How to get your child to consider state school?

Parents Forum
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<p>Maybe I’m reading this thread wrong, but I think the OP is really complaining about her daughter’s attitude more than needing suggestions on schools.</p>

<p>My D is similar. She has a bit of an entitlement mentality and always thinks she needs “the best.” </p>

<p>We were able to send her to a very well regarded private school. We had the money saved, but business reversals ate the entire amount but FA made it possible. It didn’t help her attitude. She did well, not brilliantly, but well.</p>

<p>Fast forward to law school: She was not accepted into any of the very elite law schools she wanted to attend. Her LSAT score was quite nice as well as GPA, but everyone and his grandmother seems to riding out the recession in law school. She is going to attend a school that doesn’t really meet her high standards, but they accepted her. (Most of her schools were wait lists so I know she’s a fairly competitive candidate.)</p>

<p>Luckily, this is a public law school for public interest law (which she wants) and will leave her virtually debt free.</p>

<p>It’s hard to watch her take this knock, but sometimes life has to teach them what we can’t. It’s hard to argue an attitude away.</p>

<p>I think unless you INSIST your D goes to Rutgers she absolutely won’t. And if you INSIST you will get attitude, I’m sure.</p>

<p>My D is a wonderful person. This is just a personality glitch that I’m sure I’m somewhat responsible for, though I have tried to modify it as soon as I could. No success.</p>

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<p>NewHope-
Hmmmm, our DS is at school in Connecticut…
Maybe your DD and our DS should meet…or at least their 10 year old clunkers should!</p>

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<p>musicmom - Have your S be on the lookout for a clunker that hasn’t been polished in awhile, with a big dent in the right rear door!</p>

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<p>We were in much the same situation with our D1. She had excellent stats and we could afford private tuition. Our policy pretty much is that we’ll pay for undergrad, and grad is her responsibility. She wanted desperately to get away from her home state, even though our flagship has some of the best depts in the country. Unfortunately it’s 20 minutes away, and many of her HS classmates would be there, so even though it’s huge, it would have felt like an extension of HS for her, and way too familiar already. She even got a huge scholarship offer before she applied - it’s a longstanding grant to top students all over WI - but she turned it down.</p>

<p>We discussed this angle in many ways, and we let her make her choice. She ended up at her first choice ED in Boston (Tufts) and has been blissfully happy. We’ve paid a lot in tuition, and she knows there’s no give for grad school (she’s in science and will almost definitely go, maybe to vet school, actually). But she knows she’s come off easier than her dad, who paid for college and med school all on his own. </p>

<p>When we talked about a safety, both academically and financially - since maybe something awful could happen, who knows? - she said she’d do anything not to go to UW-Madison, even go to a little state school that was academically inferior, or take a gap year, if she didn’t get into Tufts (or Brown, or Brandeis). She said she was making this choice of her own free will and she would take the consequences.</p>

<p>The only time I put my foot down was when she visited a private university and said, “Well, I don’t really like it, but if I didn’t get into Tufts I could go here and try to transfer.” At that point I told her that if she was settling for a school, she could settle for a state school, and state school tuition. We’re happy to pay as long as it really seems worth it to her. We never put any pressure on her to get particular grades, either, but she has an innate drive to excel, which I’m sure your D has, too.</p>

<p>Our D2 is not a tippy-top student, is more interested in theater, and may end up at a state school once the audition chips fall, just by coincidence. We have told her that if her undergrad is significantly less than a pricey private, there may be more flexibility in helping her after she graduates. It only seems fair, if we’re talking about saving $100K compared to her sister.</p>

<p>I think it’s next to impossible to put price tags on education, or happiness. We’re stuck with a system that is inflated beyond imagination. But I do feel that a kid who truly hates where they are shouldn’t be there. I do think that since your D has a school she loves, then maybe it makes sense that she doesn’t want the familiar, and possibly lesser, state option. It’s not so much that she’s rejecting state U but following a real dream. And if her first goal is to be someplace new, then maybe an OOS tuition like UMass is a viable compromise - lower than Cornell’s after all (although I’d agree with others that there are probably better state Us than UMass … maybe even WI, eh?).</p>

