<p><em>I want to start off by saying that this is not meant to sound anti-Cornell</em></p>
<p>Looking at all of these threads on CC about people who got into/ are applying to Cornell is starting to get intimidating, it seems like everyone has a 2300 SAT score and has taken 20 APs and gotten all 5s and speak 4 languages and are just perfect. When I look at other things it says average SAT score is 2090 so I'm hoping this is true. Honestly though, I wouldn't want to go to Cornell if I would be in the bottom 25% and so I'm trying to figure out if it is just the people on CC who are extremely smart, or if everyone at Cornell is this smart.</p>
<p>everyone at Cornell in smart, for sure. (even though they sometimes don’t act like it.)
there’s no way to know how you would do in your particular classes, though. I had a 2300+ SAT, but I still got average grades in most of the main bio classes (that is, somewhere in the B-range.) it’s a guarantee that some of the students who were getting the As in these courses got lower SAT scores than me, and some surely took fewer APs as well. I think that when the SAT scores, AP scores, etc. are so high for everyone, they’re probably not excellent predictors of GPA. since people don’t walk around announcing their scores, it really feels like an even playing field, with everyone just being a freshman at Cornell and nothing more.</p>
<p>also, not everyone is just perfect.
there is a lot of multilinguality going around, but lots of times it’s just because of different opportunities, and it’s not a big deal.</p>
<p>I’ll put this in perspective of medical school since you seem to be premed:</p>
<p>Cornell students are smart when compared to the average person. Smart compared to the average med student? No. The majority of Cornell premeds won’t make it through med school. That’s why only a few hundred out of the 1000 Cornell students who start out premed make it. Only those few hundred actually have the academic ability to be a physician. So, if you’re in the bottom 25% at Cornell, you were never meant to be a physician in the first place. </p>
<p>First week of med school we covered 2/3 of a semester of Cornell biochem in 4 days. It was the easiest week of med school I’ve had.</p>
<p>That’s what I’m trying to say, I don’t know if I’m in the bottom 25% at Cornell, but I would say that at best I’m at around 40-50% for the Cornell thread. So is this an accurate sample of Cornell?</p>
<p>I don’t really know how you can know where you are without stepping foot in a classroom. I can reasonable say that 2300 SAT scorers will perform better than 1900 SAT scorers but between 2100-2400, I’d say that it’s unpredictable who ends up being the star student and who ends up being a B student. If your SAT score is in that range, you should be optimistic coming to Cornell and should strive to do your best. Also, keep in mind, a lot of premeds drop out because they realize they just don’t want to put in the effort. So, intelligence (as measured by SAT scores) is really only half the equation. The best med students are those who work the hardest, not necessarily the most smart.</p>
<p>good points norcalgiuy, but sat scores are becoming less and less important. NYU is already sat optional, many top schools have indicated it is not a “very” important consideration in admissions, and even HPY have talked about possibly going optional.
I think every study ever done shows much more significant correlation between college success and high school gpa, not board scores. This year at my school alone we had about 6 graduating seniors - completely unhooked in any way, getting into HPY with between 2000 - 2100, but they did have great gpas and big time ecs.
whether prelaw or premed, a lot of factors go into the mix.
there are some schools that seem to do better than others, e.g., Dartmouth which last year reported about 100% admitted to medical school - unscreened.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what studies you’re looking at. Many studies note that SAT scores have an incremental benefit. SAT scores with high school grades are better predictors of college performance than high school grades alone.</p>
<p>Where is your link to Dartmouth stating a 100% med school acceptance rate?</p>
<p>maybe, but so many schools putting less reliance on sat/act has to mean something.
At the Columbia tour I took last year they said that board scores are not even close in importance compared to high school gpa, but are considered. It seems like that at every top school.</p>
<p>If you do a research on the Dartmouth forum, you’ll see that its med school acceptance rates are in the 80%+ range, which is excellent but not 100% (which is impossible for a school with over 50 med school applicants). The thing I would worry about Dartmouth is that 3/4 of its applicants are alumni. That’s a pretty high percentage compared to Cornell (which is 50/50). You have to wonder why so many people have to take time off. But, again, you really should verify these things before just throwing out numbers.</p>
<p>Absolutely incorrect. Claremont McKenna had 100% admitted - unscreened. UMICH Flint Honors College - also 100% admitted - again unscreened. You should do your research.<br>
Yeah, Cornell will get some kids into Yale or Stanford Medical, but they are around 65% overall for applicants. Claremont absolutely got in 100% of all who applied last year - and there are many schools near 100, Mudd, etc.%. Do the research.
P.S. I would not rely on the Forums. Just call their premed advising office and ask for the data.</p>
<p>First of all, you really need to stop pretending all these tiny schools that pump out 5 applicants a year are impressive in achieving 100% acceptance rates. I said above that any school with over 50 applicants are not going to have a 100% acceptance rate. I am standing by that.</p>
<p>Secondly, I want hard data. Cornell has listed its data ranging back 10 years. I don’t believe any school that just says things off the top without any kind of hard data. Where are the numbers?</p>
<p>Thirdly, Dartmouth’s own website says their acceptance rate is twice the national average. That’s a good number. Not 100%. I will give you $100 if you give me concrete proof that every single one of Dartmouth’s 179 medical school applicants last year got into med school.</p>
<p>Until then, stop misleading people with things you “heard” as a high schooler.</p>
<p>No problem, Dartmouth had 96 or 97%, and it can be verified with their advising office. Above, I said about 100%. 96-97 is real close to 100% - and you now do say that at least according to dartmouth’s numbers (twice the average), it is close to 100% -
Mckenna - not a small school - also 100% - and they bragged about it in releases.
