<p>I am a junior who is already thinking about where I want to apply to( I know it's kind of early since I have not even take my sat's or acts, but I want to start early and once I get my scores I will eliminate the schools that are too high a reach). However, it is very difficult thinking about where I can see my self because in my mind the prestige of a college kind of overpowers the actual things about the college that will affect me the most(i.e the size of the classes, the atmosphere of the campus, diversity, how difficult the classes are,etc. so how can I ignore the prestige of a college when I start thinking about where I want to apply?</p>
<p>First, talk to your parents about how much they will contribute and to get some numbers to put into each college’s net price calculator.</p>
<p>Second, start your list with a safety that you will certainly get into, certainly can afford, and like.</p>
<p>Third, any additional schools for your application list are optional.</p>
<p>As far as prestige goes, it will only dominate your thinking if you let it dominate your thinking.</p>
<p>In a way, prestige is like the icing on a cake. It’s just what’s on the outside and generally says little about what’s inside. Goofy, but true. When you get an idea of the right tiers, look into the academics, majors/classes offered, what profs are up to, your opportunities there, etc. Plenty of moderate rep colleges can make amazing fits, depending on your interests, strengths and directions.</p>
<p>The prestige of the school means nothing to 99.9% of careers. The only career that “college name” seems to matter is Investment Banking on Wall Street. </p>
<p>For other career goals, physician, dentist, lawyer, teacher, engineer, accountant, scientist, etc, the name of the school doesn’t matter. </p>
<p>@mom2collegekids actually that is not true. College prestige does have small but noticeable effect on med school admissions. I have not researched the other career options but I would not discount the possibility that it also has an effect on law school admissions. </p>
<p>Prestige can be measured many ways. A public university on the whole may seem to have little “prestige,” but if you do research on the university you may discover that it is a member of the extremely prestigious AAU that only 60 universities are members of, mostly public, or that it is a Carnegie very high research university, also prestigious, or that the department you are interested in is one of the top 10 programs in the country, or has the best lab equipment or performing arts venues, or top honors college with many students receiving prestigious fellowships for graduate school, etc. Look at all the many ways to measure and view prestige, including possible outcomes of your education. For example, you can even look up prestigious people in whatever field you are interested in, or career path, and see what universities those people went to. You’d be amazed at how many CEO’s (and prominent people of all walks of life) went to an “ordinary” flagship university.</p>
<p>There are plenty of incredibly strong, bright academic students at completely avg universities who graduate from those schools with great careers. What are the issues that really matter in order for you to reach academic success? Those are the real questions you need to ask yourself.</p>
<p>Last yr when our ds was a sr, he interviewed depts. He made appts with dept dean and undergrad advisors. He had lists of questions that he wanted answered. Those contacts made a huge difference and really influenced his decision making. He had core questions that really mattered to him:
1-course offerings (he is an advanced student who had already completed multiple in-major requirements)
2-undergrad research opportunities
3-where did undergrads from that institution go to grad school
4-scholarship opportunities.</p>
<p>He was accepted at more “prestigious” schools which are ranked much higher than where he is currently attending, but the undergrad research opportunities at a couple were more limited, at one the dept was completely eliminated b/c of their attitude toward their undergrads, and several were eliminated due to cost.</p>
<p>His non-prestigious school was the best offer. It has the course offerings he wants, guaranteed undergrad research and research is HUGE for him, and offered him multiple merit scholarships covering full cost. He is thrilled with his choice and has zero regrets. He loves it there and says there are lots of kids just as strong academically as he is.</p>
<p>I certainly would like to hear more from @spuding102 regarding the slight advantage for med school or perhaps other admission like law school. I can understand if ‘all things are equal’ certainly the name of the school may put someone ‘in’ or win them an interview - but paying $$$$ for a prestige school may actually eliminate someone due to greater difficulty achieving a stronger GPA, etc.</p>
<p>I agree with @mom2aphysicsgeek about decision making both ways. </p>
<p>The interview process plays as a major factor once an interview opportunity is extended or scheduled.</p>
<p>A med school/law school/graduate school application committee may or may not know a student who has attended the school there. Probably there is a better chance, but has to be competitive. Makes more sense with in-state public than private with $$$$ and big student loans.</p>
<p>When @mom2collegekids has time to chime in… </p>
<p>A high stats kid that does all the good things during undergrad - has the things that the grad program is looking for…</p>
<p>The advantage for med schools comes about mainly in two ways. First, a high GPA from a top school often means more then the same GPA from a lesser known school. Second, more prestigious schools have more opportunities for their kids which in turn help churn out top applications. A great example is Duke engage. </p>
<p>Prestige and reputation are real factors to take into consideration, IMO, but not to the point that they over shadow more important considerations. There is always that balancing act when assessing what college is “worth” the price Sometimes it’s a special feature or program a school offers, a locale, the atmosphere, the size, and yes prestige and rep are often in the picture too. But the fact of the matter is that affordability is also an issue and to put parents/student at financial risk for prestige is not worth it. </p>
<p>Spuding, aren’t you a college freshman? Are you certain the college rep offers a trump card? There are so many roadblocks to getting to med school. No “one size fits all.”</p>