<p>Good luck to you all!</p>

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<p>Colorado State University, Ft. Collins has an Equine Science major, and an outstanding vet school. I’ve repeatedly heard that the competition to get into vet school is much, much stronger than the med school admissions race, in part because there are so few vet schools, and many of them don’t really do a huge amount with large animals.</p>

<p>With your daughter’s stats, I think she’s certainly possible for admission to Cornell, but if that doesn’t work or isn’t interesting, an equine science program elsewhere might be a good option – and I think CSU is very well respected in vet circles. OOS cost of attendance is around $35K this year, but with her stats there ought to be some level of scholarship that she’d be eligible to receive.</p>

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<p>Nicely said, EmmyBet!</p>

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<p>A sense of entitlement takes years to acquire. I am not so sure that there is enough time for your daughter to be more reasonable about which schools to apply to in the fall. Maybe she will respond to looking at finances, but if she truly knows you are able to handle any financial situation, then she may not budge. </p>

<p>I know of a few kids who had a strong sense of entitlement who stopped talking with a parent because they didn’t get their way because they viewed their parent(s) as selfish. Hopefully, your daughter will be far more reasonable.</p>

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<p>How do you get your child to consider a state school?
My two cents:
Let her spend an overnight in the dorm there, with a host student who is from her intended major or from her high school/camp/etc - someone she has something in common with. </p>

<p>This lets your child “picture” herself at the school. (Rutgers is fun.)</p>

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<p>Or you could use Rutgers as the “mom choice” application, the one place she applies to humor you, and don’t worry about visiting Rutgers/improving her attitude toward Rutgers til after the apps are in.</p>

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<p>I forgot to tell one more story:</p>

<p>The fall my D1 was applying to schools, we went to see Romeo and Juliet at UW Madison. It was a visiting production by a wonderful professional Shakespeare theater in WI. She was very excited to see it. At the time, she was willing and ready to apply to UW if Tufts didn’t come through ED.</p>

<p>We sat in the balcony and were surrounded by UW students. Most of them, judging by their conversations, were there by force from their English profs. We heard endless conversations about partying, and who got caught by their RAs and how at 2 a.m. the RAs were chasing them up and down the elevators, etc., etc. and how blasted so and so was last weekend, and so on. Not a single word about Romeo and Juliet, of course.</p>

<p>They all left at intermission.</p>

<p>I turned to my D and said, “I will not force you to go here.” </p>

<p>She said, “Mom, one of those girls was a senior at my HS last year.”</p>

<p>Of course they party everywhere, but at a huge state U where there is not enough staff to pay attention to all of the undergrads, it’s a big issue. My D could have avoided all that, found great friends, had a tremendous experience, but it would have taken a lot of effort. Sure, kids have kept her up drunk and high at her school, too, but I do believe it’s better, and the rankings and stats support me.</p>

<p>I hate it that kids have to put up with that kind of thing and have fewer choices just because of finances, and my D has thanked us over and over for making it possible for her to go to her dream school. She would have taken out her own burden of debt to do it herself, though, I have no doubt. It mattered that much to her.</p>

<p>I grew up in a family where they could pay for college, too. My H didn’t, and borrowed and worked to pay for it all. I don’t think our resulting values are different; we just had different experiences. I thank my parents for being frank and consistent about finances - I don’t think it’s how much people give you, but whether they give you a clear deal that matters. My Ds know where the ceiling is, and they don’t play games with us. They know who’s buttering their bread now, and I do feel that they are prepared to butter it for themselves soon.</p>

<p>I’m sure the OP will be able to make a clear deal with this D, too. If the D is a tough cookie - which she seems, and I mean it in a good way - she’ll be able to take care of herself. And eventually she’ll thank her parents. Those of us whose college education was paid for in full are very fortunate.</p>

