How religious is Calvin College? [international]

I came across Calvin College, and I like everything about it except the fact that it is Christian. I really want to attend such an LAC (that is in an urban location, offers aid, and has a CS program), but can’t seem to find one that is non-religious.

I’m an international student and an atheist. I currently go to a Christian school, so I obviously don’t mind going to a Christian college. But how religious is Calvin and its student body? Are they hardcore Catholics? And are there some restrictions or are you forced to engage in religious activities? From my research, I could only find a couple of religious courses that are mandatory.

Bump

@MYOS1634 Please respond to this. I saw in the other thread that you mentioned Calvin is among the colleges that require to “abstain from […] even coffee”

I didn’t want to hijack.

Mundanewarrior–Great questions. I am a pretty fresh Calvin graduate and would be happy to help you out. Grand Rapids is a great urban location. It is a really fun town, with a lot of artsy places, bars, and restaurants. Also, it has great residential options for when you choose to live off-campus.

Yes, Calvin is a christian liberal arts college. It is not merely christian on the surface or in name only. The curriculum included 2-3 religious course while I was there. Even my roommate, who was an atheist, enjoyed taking them. The student body is diverse in christian denominations, but still mainly christian. The college is based in the reformed tradition so few students are hardcore catholics (you will learn more about the difference if you choose to attend).

The restrictions are not nearly as strict as fundamentalist colleges (e.g., Bob Jones, Liberty). The only “rule” I can think of is some limited dorm hours. To the above poster referring to coffee–haha–all students chug coffee. It is a very dutch college and people drink more coffee than water. They also have smoke pits on campus for cigarettes, cigars, or pipes for the philosophy majors (many Canadians attend Calvin and they smoke quite a bit). Parties are very common, even though the college has no greek life active.

Lastly, to you (but not me), the college has a pretty heavy international presence. All of the international friends I had were very happy with their choice to attend. I hope you reach out to the Calvin admissions office. They can give you more specific information.

Any more questions?

@CalvinAlum2013
Wow, you freshly created an account.

You make Calvin sound like a school I want to attend. Almost the doubts that I had are now cleared. I will definitely apply to Calvin.

A couple more questions, tho.

What is this “reformed tradition” you speak of? I get that it is based on John Calvin and such, but I want to know about the practical aspects. All the brochures I have of Calvin contain stuff like “Practice holiness”, “Expand your view of God” and “Learn how to be a citizen of the kingdom of God”, which give an impression that Calvin is all about God. But then it’s blended with awesome stuff like ECs and internships, and the liberal arts, all of which is so enticing.

Also, could you tell me what those religious courses were about? I will email the adcom today, but they will just direct me to a link of the mentioned courses. I want to get a different perspective. What is it that your atheist roommate found interesting?

That should be it.

P.S.: MYOS1634 didn’t say that Calvin requires you to abstain from coffee. He said that Calvin is among the “colleges [that] help you grow in your faith and require you to sign a creed or affidavit of faith and to abstain from certain behaviors or actions, upon penalty of dismissal (being in a gay relationship, drinking alcohol or even coffee - it depends on the university)”

To reassure you, Calvin isn’t one of the colleges that frown on mild mood -altering substances such as coffee or tobacco. :slight_smile:
However it is unabashedly evangelical Christian (conservative). Almost all students at Calvin are serious about their faith and see the primary purpose of education as doing God’s work. As an atheist, you must be ready to pledge your heart to Jesus Christ and recognize Him as the son of God. If you think this is a bunch of baloney I’m not sure Calvin is for you, if you’re willing to adopt this it may. Calvin is explicit in that it doesn’t see 'coexistence ’ as an option, with Christians on one side, and non believers on another, but rather that Christians must actively engage with nonbelievers and all in the community are responsible for one another 's behavior reflecting Christ-like behavior. When somebody is visiting your room during visiting hours, you’re expected to keep your door open to avoid sexual temptation (premarital sex or casual sex are against the code of conduct - although that clearly happens it’s seen as being sinful - IE., wrong).
Calvin isn’t just ‘nominally’ an evangelical Christian college.
As an atheist you may feel better at Macalester or, if a girl, Agnes Scott or Simmons. If you’re okay with Catholicism, University of Scranton, St Michael’s, John Carroll, or HolyCross. If you’re okay with mainstream Protestantism, perhaps St Olaf or Haverford.
Not all religious colleges have similar beliefs and codes of conduct. Typing ‘creed’, ‘mission’, ’ student code of conduct ’ will shed light upon the matter as some topics may be okay with you and not others.
In addition, you need to examine your heart about what you believe.

@MYOS1634
Looks like I’m getting contradicting information here. I am not turning Christian, that’s for sure. I better not take any chances with religious colleges then.

Macalester looks nice. Their CS department is pretty small tho.

I suppose that’s saying goodbye to LACs.

Macalester is a good school. Before you dismiss Calvin College, though, keep in mind that, to my knowledge, students and faculty are accepting of everyone. AND since you mentioned CS, take a look at Calvin’s CS Department. It’s ABET accredited with a strong track record of employers demanding their students. It has also initiated a data science program in conjunction with Calvin’s string Math and Statistics Department. No one will twist your arm.

@ACSProf
I know that the CS department at Calvin is strong. But look at it from my perspective. The purpose of education, according to Calvin, is to do God’s work. I don’t think I can spend four years pretending to believe in something.