<p>The right fit is the right fit. </p>
<p>@mom2collegekids: In post #3, you specifically cite lawyers. I respectfully disagree with you. While a smart attorney with a JD from an entirely reputable law school can potentially find a job with good firm almost anywhere, several of the very best law firms (Williams and Connolly, Covington and Burling, Cravath Swaine, Skadden Arps, etc.) essentially recruit only at the first-tier (the top dozen or so) law schools. Admittedly, that adversely impacts a very small – but a very important – group of young lawyers. However, I believe your statement “the name of the school doesn’t matter” is factually erroneous for this cohort. This paradigm is also prevalent for MBAs; it is virtually impossible to be recruited by Bain, McKinsey, Goldman, and so forth if your MBA education wasn’t at a top fifteen program. </p>
<p>You additionally cite “investment Banking on Wall Street,” but I suggest this extends well beyond i-banking per se (consulting at the best firms and some leadership positions in high technology enterprises are also good examples).</p>
<p>I don’t disagree with your basic thesis, although I believe some examples you’ve provided are misleading. </p>
<p>Re: #3 and #11</p>
<p>It is commonly said that, for lawyer hiring, the name and ranking of one’s law school is highly important, but the name and ranking of one’s undergraduate school is of little importance for either law school admissions or lawyer hiring. True?</p>
<p>@lookingforward: I agree with the essence of @spuding102 ‘s post #9. Here’s a crucial fact regarding Duke Undergraduates’ medical school acceptance record (I don’t doubt this may also apply to other most selective LACs and National Research Universities): 85 percent – more than TWICE the national average – that apply to medical schools are accepted (<a href=“Homepage - Duke Undergraduate Admissions”>Apply - Duke Undergraduate Admissions). I find that 200+ percent statistic to be very compelling. </p>
<p>As Ucb points out, the grad program can matter. TopTier, you’re citing JDs and MBAs. Not undergrad shots at those programs.</p>
<p>You realize that 85% is not about freshman hopes for their futures-? It’s the result, at many, many colleges, of serious culling. That percent is in regards to a select group of kids who make it through to applying to med school with the grades, scores and committee endorsements. Often, a drastically reduced number.</p>
<p>The numbers of pre-meds weeded out are hard to find. But it’s clear the vast majority do not get to that final platform. Of course, their interests can shift. But weeding is brutal. Tales abound. Better to find a cooperative UG program, than to assume the rep of the school will automatically add some gloss. </p>
<p>Prestige does have some value in that it “signals” that you are exceptionally smart.</p>
<p>Exactly what that’s worth depends on the situation and what you expect to do. For some careers, they use that signal to filter out the applications before deciding who to interview. In most careers, you can get in the door without the prestige. In either case, once you are in the door for an interview, the prestige plays no role and you have to stand on your own merits. </p>
<p>100% of Hopkins premeds applying to medical school are accepted many years. But try to get their committee rep which you need to apply to med school if you are border line to accept. They, like many such schools gate keep from within, There are kids who were B students at stringent schools with rigorous majors that found out the hard way that a B at a tough school/tough course does not an A at easier ones make. There might be a small boost given, but very small. And these days, if borrowing for ug and Med school (or grad schools, other prof programs) may not make much sense economically. You are likely not to make up the difference from the alternate you who chose to go to state u and state med.</p>
<p>Add that the standard for that % of acceptances had been the number who got into one of their top 3 choices. That doesn’t mean those three choices were brilliant programs. These stats shouldn’t be taken at face value and passed around like ultimate truths. You want a college where you can be empowered, grow and move toward goals. that’s more than ostensible rep or flashy marketing assertions.</p>
<p>I believe ucbalumnus’ post #12 is more accurate than not.</p>
<p>This thread is NOT about the relative value of prestige. The OP seems well aware that prestige is not, or at least should not be, a key factor in college selection and is asking for advice on how to ignore the prestige factor. It’s one thing to “know” that prestige shouldn’t be a factor and something else entirely to actually believe it, so I think it’s a very interesting topic.
Yes, this is a common issue. It’s hard to know what college life is like until you’re living it, and the accessibility of rankings makes reliance on prestige an easier method of college selection than sorting through hundreds of schools looking for a good fit. Moreover, most high schoolers know only the most prestigious colleges and a few local colleges, and the unhealthy level of competition among top students at many high schools doesn’t help. When I started picking out colleges in high school, I was much more prestige-conscious than I would be today. </p>
<p>I recommend visiting a variety of colleges in your area – small, big, rural, urban, etc. Even if you’re not interested in those specific colleges, it will help you figure out what you want in a college. Doing an overnight visit and sitting in on classes will also give you a better idea of what it’s like to be a college student. </p>
<p>You’ll dismiss prestige more easily once you’ve been exposed to lots of colleges. I’ve attended 5 universities at this point and have spent a significant amount of time at several others. The more colleges I experience, the more I appreciate the wealth of great colleges in the US. The US has dozens of fantastic universities and LACs, each of which has many happy and successful students. Spend some time thinking about what sets each apart. When I think back on my college education, I don’t give a rusty nickel about its prestige, but I do have fond memories of the intriguing classes, the relationships I formed with professors, the activities I pursued, the beautiful campus, etc. </p>
<p>Also spend some time browsing through college books. I personally like the Fiske Guide to Colleges and the Insider’s Guide to the Colleges the best. Your local library probably has copies. </p>