Mudd - the year before last - also 100%.
i know these are high numbers and exceptional, but they are true.
P.S. After you verify it, you can keep the 100 bucks. don’t need it. just wanted to state the facts. Cornell does very well, but saying there are no schools that can achieve 100% or close to it is incorrect. I trust the schools more than the forums. Just my opinion.
no big deal, but above you said dartmouth is like 80%, but twice the national average is real close to 100%.
I think it is important not to mislead people, so let’s rely on data from the school, not forums…</p>
<p>Yes, just like how Swarthmore used to brag about its 100% acceptance rate. Oh by the way, it was just senior acceptance rate. Oh and there was just 6 senior applicants. Oh and 43 alumni applicants with substantially lower acceptance rate (why the F Swarthmore had that kind of a senior/alumni ratio is beyond me).</p>
<p>So, spare me about doing the research. I’m on the admissions committee at my medical school. I know how deceptive these LAC’s are with their numbers. Ever wonder why it’s only tiny LAC’s that brag about 100% acceptance rates? UMich-Flint. Ok. Use your common sense dude. How come Harvard or Yale or Princeton aren’t bragging about 100% acceptance rates? I like how Dartmouth’s 100% rate is now 96%. Tomorrow it’ll be 91%. And by the next day, it’ll be somewhat accurate. lol</p>
<p>Teaching point: Any school that claims 100% acceptance rate on over 50 applicants is BS.</p>
<p>Look at the wording of UMich-Flint: “Our Pre-Med students who have chosen to pursue the honors program have had a 100% acceptance rate into medical school.”</p>
<p>You need a GPA of 3.7 just to apply to the junior/senior honors program. </p>
<p>I’m still betting that their 100% acceptance rate applies to no more than 15 applicants. If you could find the actual number of applicants, I’d be happy.</p>
<p>Again, if something is too good to be true, it probably is. No need to lose common sense just because you have some numbers.</p>
<p>No problem, Dartmouth had 96 or 97%, and it can be verified with their advising office. Above, I said about 100%. 96-97 is real close to 100%
Mckenna - not a small school - also 100% - and they bragged about it in releases.
Mudd - the year before last - also 100%.
i know these are high numbers and exceptional, but they are true.
P.S. After you verify it, you can keep the 100 bucks. don’t need it. just wanted to state the facts. Cornell does very well, but saying there are no schools that can achieve 100% or close to it is incorrect. I trust the schools more than the forums. Just my opinion.
no big deal, but above you said dartmouth is like 80%, but twice the national average is real close to 100%.
I think it is important not to mislead people, so let’s rely on data from the school, not forums…
P.S. McKenna does indicate a 100 unscreened acceptance - and they are not a small school. Are they also lying?</p>
<p>Good points norcal, but why do you personally think that dartmouth gets in such a higher percentage than, e.g., cornell? (also seems true for law schools)</p>
<p>Several reasons (listed in order of importance):</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Many colleges define “medical schools” broadly. They include in their data osteopathic medical schools, Caribbean medical schools, Indian medical schools, Polish medical schools, etc. Thus, if their student gets into ANY medical school, they count that has a success. Note that Cornell’s data specifically states allopathic medical school, the hardest type to get into. I’m sure a lot of those 3.4/30 applicants who are borderline candidates for allopathic medical schools actually got into osteopathic med schools and are in med school right now. So, Cornell’s reporting artificially depresses their percentage.</p></li>
<li><p>Their student quality is simply inferior. The stats of their freshmen aren’t as strong as the freshmen of Dartmouth. Throw in a bunch of transfers and the students simply aren’t as strong. If you look at the trend of acceptance percentages (with the exception of LAC’s who fudge their data), the stronger your student body, the more success they have at getting into med school.</p></li>
<li><p>For some reason Dartmouth is really good at convincing their weak candidates to take time off and improve their application. 3/4 of their applicants are alumni compared to Cornell’s 1/2. Cornell should really try to encourage marginal candidates to take time off. </p></li>
<li><p>Least important is probably the actual differences between the schools. Dartmouth is smaller so it may be easier to get a better LOR at Dartmouth. Honestly though, I don’t think there’s much difference between the two schools in terms of their premed programs.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>You really have to do some critical thinking when some premed advising office throws a % at you. You can’t accept the numbers at face value unless you consider the data that goes into those numbers. To Cornell’s credit, it is as open as any school in the country with its data.</p>
<p>I hope percentage of students getting into medical school is not the only measurement of how smart students are. Getting into a med school is not end all be all. Getting 4.0 in subjects one excels is great, but to do that across the board is more difficult. D1 got killed in an art history course where most art history majors breezed through, but most of them probably couldn’t pass Calc I. The course was one of D1’s favorite, she talked about that course at her interviews, and enlightened us when we traveled. It’s one of the reasons why I am a big believer of liberal arts education. </p>
<p>Whether someone is going to do well in college or work is not how smart he/she is, it is how how hard someone is willing to work. Most people have about same range of IQ, very few are off the chart. If you are admitted to Cornell, you should be able to do the work.</p>