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<p>It’s not a state school, but Lake Erie College in Ohio is an inexpensive private school offering merit scholarships and specializing in Equine Science. Might be worth looking into, as it’s the best of both worlds- inexpensive, good program, and OOS/private/“special”.</p>

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<p>We began the process by asking dd what she wanted in a school. She wanted small class sizes, a community feel, and to be at an “intellectual” school. She didn’t want to be a stand-out, or treated special, like in high school. This caused her list to drift toward more expensive schools. I didn’t see it as her feeling “entitled.” (She would have loved a clunker, but we didn’t buy her a car, and she saved her job earnings for college.)</p>

<p>Obviously, if we only wanted her to consider our state publics, we wouldn’t have asked her “What kind of college do you want?” We would have just said “Which of our state publics are most appealing?”</p>

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<p>This is actually a very easy question. Explain to her the situation and give her a list of schools that in your view are worth paying more for than Rutgers. Then tell her that you will only pay the cost of Rutgers at any school not on the list. If she doesn’t like it, that is her problem. Explain further to her that it is your money and your choice, and that she should feel fortunate that you are willing and able to pay more for ANY school.</p>

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<p>I would amend the above post to “after she’s visited and made her first list of schools.” I don’t think it’s up to the parents to be the supreme arbiters of school value, before the kid has taken a stab at it. But, that said, I would have had a hard time paying top dollar for a mediocre school, just because she liked it for a shallow reason (“the dorms are pretty”) … except this doesn’t sound like a shallow girl. Those reasons for what she wants in a school are completely valid, very common, and extremely thoughtful for a kid who understands how to be work hard. My D, too, was tired of being a big fish and has been thrilled to no end that she can look up to and admire almost everyone she goes to school with, and be proud when she succeeds with the rest of them. </p>

<p>Another kid might not have the same criteria - some aren’t looking so much at the intellectual side, and some have different needs socially or in terms of atmosphere. But I think a kid who doesn’t feel like a big state school kid DOES NOT feel like a big state school kid. That is a very real feeling.</p>

<p>My nephew who goes to a big state school for financial and other reasons has had a lot of ups and downs, because he very much is NOT a big state school kid. It didn’t even work for him to be in a contained program at the big state school (mostly because it was the wrong program for him, after all, but also because it was so intense and stifling). His solution has been to be a commuter, but only after a lot of changes and hard choices. In WI we have a lot more state options, and many good ones, which is a change from where I grew up. You can be at a big one, small one, in the city, close or far from home, and where you know people or can start over almost completely. Also we have reciprocity with many other states, so the public options are even more numerous. Still, my Ds will probably both go to private schools because they want to go OOS and want specific programs. And the top student got $0 in aid, but the good student might get $$, because schools and programs calculate these things so differently. These are hard and very personal choices.</p>

<p>BUT D2, as with D1, knows that she must have a state school on her list, as a safety, as a fallback financially, and only when she has an appropriate EA or rolling acceptance in hand can she drop that application (if she still wants to - a couple of state schools do appeal to her). They need that one last absolute academic and financial safety option, until the family can make a final decision. Parents can insist on that.</p>

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<p>I think we need to be careful about how we characterize “state schools”. They are all very different. I could understand maybe wanting to go to a small liberal arts school vs a huge state school. But Jersey has two decent choices, Rutgers and TCNJ (much smaller). And the other choices mentioned? Hardly small privates. Cornell is not a small hand-holding type school. Nor is UMASS. And I have a feeling that Romeo and Juliet would not be sold out at either place. </p>

<p>I also understand the desire to get out of state…but I just don’t see it as being the sole reason for coughing up another 100K or more, especially if vet school is looming in the future. In fact, I see it as only slightly better than the “pretty dorm” argument. Anyway, I think it’s important to find a couple of cheap safeties she would be happy with…maybe it’s UMD or UDEL with merit. Or perhaps a private with deep pockets. To get money, go where your numbers stand out (makes for a good safety too). </p>

