line is drawn for parents.</p>
<p>I did the FAFSA, CSS(?) and the app fee checks. That was it. We never reviewed papers or essays after middle sachool and didnt feel a need to start with the personal essay.</p>
<p>I don't understand parents' checking for grammar and spelling. I know they are not perfect, but don't all comp programs have grammar and spelling checkers? I know they won't pick up here/hear mistakes, but how often does that happen? The only slightly tricky ones that come to mind are principal/principle and to/too and any hs'er should know the differences.</p>
<p>BTW, in his college essay he wrote a funny piece about his less than perfect teeth, starting it with the beginning lyrics of Sun on the Moon, a James Taylor song.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I know they won't pick up here/hear mistakes, but how often does that happen?
[/quote]
One error overlooked by my oldest daughter and the spell/grammar check function was when she wrote about an acquaintance who was "recently decreased" instead of "deceased." I don't know how much the error counted, but she was waitlisted at that particular chool. We always thought she should have earned a few giggle points for that one.</p>
<p>As the type A mom of a junior, I have to admit I am probably doing too much already. I've scouted out the schools we're going to visit, I've emailed admissions depts. I've read volumes on the subject. And I'm on CC, not her.</p>
<p>I know I must hand it over to her, and I suppose after we've done our college visits, I'll see if I can find a way to do that. But it's hard. She's very disorganized!! And a procrastinator, too!!! </p>
<p>Advice appreciated.</p>
<p>My D gave me the list of schools she wanted to see spring break Jr. year. I gave it back and asked how. She came back with the itenerary, maps, schedules for info sessions, the works. I bought the tickets and drove the car. I made her navigate. I was a little surprised that she knew the names of most of the student guides at the various campuses. She had already chatted with most of them on-line.</p>
<p>Donna101, sounds like we have much in common. Neither of my children is organized or beleves in doing anything until the proverbial gun is at their heads, so it wasn't much of a surprise when they approached the college app process with the same attitude. In fact, my son seemed to truly believe that the deadline date was the very day you should file anything. That kind of thinking had me on a first name basis with the Fed Ex man, and going on the college trip from hell (New York, North Carolina, Illinois and Wisconsin) the last week in April two years ago. Fast forward to this year when my daughter managed to get her apps in on time only thanks to filing all of them online. I, on the other hand, am a devoted CC reader, read volumes about colleges, choosing colleges, applying to colleges, etc. At some point I realized my role was to be the producer in show biz terms. I put up the money, did the organizing, kept track of the deadlines, and did the nagging. I've heard other parents refer to this role as Project Manager. Some kids are great and do everything on their own. I didn't get one of those children! You have to work with what you've got. In the end both kids got into the schools they applied to and were/are wildly enthusiastic about going. I shudder to think what the situation would have been without my overseeing it, but they would probably tell you they don't understand what the big deal was since it all worked out fine. Figure out what you need to do to keep your daughter on track and just do it. Good luck on the adventure!</p>
<p>I think it's fine to get the college search ball rolling during junior year, because even motivated students may still be too young to understand the timetable in front of them, not to mention the fact that they're likely involved in a million things in their current daily lives. Certainly it's fine, probably a necessity, to go with the kids on college visits. Also, to help them with logistical things such as signing up for SATs.</p>
<p>But when it comes to actually filling out the applications, it's time for parents to stand aside except to answer factual questions such as when and from where a grandparent graduated, for instance, or, of course, do battle with FAFSA. It is ESPECIALLY not OK to do anything about the essays other than talk to your child about the topic if he or she seeks you out, and to look it over at the very end for typos or truly horrific lapses of judgment. This is especially true now that the SAT writing portion gives colleges an unmediated look at the applicant's prose style.</p>
<p>The eyes of a second reader can be very useful in finding mistakes like, "I know I will find my true home at Yale"... when the application is being sent off to Brown. </p>
<p>My daughter had a teacher who wrote excellent rec letters but insisted on customizing each one for the school applied to. My d. was upset to see the copy of the letter to Boston U. after it was mailed.... because it said that my d. would be an asset to "Boston College" instead. My daughter was waitlisted at BU. Who knows? Maybe if the teacher had a proofreader the result would be different. </p>
<p>These are the sort of mistakes that crop up again and again in college apps -- and the message they convey is one of carelessness.</p>
<p>
My experience with my kids is that outsiders - particularly teachers - were the ones most likely to take the life & voice out of the essay. My son wrote a risk essay on a topic that teachers were worried would be offensive -- I told him to keep the topic but cut the length (first draft - 1500 words). </p>
