How to prevent/stop Asian discrimination/disadvantage

Prep School Admissions
1

<p>So, as the title suggests, I'm Asian-American. An Over-Represented-Minority. The thing is, studies have shown that an Asian who gets an SAT score of 1600/1600 has the same chance at a school as a Black/ African-American who scores 1150/1600.
That discrimination is extremely shocking. Revolting, even.</p>

<p>In a society where a tiny bit of discrimination against blacks, hispanics, Native Americans, gays, religions, etc creates a huge media uproar, Why have we just "accepted" the fact that Asians are at an EXTREME disadvantage in the process? </p>

<p>Asian parents come from a so-called "disciplinary" culture that emphasizes hard work. Those who push their children to do so much are thwarted by the fact that they are at an almost equally large disadvantage. How could the parents and their children work so much and yet not even use a bit of effort to try to question the system?</p>

<p>Racism is not okay. Ever. The infamous Affirmative Action "required federal contractors to take 'affirmative action' to hire without regard to race, religion and national origin." However, it also needs to compensates for "past" discrimination. How can repeated discrimination account for past discrimination? More racism does not help counter racism in any way.</p>

<p>This obvious and glaring act of racism is disgusting, and Asians NEED to do something drastic. Protests, maybe? Letters to legislators, President, media; Petitions.
Seriously. Look up "Asian discrimination" and you will find many articles and studies citing terrible statistics. </p>

<p>The only two questions that need to be answered are:</p>

<p>1) Are Asians second-class people, thereby making their accomplishments less important?
2) Will YOU do something necessary and take action?</p>

<p>All you Asians out there who feel discriminated against, or even non-Asians who wish to help, please help.</p>

<p>Let's build ideas and share them together. Together we CAN change things for the better, for future generations of Asians and for a more just and ethical world.</p>

<p>Please post any ideas on how to chance this, or even just any knowledge, insight, or experiences about this topic.</p>

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<p>I don’t know about schools being racist, but Asians are definitely at a disadvantage. Because of the relatively (as in a few decades old) new attempt to provide an education for all ethnicities, the high number of Asian applicants, and the low number of other minority applicants, it makes sense that more Asian students are getting rejected. I don’t think this is fair, but contrary to being racist, I think it’s because of the trend to not be racist that Asians are having a harder time being accepted to schools.</p>

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<p>I know it isn’t fair, but there’s nothing you can do. Just think about it, if colleges accepted all of the asians that scored super high, the school wouldn’t be very diverse. As an Asian, you have to distinguish yourself from all those others that look perfect on paper. Don’t allow yourself to fall under the criteria of “robot asian”. Schools don’t like these types of people, no matter what your race is because they don’t offer much to the community besides boosting test averages. I can tell you, I’ve walked into interviews where I see two Asian parents that are hovering over their high achieving kid who seems to be almost lifeless. I mean this in the least racist way, but helicopter and aggressive parents seem to be a part of Asian culture (I know not for everyone). There actually is cultural evidence, I read it in an NY times article about tiger moms. I can imagine what goes on in the interview. The kid recites what his/her parents have written for him/her. And the kid is caught off guard with any casual ‘get to know you’ questions. Don’t be this kid. Make it known that you don’t let your parents do everything for you, and be engaging. Show the school that you’re a friendly and caring person.</p>

<p>That example I gave you about the kid in the interview, is a stereotype. I know most Asians aren’t like that, but this is the way many colleges perceive them.</p>

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<p>@Honeybadger97: You bring up a good point, and I understand what you’re trying to say. </p>

<p>Yet doesn’t that train of thought (shared by many a lawmaker) actually point towards the belief that racism toward Asians is ‘better’ than racism toward Hispanics or Blacks?
Is certain types of racism ‘better’ than others? Is it truly ‘okay’ to be racist toward Asians, as long as Blacks or Hispanics are getting preferential treatment?</p>

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<p>@helloel: You’re right. Wow I can’t believe how true that is. Maybe many Asians fail their interviews or something.</p>

