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<p>From talking with recent alums from my LAC including some who graduated within the last year, it seems not much has changed from my time regarding the prevalence of alcohol usage/drinking on campus. Especially when it comes to parties. </p>
<p>Granted, it seems the current Obies don’t have the same degree of disdain towards those who imbibed alcohol due to associating its use with the “bourgeois establishment” compared to when I attended. </p>
<p>This conversation about drinking on campus reminds me about a pre-prom meeting that parents had about renting a house in the Hamptons. The discussion was whether or not a security guard or lifeguard should be hired to keep an eye on things. One parent (who did not want to kick in the extra money as a needless expense) proclaimed to all–“MY child never drinks!” To which everyone in the room who was in touch with what kids REALLY did, responded silently, “HAHA!! Your kid never drinks, but is high all the time instead!!”</p>
<p>Perhaps take a look at William and Mary. Very good school that does not have “party” reputation. I have no idea whether they are strong in your son’s areas of interest but it would be worth a look. Beautiful campus was well.</p>
<p>Hi NYMom of 2,</p>
<p>I’m also an NY mom of two. Your son sounds very very much like my older son (right down to the serial childhood obsessions, and the agonizing over various injustices in the world). My older son just finished his first year at Brandeis, where he was very happy. It doesn’t sounds like there is a lot of partying, and it sounds like the kids are constantly hanging around the dorm lounge discussing serious topics. I would encourage you to look into it.</p>
<p>An anecdote: a good friend has a son who sounds exactly like yours (he’s even vegan). When she started the college search process, she thought a small liberal arts college would be best for him. When he expressed interest in larger schools, she just couldn’t believe it. He wanted to apply ED to a large school and she dissuaded him from doing it, convinced that the partying and anonymity of a large school would be a bad choice. In his own, quiet, way, he persisted. He’s at a large school, and thriving — and she’s amazed at how wrong she was. Despite the partiers, he found his people there.</p>
<p>Sometimes a big school is better because in a large diverse group of students you can find people like yourself! My daughter has unusual interests (for a girl especially) and was able to make friends with lots of kids with similar interests at a college with 13,000+ students. In her fairly large High School (over 2,000 kids) she could not find any friends with similar interest.</p>
<p>I just wanted to second (or third) Earlham. If Haverford is a reach, Earlham is similar without the reachiness. It’s Quaker also, of course. </p>
<p>Thanks for all the posts - I am reading them all and will keep this thread as a resource. I’m swamped at work and not able to respond to everything right away.</p>
<p>I do want to say that I am not looking for a substance-free college, I know that no such thing exists. I am not under any illusion that my son will never drink. I am sure that he will at some point, I just hope he is responsible. And I hope he doesn’t try pot. I am pretty sure he would never try anything else. I don’t want him to be at a place where (worst case) he is influenced by the environment to develop a drinking problem. And I don’t want him at a place where (better situation but not ideal) he does not abuse anything himself but his experience is less than happy because of what is going on around him. </p>
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Oberlin has significant alcohol abuse and parties, just like nearly every other college that has been mentioned in this thread. For example, some Oberlin students describe their experiences with alcohol and drug usage on campus at <a href=“http://colleges.niche.com/oberlin-college/drug-safety/”>http://colleges.niche.com/oberlin-college/drug-safety/</a> . These comments along to other stats including hundreds of reported alcohol referral offenses led to the site ranking Oberlin as only a C+ in drug safety. Elsewhere on the same site, 13% of polled students reported being concerned about “excessive drinking” on campus. Oberlin students on many other sites report similar experiences. For example, in the “Oberlin Independent Website” at <a href=“http://www.fearlessandloathing.com/2011/09/a-beginners-guide-to-the-oberlin-substance-scene/”>http://www.fearlessandloathing.com/2011/09/a-beginners-guide-to-the-oberlin-substance-scene/</a> a student writes:</p>
<p>*"For some reason, lots of college kids like to smoke and drink. Beer, 40’s, wine, whiskey, moonshine, J’s, blunts, bowls, whatever–weed and alcohol facilitate social interactions, break ice, and wash away inhibitions during this coming of age phase we all pass through at college.</p>
<p>Where to find said elixirs of good times? As a first-year your best bet is to attend some parties; most serve cheap liquor and PBR, and have circles up in smoke out back. "*</p>
<p>Some women at Oberlin have reported sexual assault incidents related to drinking and parties, similar to the Hobart incident that inspired this thread, such as the letter at <a href=“http://campus-survivors.org/post/47178076978/an-open-letter-to-those-holding-acceptance-letters-to”>http://campus-survivors.org/post/47178076978/an-open-letter-to-those-holding-acceptance-letters-to</a> .</p>
<p>I’m singling out Oberlin, but nearly every college that has been recommended in this thread has similar reported issues. Quite a few of these colleges appear on the same Title IX list of colleges with alleged mishandled sexual assault events as Hobart. Many of these events happened following a party, like the Hobart incident. Some examples of Title IX alleged mishandled sexual assault colleges mentioned in your original post are below:</p>
<p>Brown – <a href=“Brown University Will Allow Rapist Who Choked His Victim Back On Campus | HuffPost College”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;
Chicago – <a href=“Saul Bellow, dead at 89 – Chicago Maroon”>Saul Bellow, dead at 89 – Chicago Maroon;
Swarthmore –<a href=“Swarthmore College Faces Federal Complaint Alleging Underreported Sexual Misconduct | HuffPost College”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;
<p>If you have a good sized college, some of the students will be into drinking and partying, and some will not. Rather than try to find a college where nearly everyone is like minded, I’d suggest trying to find a college where enough of the students are like minded to form organizations and campus activities that fit with your interests, and avoiding groups and activities that do not fit with your interests, such as not attending parties that are known for heavy drinking or dangerous situations.</p>
