<p>I thought I'd post this link to a discussion from NPR:
<a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5333394&ft=1&f=2%5B/url%5D">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5333394&ft=1&f=2</a></p>
<p>I did not help on the applications (allowed her to use my e-mail to to send back up copies of her files which came in handy when her computer died at the end of december and we had to retrieve all of her stuff), but I did keep her organzed regarding check lists stating who needed what (supplements, peer reviews) and when it was needed. Purchased post cards, envelopes, stamps wrote all of the checks.</p>
<p>For both of my kids...I proofread their applications with them before they submitted them. As above, I supplied the stamps, envelopes, and credit card (for online payment), and checkbook (for mail in payment). That is it. If they asked for help, I helped would answer their questions, but that is it. They completed their applications by themselves.</p>
<p>I read Randy Cohens column in the NY Times Magazine every week and I agree with his comments to a point. Parents (and guidance counselors) certainly shouldnt be writing essays. As far as providing help, I think its a matter of degree. For instance, when my daughter couldnt decide what to write about for her essays, we suggested she use her own life experiences and began reminding her of interesting/funny stories she had recently told about work, school, etc Does that mean were guilty of providing the entire concept? I dont think so. Her story. Her idea. </p>
<p>I believe that his comments with regard to grammatical corrections & editing go too far. Proofreading, and <em>solicited</em> feedback with regard to grammar (or even flow & style) should not be off limits. Ultimately, the applicant should be able to review the essay, and know that its the result of his/her hard work not someone elses.</p>
<p>Cohen's comments about grammatical corrections did go too far, IMO, as evidenced by the comments of numerous admissions officers at numerous information sessions. They all beseeched, nay pleaded with the applicants to have someone proofread their essays for those types of errors. The comments were "We don't want to see those." </p>
<p>He also fails to point out that with the new SAT writing exam, admissions officers will be looking at an actual sample of the students "unedited" writing.</p>
<p>S is a very good writer and he really didn't want any help in this area. I encouraged him to allow us to proofread and did find a few grammatical errors, which he corrected. S then took the essays to his HS AP English teacher, who made a few more (minor) suggestions. According to all the schools he looked at, not only was that fine, it was desirable.</p>
<p>We have heard stories of students (good students) who went to tutors who worked with them in a big way on the essays. IMO, that is crossing the line. Randy Cohen also repeats the same line that many admissions reps give during their talks, namely that the schools are pretty good at figuring out what is student's work vs. who has had major help. IMO, that's far from always being true.</p>
<p>my daughter knew better than to ask me for help with grammar ;) I don't know a semi colon from a participle!
I did do the FAFSA forms for her however- and helped keep track of when stuff was due
( also paid for the application fees)
I didn't read her essays - but I may get a chance- I hear that part of the pregraduation events at Reed is giving the students back their application essays- particularly "why Reed".
should be entertaining</p>
<p>Parents like us who struggle with language can not help. Grammar oh no, that is why it is important to tell kids how not knowing language has hurt parents in professional fields.</p>
<p>I think that it is useful to have an adult look at essays because sometimes kids just don't have a clue as to what is the purpose of the essay. </p>
<p>One mother asked if I could look at the essay of her daughter--daughter wouldn't let her look at it. The daughter did let me look at the essay--it was an essay about how she admired her mother for overcoming adversity in her life and then went on to talk about her mother's adversities. I told the daughter that it was well written and would certainly get her MOTHER into college, but the essay really didn't say much about HER.</p>
<p>Little hints like that can be really useful. . .</p>
<p>I gave my D lots of information - I had a younger child that I always brought to the library for play groups hence I did a lot of reading about college admissions and essays. I told her what I found out, what I thought schools were looking for, what schools I thought were good for her, what I was willing to pay, and what I would do if I was her, and then I left it to her. She told me what schools she was applying to and how much I needed to write the checks out for and that was it - I never bugged her about deadlines and I never saw her applications. I figured I set her up with as much information as she needed and if she was going to make it at that college she need to do it herself. </p>
<p>I feel that a little focus from someone knowledgeable helps make the task much less overwhelming. Most parents think the the school guidance dept does this, but I don't think they do a good enought job - they don't know your child well enough. Only someone who knows your child well can help them to focus their application and essays well enough to reveal themselves.</p>
<p>I also felt the comments about grammar correction went too far; in fact, that's why I posted the link to the broadcast. Most students will - or should - go to someone for proofreading or feedback, whether it's a parent or their high school English teacher. And I can't imagine that a high school English teacher would let a major grammatical error pass.</p>
<p>
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Only someone who knows your child well can help them to focus their application and essays well enough to reveal themselves.