<p>But are they really ‘robotic’? Think about it, can we call humans ‘robotic’? All my Asian friends are plenty feisty (just not around adults.) </p>

<p>And AO’s discriminate just by a person’s resume or their name. Apparently, some schools have even shadily admitted to “pooling Asian applicants into their own pile” and choosing from that group.</p>

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<p>I’m not calling Asians robotic. To be completely honest, I am 10x more motivated and stiff than my Asian friends who are nearly carefree. I’m just saying that many colleges do get these “robotic” applicants. Asian, White, Black whatever. But, colleges have started to stereotype many Asians as being this way because in the past they have gotten many “robotic” Asian applicants.</p>

<p>Top schools don’t offer on campus interviews, which would really help Asians so they could break free from the stereotype. When AOs see a high achieving Asian on paper they are very reluctant to accept them because their minds are clouded by the “robotic” stereotype and there is no face-to-face perspective to prove them wrong.</p>

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<p>As an Asian-American parent, I will say that I have zero interest in either of my daughters attending any school that lacks diversity…racial, socioeconomic, or otherwise.</p>

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<p>Ugh, here I was thinking that being born in Japan was an advantage. But it’s a little different for me because I’m only half and my parents aren’t pushy like that. Also, I’ve lived in the West for 11 years.</p>

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<p>Test scores are at most one of a number of important metrics when looking at applicants.</p>

<p>As a person who has had most of the breaks in life as I was growing up (in the 1960’s), I will say that scores are <em>not</em> the only axis on which people should be measured. Extremely important is whether an applicant has taken advantage of their opportunities.</p>

<p>Ergo, if, given two applicants, one of which is from a seriously disadvantaged background, and another who has had the kinds of opportunities I had when I was growing up, I certainly would think a good school would/should want the applicant who has made the most of whatever limited opportunities they have been able to get.</p>

<p>And it’s exactly this case that I’m hoping my son will be able to attend such a school. One of the most important things I learned at Andover in the early 1970’s was that there were kids just as bright or brighter than I was and who had worked very much harder than I’d ever had to to get them, versus me, who had opportunities without such effort. Learning this before a top college was invaluable. I learned to not judge people by their income, background or race. I learned to work hard. As a result, I’ve affected millions of people’s lives over my career. I hope my son gets the opportunity to learn this as I did. And yes, in some sense, he’ll be discriminated against. So be it.</p>

<p>Diversity is <em>really</em> important. And not just for those who are direct beneficiaries.</p>

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<p>Here are my sources:</p>

<p>1) <a href=“http://cornellsun.com/node/48879[/url]”>http://cornellsun.com/node/48879&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The Cornell Daily Sun cites a study that “Hispanic students receive a admissions boost equivalent to around 130 points on the SAT, while black students receive a boost of 310 points. Asian students, however, face a 140 point penalty. It was no surprise then, that after California outlawed the use of racial preferences in admissions, the representation of Asian Americans jumped significantly at University of California schools.”</p>

<p>This says that Blacks get a 310 point boost from whites, and Asians get a 140 point penalty. Asians are 460 points “below” blacks.</p>

<p>2) <a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/10/12/24103/[/url]”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/10/12/24103/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“Of students applying to private colleges in 1997, African-American applicants with SAT scores of 1150 had the same chances of being accepted as white applicants with 1460s and Asian applicants with perfect 1600s.”</p>

<p>White Americans are tremendously disadvantaged by this too.</p>

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<p>A couple of thoughts on the “advantage/disadvantage” issue.</p>

<p>First - let’s put the rest the whole “I got a better score than so and so, which makes me a better candidate.” Where on earth did you get the impression that:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>That scores count more than other parts of the application. (they don’t)</p></li>
<li><p>That test scores - conducted in an artificial environment - are an accurate predictor of intelligence or ability to do the work? (It’s not necessarily) If that is the case, then every student who gets “extra time on test” because of a disability should be told to stick with the original time limits.</p></li>
<li><p>Think that an applicant is “entitled” to a spot at any school regardless of stats?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I can’t tell you how many students I’ve interviewed (of all races, btw) who fail their interviews because they’re so focused on how smart they are, and how good their stats are, that they don’t articulate anything that will make them stand out in the pile. There are thousand upon thousands of students in the pile all wanting to get in, and all starting to blend in terms of accomplishments.</p>