<p>And while we’re on clunkers, DS has a 16 year old one with 130k. Still plugging.</p>

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<p>Cornell? Cornell is not a state school though four of its “schools” are state-contract programs that have some state funding and lower tuition for in state residents. Even so, the costs are still significantly greater than the SUNY system. And I do think Romeo and Juliet would be sold out at both places unless it was being performed in the athletic stadium. Each has a strong English department.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the advice. She’s a pratical kid and the ‘no-way Rutgers’ attitude is shared by many of her classmates, rather than from a sense of entitlement. She does has well-defined criteria for schools and will take finances into account, however she won’t listen that Rutgers meets all her criteria. She has already dismissed Lehigh, BU & RIT, the latter 2 for reasons I share. Lehigh was our first visit last fall and she said to me an hour into the presentation she didn’t like it becasue it just “didn’t click”. (One of her criteria is that she won’t go south of the Mason-Dixon line, as she likes cold weather. Up to now, I am encouraging her to look within 300 miles of home, so I don’t need to put her on a plane to go to/from school). </p>

<p>Of the schools we have visited so far, her list is (in order): Cornell, RPI, WPI, UMass and possibly Tufts. </p>

<p>Rutgers Day is 4/24 with many demonstrations at the Ag school, so I think we need to just go there and see it first hand, rather than relying on hearsay. I just heard that a senior at our HS got 1 of the 20 full ride honors scholarships in the Environmental/Bio Science program. I need to find out who it is so she can talk to him/her. If she looks at the school and campus and doesn’t like it, I can accept that, but the fact she won’t look at it is making me crazy. </p>

<p>PS - she uses our 2nd car, which is 3yo basic corolla with 25K on it. We would have a 7yo one, but it was totalled 4 years ago.</p>

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<p>nj2011- I understand how her refusal to look at Rutgers can drive you mad. We have the same thing here in our hs; kids putting their foot down and saying that they won’t look at PSU cause it’s too huge and “farmy” -and never visit. I see some parents doling out huge $ for Syracuse or BU…nice private names. </p>

<p>For our son, he was less than thrilled with the idea of PSU. Last on his list. We visited very late in the process. He liked it (the campus is beautiful and the kids and faculty are friendly). Got into the honors college…got scholarships. Sealed the deal. He’s graduating with one of those big scholarships saved up. Did very well. Now he just has to find a job :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Good luck to you!</p>

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<p>If ZooMass (apologies to the Baystaters who may be reading, but this is for dramatic purposes) is on her list, then Rutgers should be, as both schools have the same basic mission - being a less-selective flagship in a state with great private education nearby that tends to dominate the college scene.</p>

<p>Trust me, the theater there would be full of the same kid conversations, as the only difference in student population is the accent of the speakers. Any school that has required participation in public performances or lectures will have the same type of side conversations.</p>

<p>That being said, I understand her wanting to get out of Dodge, as it appears that she is tired of the anti-intellect of her HS scene. What she hasn’t learned is that people are pretty much the same everywhere and that she has to learn how to shut out the noise that surrounds her. She has to understand that the difference between college profs and HS teachers is that college profs deliver their material and work with the interested, while HS teachers deliver the material and spend their time disciplining the undermotivated. She’ll get the intellectual stimulation she wants at Rutgers if she makes it a point to show up to office hours. Her experience will be what she makes of it.</p>

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<p>An interesting article on higher ed in NJ. I was surprised by the low number of students choosing Rutgers from the high school noted. I guess going to the same school as your high school buddies is not really an excuse to say no…since so many don’t go! Still I would think a free ride at Rutgers could be pretty darn attractive… </p>

<p>[Page-2</a> | New Jersey’s commitment to higher education questioned | State | NewJerseyNewsroom.com – Your State. Your News.](<a href=“http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/state/new-jerseys-commitment-to-higher-education-questioned/page-2]Page-2”>http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/state/new-jerseys-commitment-to-higher-education-questioned/page-2)</p>