<p>My daughter's teachers emphasized correct grammar too much -- my daughter has a very distinctive writing "voice" with a breezy, informal style and a lot of humor... and of course the teachers were appalled. I found that more often than not, teachers and friends were simply too conservative in approach -- and far more likely than I was to make suggestions that robbed the essay of its charm. </p>
<p>So maybe it depends on the parent. I've also heard from kids (via this board) who had great ideas for essays, and parents that simply wanted them to write something far more prosaic and traditional.</p>
<p>The goal of the essay is to convey the kid's personality and true self. </p>
<p>For my D, while I did proofread and suggest some cuts, topic guidance was the best help I gave. Because of her passion for a particualr EC, the short essay pretty much wrote itself with zero input from me-- but the long essay was harder. She wrote three or four potential main essays before she finally hit on a topic that she could really run with to reveal her uniqueness. </p>
<p>For example, the first long one she tried was using the "influential person" prompt from UC app-- it was a nice essay, however one about someone else! I had to say, "Honey, what does that tell them about YOU?"</p>
<p>I think the best thing a parent can do is to help the kid sift through topics, brainstorm, and not rush to spit out the first idea just to be "done." You know what makes your kid unique and what their strengths are, sometimes more than they do! Help them select something to write about that brings those qualities out.</p>
<p>PS: her advisor did not like the topic-- thought it was too weird-- but I thought it was great.</p>
<p>Calmom </p>
<p>Im right with you. To extrapolate on my previous post (#4) on this thread </p>
<p>First, after my daughter mentioned that some of her friends were getting essay help from an English teacher at their public H.S., I strongly urged her to avoid that option though Im sure it may have worked quite well for some of her friends. </p>
<p>We provided weeks of editing & feedback as she crafted her essays. The end result was still her idea & entirely her work. Despite her perfect 800 on the new SAT I writing section (and writing courses she took as part of JHUs CTY program), she managed to further hone her writing abilities during the process.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether her essays played any role in admissions decisions, I believe she learned a great deal from the process itself.</p>
<p>I think it depends, to some degree, upon the capability of the student and on the interest/energy level of the student. </p>
<p>Also, it really depends upon what is meant by "assist".</p>
<p>Scenario#1: If you have a student with very high grades and test scores, and the student does not have much energy in the college entrance process, then I think it is worth while to step in actively and "assist". </p>
<p>Scenario#2:If you have a student who is very energetic and interested in college applications, then he/she is probably already doing more than the parents would be anyway. (In this scenario, the parents could still "assist" but would not need to be nearly as active).</p>
<p>In scenario #1, the parent could do "research" on colleges, on the college "application" process (deadlines, test dates, etc.). The parent could then inform the student of deadlines, and of the proceess. </p>
<p>In scenario #2, most likely, the student is already doing this on hir/her own. </p>
<p>The parent can download college applications. Again, in scenario #2, chances are the student is downloading the applications due to high interest and energy level. </p>
<p>The parent can be signing up the student for SAT and/or ACT exams. Again, scenario #2, student is probably doing this.</p>
<p>The gray area, the area of disagreement is when the applications are being filled out, who fillls them out, and with how much help, and what kind of help. </p>
<p>From the books that I read, from our HS Guidance Counselor's words, as well as from our son's AP English teacher, it is totally OK and recommended to have more than one person read and give feedback on the essay. </p>
<p>Where is gets dicey, and where people will disagree, is that constitutes feedback on an essay. We will all never come to complete agreement on this. One comment of "put more energy", or "be more specific" is ok to some parents, and not ok to others. Most would agree that having a parent/teacher write the paper is wrong. However, writing one sentence (to give an example of what you mean) may be ok for some, and not ok for others. </p>
<p>Bottomline, even with help, many students are rejected by an awful lot of colleges. I have to wonder, do those parents who insist on "no help" - do they feel good in the end, when their child is rejected by many colleges? Do they feel bitter, and angry at other families, as they wonder "did joey only get accepted because him mommy wrote the essay?" I maintain, help them out. As much as they need it. But don't write their essays for them. Read it. Have someone else read it. Encourage your child to have 2 or 3 teachers read it. Feedback is real world stuff (happens in most, if not all jobs), so it is valid in college applications.</p>
<p>Feedback like "well written but off target because X" (Ellemenope #8) or when a student has slipped into a "stilted" writing style unlike their more natural style are both fair game, imo. As is ordinary proofing. Including, in one of D's essays, we had a nuanced discussion about two word choices, a discussion no different than one I would have had with anyone bringing a manuscript to me for discussion.</p>
<p>As far as the broader application process, "project manager" was certainly appropriate.</p>