<p>I think you want a school were students feel comfortable being themselves and don’t feel like they have to fit int a an accepted mold, and that can be at a large or a small school. Personally, I was totally shallow when we toured campuses and if it looked to me like there was a uniform look to the students (yes, with dress) than I didn’t think it would be a good fit for my kids. I don’t mean just a preppy look, i also worried about a place where everyone tried so hard to be non-conforming. </p>
<p>“this is something I strongly disagree with based on my own undergrad experiences and those of HS classmates and colleagues who attended colleges like the one I attended.”</p>
<p>Having dinner with an Oberlin grad tonight (before Cobrat’s time.) I will ask him if there were parties/drinking. </p>
<p>I work at a large state flagship where almost every year a student or two will die in some sort of drinking related incident. Perhaps the stupidest was a student who passed out on the roof of his frat house and rolled off. Most involve traffic accidents. I was very happy that my S went to an urban college where students don’t have cars. </p>
<p>I went to a small school, and I agree with those posters who express skepticism about the small school for a kid like OP’s. They are not inherently more nurturing. They are just smaller. There are fewer kids of each type, so it stands to reason that if your interests or priorities are unusual, you will find fewer kindred spirits.</p>
<p>“From talking with recent alums from my LAC including some who graduated within the last year, it seems not much has changed from my time regarding the prevalence of alcohol usage/drinking on campus. Especially when it comes to parties.”</p>
<p>Is there <em>any</em> topic regarding Oberlin in which you don’t claim that you’ve personally talked to alums of all ages about it recently? </p>
<p>Again, don’t worry about the drinking. Let your son find the college that seems to fit him academically and socially. He’ll likely find ones that are large enough to have his lifestyle regardless of what others there may indulge in. Presumably he’s normal and will try some things to discover why he doesn’t continue to do them. The main advice I would give him for any college experiences is- keep it legal. He’ll determine how much to stretch that. I wouldn’t worry about him. My son is a distance runner. One Saturday pregame time he ran near the stadium and some frat partiers offered him a beverage, he just said no and kept on with his run. No big deal, no pressure for him to conform. A large enough school where many could go crazy but still tons of different lifestyles to choose from. This flagship had many serious academic experiences available that students took part in. Perhaps the offer of free pizza attracted the math club members to presentations, but they had them.</p>
<p>cobrat, there is a world of difference between living on a campus for four years, and talking to students about their life there now. Unless you are on that campus every night, you really have no idea what is going on. And if you think a 20-year-old is going to be totally honest with someone your age, there is a bridge in Brooklyn I’d love to sell you. </p>
<p>As parents we will always see and hear about things that go on in life that we hope our children won’t partake in. I think the best thing is to look for a campus that offers enough positive things that your child will want to get involved in and enough kids that seem to be involved. </p>
<p>uwsparent, I will definitely look into Brandeis! I hope it’s a possibility. I looked at Tufts the day I was in the guidance office, and it looked like it was out of reach. U Rochester looked like a safety and Oberlin, to my surprise, looked like a low match/safety. Of course, the huge printout doesn’t capture everything about a kid, but it does show GPA, course rigor, all scores on SAT and other tests. </p>
<p>Wow, data10. Oberlin was a school that I definitely thought would be on the list, if there are music opportunities for non-conservatory students. DS’ piano teacher went there, and I know a girl who is there now, who has had exactly the kind of academic experience that I think all of us are looking for. (She went in as a humanities/music student, became interested in a science course that she took and started working with the professor, ended up changing her major, doing research, will probably go to grad school.) Everyone who knows her, including her parents, is shocked.</p>
<p>kiddie, another good outcome at a large school. We will definitely consider some - probably not SUNYs but maybe Michigan, Wisconsin, UCSD.</p>
<p>Earlham and William and Mary sound like possibilities. I think that when we get closer, the GC will have some good ideas about which schools might be good fits and how likely admission would be. An advantage of a large HS is that they have lots of data on who gets in where. I looked at UChicago, thinking maybe it would be a high reach. It depends on SAT scores. From what I can tell, they take kids with exceptionally high SATs (not necessarily sky-high GPAs.)</p>
<p>wis75, UW might end up on our list, if DS decides to consider large schools. A large school without a conservatory might be a great place for music opportunities. I do see DS ending up in the sciences. He has a strong aptitude for science and math. At this point, he would probably say that he’s not sure about a major. My feeling, from watching him devour scientific articles when he is interested in the content (and he has been interested in other scientific topics besides animal intelligence), is that he will become intensely interested in some branch of science while he’s in college. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up in med school.</p>
<p>@fieldsports, small schools have several disadvantages. One is fewer kindred spirits as you note. The second is fewer courses in each area, which translates to fewer advanced courses but also less flexibility in getting in required courses. However, ShawSon attended an LAC and they were exceptionally nurturing. When he was a freshman, he couldn’t attend office hours for a freshman seminar and the professor set aside one hour a week outside of office hours to meet with him. That wouldn’t have happened at larger schools of the same caliber. I saw some of that with his peers. Deans and administrators were also very helpful to him. However, I don’t know if that translates to other small LACs.</p>