<p>And there is some evidence that some high scoring students (not all) have someone else take their tests for them.</p>

<p>So you should stop comparing your ethnic group’s average stats to those of a different group and think that on that basis alone, your better scores make you a more desirable student.</p>

<p>It doesn’t.</p>

<p>But I will tell you, what you should wonder is why the other Asian students had an advantage over you? It isn’t that handful of African American students might take your spot, but the large number of “other Asians”, the white kids and the full pays who were deemed more desirable.</p>

<p>I’m being facetious, sort of, on that last part. But we’ve beat this horse to death in other threads. And recognize that most AA students with “slightly” lower scores come from districts that do no test prep, from households in which “Boarding School” is a foreign word until their student is recruited (and hence, no time for test prep) and most often come from districts in which they are the smartest kids in their schools but stuck with poor teaching and a lot of emphasis on passing state exams, not private school ones. In those schools no one even mentions ACT or SAT until Junior year and in some cases not even then. So should we assume that a straight A, Advanced state exam student is less qualified because they don’t score 99 on an SSAT? Schools know that isn’t true, why don’t you?</p>

<p>The bottom line is - schools seek to build a diverse class in terms of region, interests, academics, ethnicity, gender. It isn’t desirable to have a class built around a single ethnic group and hence, applications are about so much more than that. If the ethnicity issue were a factor then these schools would go back to being mostly white and upperclass.</p>

<p>I had the sad duty to tell a parent this year that students with perfect scores are routinely turned down at Boarding schools and colleges. Because admissions works differently here than overseas. We look at the “whole” person and not just grades and scores.</p>

<p>Try to spend less time ruminating on why someone might get the spot you covet and realize - if not them - it could have easily be someone else. Or - find a way to make yourself compelling now that you know the scores are becoming a tiny part of the process.</p>

<p>Forewarned is forearmed.</p>

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<p>“But I will tell you, what you should wonder is why the other Asian students had an advantage over you?”</p>

<p>+1 on this.</p>

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<p>@ExieMITAlum: 1st of all, where on Earth did I even mention anything about myself besides the fact that I am an Asian-American? I never once mentioned in this post my test scores, or my credentials. </p>

<p>I didn’t even mention I was a future college or bs student (unless you viewed my profile)</p>

<p>But what you just cited actually is stereotyping. You state that AA students that have " ‘slightly’ lower scores come from districts that do no test prep, from households in which “Boarding School” is a foreign word until their student is recruited (and hence, no time for test prep) and most often come from districts in which they are the smartest kids in their schools but stuck with poor teaching and a lot of emphasis on passing state exams, not private school ones. In those schools no one even mentions ACT or SAT until Junior year and in some cases not even then."</p>

<p>That’s an awful lot of: “Black people are disadvantaged as a whole, let’s group them all into one category: underprivileged.” Let me tell you, there are a TON of privileged and middle/upper class black folk. Not all of them are poor. In fact, if you haven’t realized before, many are not. </p>

<p>Then you go on to question “So should we assume that a straight A, Advanced state exam student is less qualified because they don’t score 99 on an SSAT? Schools know that isn’t true, why don’t you?”
Except that isn’t true. Not all AAs who don’t score a 99 on the SSAT are “straight A, Advanced state exam students.”
What I was citing in the study was one solid, concrete example of discrimination. There ARE far more examples–in both education and the real-world–of Asian American discrimination.
Far less Asians are let in based on merit than African Americans. You cannot stereotype all Blacks and “account” for their losses if you do not do that to all race groups. And that accounting, that dividing and preferential/deferential treatment, that treating of different races differently, IS racism itself.</p>

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<p>But, CollegeCookie, what is merit??? There’s a difference between</p>

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<p>Since this is an identical thread to one posted on the Admissions forum, further comments should be direct to the Race sticky thread on that forum.</p>