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</p>
<p>I don't entirely agree with this; some of the essays that I have looked at that have gone through the mom and dad cycle suffer badly from the editors being too close to the subject. When my son was going through this delightful process, his cousin proofread his most important application - I really didn't want my mitts anywhere near it.</p>
<p>I think it depends in the student. If one is aiming for a very prestigious school, I don't think parents should be proofreading essays. If a student cannot write a sentence with proper grammar or spelling, or an entire essay for that matter, the admissions committee needs to be able to see that. And eventually, all proofreading will include content, and not only grammar, if done by a parent. All students want the best for their children, and will help them in all the ways they can. If the essay is lacking in focus or doesnt address the prompt, the parent will undoubtedly tell their child, and the essay will be rewritten. Its not a true sample of a students own ability to address a prompt and cohesively present themselves to an adcom if it is guided by a parent. Adcoms deserve to know exactly what kind of student (and writer) they are admitting. Remember, an admissions essay is not a thesis or dissertation, it does not need heavy editing. It should flow naturally and come organically from the mind of a 17 year-old.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Remember, an admissions essay is not a thesis or dissertation, it does not need heavy editing.
[/quote]
Actually, admissions essays are more difficult: they have to be short.</p>
<p>That's definitely true, ohio_mom -- both my kids needed help from me in shaving down an overlong essay into the appropriate format. You really need an outsider to let you know what parts can be cut out. </p>
<p>Too much cutting really can undermine the voice & power of an essay, so it requires care. But at the same time, editing for length isn't doing the writing for the kid, it's just taking what the kid has produced and helping trim it down. </p>
<p>I also did my share of essay review and feedback for kids asking for help via this board. In fact, the reason I was doing it is that at the time, my own kid was keeping her work close to her chest, and refusing my input and help -- so to keep myself occupied and to avoid the temptation to pry or nag with my daughter, I took on the surrogate kids here. My daughter did eventually come to me for last-minute proofreading.... and by "last minute" I am being very literal - it generally took place the same day that the application was due, especially for those early apps.</p>
<p>I made a chart with my daughter to keep track of deadlines. I wrote the checks, paid online, bought the stamps and postcards. I read her essays for grammatical errors. I did not change her thoughts because I didn't want her essays to sound like an adult with more life experience wrote them. She asked me what was a better essay topic on some of the applications and I helped her brainstorm. I was not about to do any of the writing for her. I wanted her passions to come through on the application - not mine. It worked.</p>
<p>Our son wrote all of his essays with my proofong. One look over for grammar.</p>
<p>He had some difficulty coming up with some essay topics - I made one suggestion for one essay. He had been assaulted abount one month before and it had made a major impact on him. I suggested he write about this horrible experience and how he came through it - major racist assault - he was still so profoundly scared. Within two days he wrote the most incredible essay about diversity and experiencing multi - cultural life. He could have been killed - it so impacted him. But he was able to write about it - in a most profound way - made him real! I don't think he would have wrote it without my suggestion.</p>
<p>
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made him real!
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</p>
<p>And that's really what it comes to - can the reader * see * the applicant. I think that you did very well to suggest that essay topic to your son, donleyc, as it undoubtedly helped him to come through it emotionally, and to grow as a writer.</p>
<p>Roshke wrote:
"He also fails to point out that with the new SAT writing exam, admissions officers will be looking at an actual sample of the students "unedited" writing." (pardon my use of copy/paste...I'm html illiterate).</p>
<p>Whoa! Is this true? I had no idea that college board sent the actual essay. Until this moment, I thought CB only sent the essay score.</p>
<p>In my opinion a student should do every portion of the application with the exception of logistical questions or uncertainties in the wording of something listed requested by the school.
If a student can't sit down and formulate ideas and then proofread an essay for an application, what should be expected on a less important highschool English essay or college paper?
I completed my entire application to 11 schools without ever having someone read a single line of it, granted I applied post-HS with no college counseling. Why? Because it was my application, and the application was asking me to respond. When an application asks me to say something personal, it should not only be the topic that should be personal but the wording representative of my thoughts.</p>
<p>Good for you, Brackis -- but I have always believed in having a second pair of eyes proofread everything of importance. It doesn't matter whether its something I write, or my kids write -- its just that its very easy to miss typographical errors. Since I write regularly for publication, I am used to submitting my work to an editor.</p>
<p>Proofreading doesn't mean changing wording - it means noting mistakes and also places where the writing is unclear. For example, I find it hard to make sense of the phrasing in your first and last sentences in your post - I had to re-read a couple of times -- some punctuation (comma or semicolon) would probably have helped. I don't mean to be critical and I understand that this is an online forum where we all tend to be casual about our writing -- I'm just trying to illustrate the kind of feedback I might give a kid with a college essay. </p>
<p>My view might be somewhat influenced by the fact that, one way or another, I have always made my living through writing -- and for me, feedback and criticism is part of the process.</p>