In any case, I’m going to ask the admissions office to connect me to a current Calvin student to get a better idea of strict it really is.

Yes, newly created account. I created an account when someone mentioned this thread to me.

The reformed tradition stems from The Reformation. Simply put, it started a long time ago when some christians broke away from the catholic church over a difference in beliefs. You seem to be very conscious of how all of this applies practically to you. No offense, as an atheist, you seem to be thinking the main difference between christian colleges or christian denominations is what rules we have. I don’t know many christians who view their faith as “how best to follow rules” and Calvin isn’t like other colleges who have such strict rules (research horror stories on Cornerstone in Grand Rapids).

I think the most general difference in reformed thought is how intellectually strict it is compared to other christian groups. The theology, right or wrong, is well thought out. This is not some Baptist church thinking eight-year olds preaching is a good idea or that you can feel your way to truth. Your atheism will rightly be challenged directly or indirectly (as it should, not because someone at Calvin would want to be mean and disagree with you, but because the theology professors make a habit of challenging everyone on everything, which professors should do).

The religious courses are pretty difficult, maybe even more so for the CS, math, engineering students, etc. If I remember correctly, you have an orientation course, then have to take an old testament course, and a new testament course. The orientation course is easy. The next two can be difficult. Again, no offense, but as an atheist you probably think this is “kooky christian class” where you hold hands, finger paint crosses, and play bible trivia games.

Nope, it’s harder. You have to keep up with your readings and be prepared.

My atheist roommate enjoyed those classes. They are challenging but he liked to learn the history of the church. He liked Calvin’s programs and what he majored in led to some great career opportunities for him.

I had some friends do CS programs and they are doing very well (perhaps more a testament to the major and the labor market than a Calvin specific thing). Some went to grad programs and some started working. Calvin would probably take pride in their CS program, but also the engineering program is very good, and the nursing program. I know some engineering and CS students who went on to work at Google and Tesla. Very cool stuff.

Lastly, a word of warning, you should be a little skeptical of what any admissions department says or what a student they connect you with might say (for any college). I haven’t commented on your questions regarding phrases in the brochure, because it’s a brochure and is supposed to be filled with focus-group tested buzz words. Every admissions department will tell you their college is “right for you.”

What other questions do you have?

@CalvinAlum2013
Very detailed answer, thank you.

The Old Testament and the New Testament are interesting indeed. In fact, I have an exam tomorrow (being in a Christian school), so I was reading about it when I got your notification.

So, you’re saying it will be challenging. But then, college is supposed to be challenging. And I’m up for it. I’m more worried about the practical aspects, however. Will I not feel out of place? Will they (the student body) accept me?

I am an atheist, but not just because. I don’t think religion is a joke. Certainly not Christianity anyway. I have done a lot of research on it. But I still don’t completely understand the concept of a Christian college. Taking 2-3 religious courses is supposed to make serving God your purpose?

The career opportunities seem great as well. Just wondering how the campus placement is. Do Silicon Valley companies recruit from Calvin?

And yes, obviously, the adcom will only want me to apply, but why would an actual student mislead me?

PM’d you.

@mundanewarrior

I wanted to respond on here so I didn’t thread-jack

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2016-09-20/10-universities-that-offer-international-students-the-most-aid

http://www.greatvaluecolleges.net/affordable/international-students/

http://thecollegematchmaker.com/65-colleges-give-generous-aid-international-students/

I know it’s a lot of info to parse through but if you really wanna go to college here you should check it out. If you’re worried about aid, you could always apply to a few extra schools (think 10-12ish) so you can hedge your best and see where you get good aid.

@philbegas
I’ve been to those links (and dozens more) time and again. I started last year. And I’ve got financial safety schools too. But I don’t think you understood my question. I couldn’t find an LAC that has a decent CS program, has an urban setting, and offers aid to internationals. I’ve applied to Colby, but I don’t like the small town setting.

In any case, I’m applying to around 8 schools in total. Almost all of them offer generous aid, so I’m fine.

I understood your questions I just figured you had to start at the finance part because you were concerned about it. It’s not like I knew you’d been through those links :stuck_out_tongue:

Where did you end up applying?

Also if you’re still a bit iffy you could make a thread on the general search&selection forum!

@mundanewarrior : you may be better served by a college in a college town.

@philbegas

I applied to:

  1. U Cincinnati (co-op program + scholarship)
  2. U Alabama (full tuition / safety)
  3. Colby College (100% demonstrated need met)

On the list:

  1. Brown (high reach)
  2. Rice (high reach)
  3. UT Dallas (competitive full tuition scholarship)
  4. Stevens (merit aid)
  5. UT Arlington (full tuition / safety)
  6. Miami University (merit aid)

Not sure about Iowa State (the maximum scholarship is 8k which brings the tuition down to 12k).

@MYOS1634
I would really prefer an urban location than a college town, for multiple reasons, including job opportunities.

St Olaf and Carleton students (45mn south if they twin cities), Bowdoin students (45mn to Portland), Amherst or Connecticut College … There wouldn’t be a problem for internships or opt in their closest city.
St Olaf is religiously affiliated but not evangelical. The others are secular.

@MYOS1634
Based on their selectivity, Amherst, Bowdoin and Carleton look like HIGH reaches (considering that I’m asking for aid). I will look into St. Olaf and Connecticut College.