<p>Hi guys, my name is Tyson. I am a vietnamese american. I read somewhere on here that asians will have a disadvantage of getting into an Ivy league school, or other schools of that status, even if they have a high SAT score. I would like someone to please clarify this for me, for I am lost. Why are asians at a disadvantage? Or are they? I appreciate any comments. Thanks.</p>
<p>Vietnamese are considered URMs. And they're sure as hell not at a disadvantage if they major in English or social sciences.</p>
<p>asians are at a disadvantage sometimes at schools where there are a lot of asian applicants, so schools need to maintain certain race quotas or something i guess, so if it's between an asian and someone else (with similar stats) they won't take the asian. but that doesn't mean you can't get in, that's only if you're neck and neck w/ someone.</p>
<p>The asians who are perceived to be at a disadvantage are Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Indian Americans. Vietnamese Americans actually have an advantage.</p>
<p>On the SAT if you are certain race you get boosted in points (base on 1600 pt. scale)</p>
<p>African-American: +230
Hispanic: +185
Athlete (Recruited): +200
Legacies: +160
Caucasian: +0</p>
<p>And if you are ASIAN? -50. Yes, that is right Lady and Gent, we get subtracted points...
So if you're an African-American recruited Athlete, you just got yourself a 430 pt. A 1170 just turn into a 1600. You must score 480 points extra to be in the same playing field as that athlete. Who here can feel confident in increasing their best score by nearly 500 points (barring that it's a perfect score)? But of course you can't have a perfect score, because the "highest" you "can get" is a 1550. How is this a fair game? I lead that up to your judgment.</p>
<p>Source: A 2005 Princeton Study conducted by sociologists Thomas J. Espenshade and Chang Y. Chung</p>
<p>On the common app, I have a choice as to weather I state what race I am from or not. Technically (!) I am Asian. I hail from Iraq. Would it be better if I stated this or if I did not?</p>
<p>That’s only a piece of the study…… There are many more conclusions made then just what you have posted. </p>
<p>Also, no group is universally at a disadvantage in college admissions. This depends heavily on the school to which a person applies.</p>
<p>Kk19131 is right. That is only one piece of the study. Everyone should read the entire paper to have a better understanding, that's why I post the link up. However, the fact can't be deny that Asians are at an disadvantage when applying for college. This limitation isn't implemented by racism, but racial diversity. However, my point isn't to argue the justification for this, but showing emperical evidence that Asian are at a disadvantage when applying to College, albeit not to all; at some college, like College of Holy Cross, it's good to be Asian. The degree limitation vary from institution to institution, but it's most prominent among elite universities.</p>
<p>Where can you distinguish that you're Vietnamese instead of simply "Asian" on apps?</p>
<p>There's a line right next to "Asian" that you can put the country in.</p>
<p>
[quote]
That is only one piece of the study. Everyone should read the entire paper to have a better understanding, that's why I post the link up.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's apparent that you haven't read the orginal paper that their Princeton paper is based on a previous study by Espenshade, Chung, and Walling </p>
<p>'‘Admission Preferences for Minority Students, Athletes, and Legacies at Elite Universities.’’ Social Science Quarterly 85(5):1422–46, 2004.</p>
<p>Objective. This study examines how*** preferences for different types of applicants exercised by admission offices at elite universities influence the number and composition of admitted students. ***Methods. Logistic regression analysis is used to link information on the admission decision for 124,374 applications to applicants' SAT scores, race, athletic ability, and legacy status, among other variables. Results. </p>
<p>Elite universities give added weight in admission decisions to applicants who have SAT scores above 1500, are African American, or are recruited athletes. A smaller, but still important, preference is shown to Hispanic students and to children of alumni. The athlete admission "advantage" has been growing, while the underrepresented minority advantage has declined. Conclusions. Elite colleges and universities extend preferences to many types of students, yet affirmative action-the only preference given to underrepresented minority applicants-is the one surrounded by the most controversy.</p>
<p>Findings:</p>
<p>Model 1 is estimated using only those cases that report race and SAT score. The odds ratios are roughly the same in the two models, apart from the effect of being a non-U.S. citizen. A comparison of the other models in Table 6 with Model 1 shows that each set of interaction terms is significant at the 0.001 level.*** The penalty for scoring less than 1200 on the SAT is significantly greater for African-American and Hispanic students than the penalty for white students who score less than 1200 (Model 2). Similarly, the reward (i.e., increased likelihood of admission) that is produced by scoring more than 1300 is significantly smaller for African-American and especially for Hispanic students than the reward for white students who score more than 1300. ***</p>
<p>Models 5 and 6 add athlete and legacy status, respectively, to Model 4. **Being a recruited athlete significantly improves one's chances of being admitted to an elite university. The odds of acceptance for athletes are four times as large as those for nonathletes. Put differently, the athletic advantage is roughly comparable to having SAT scores in the 1400s instead of the 1200s. Legacy applicants also receive preferential treatment in admissions. Children or other close relatives of alumni have nearly three times the likelihood of being accepted as nonlegacies. **The SAT effect is somewhat "steeper" when athlete status is controlled, but it changes little when legacy status is added. These results are partly explained by the fact that athletes in the applicant pools have lower average SAT scores than nonathletes (1298 vs. 1335), whereas there is a smaller gap between legacies (1350) and nonlegacies (1332).</p>
<p>***The largest admission preferences are conferred on applicants who have SAT scores above 1400, who are African American or Hispanic, and who are athletes or legacies. </p>
<p>The athlete advantage is weaker than the preference for African Americans, but stronger than the preference for Hispanic or legacy applicants. ***The legacy preference, while substantial, is less than that shown to Hispanics. Using the estimated logistic regression coefficients, it is possible to convert the magnitude of these preferences to a common SAT metric. The bonus for African-American applicants is roughly equivalent to an extra 230 SAT points (on a 1600-point scale), to 185 points for Hispanics, 200 points for athletes, and 160 points for children of alumni. The Asian disadvantage is comparable to a loss of 50 SAT points.</p>
<p>The biggest flaw with the study overall is that it speaks to colleges would prefer to have and not what actually happens in admissions at these schools<a href="and%20there%20is%20a%20big%20difference%20between%20the%202">color=red</a>. [/color]</p>
<p>While I would prefer to be independently wealthy, the reality is that I am going to get up in the morning and go to work becasue I don't want to live on the street.</p>
<p>Most elite schools (the ivies, AWS) don't give athlethic scholarships. Although these schools have a "preference" toward admitting this type of student, there is nothing in the study that indicates that this actually happens. </p>
<p>An African American student who is a recruited athlete and has SAT scores over 1400 although ''preferred by elite schools " will in actuality have many options including and being more likely to to accept a full ride at a school that would give athletic/academic scholarships in a school that would definitely give them more exposure in their sport (ex: Duke/ Stanford) than to pay to attend an Ivy because they do not give either athletic or merit money.</p>
<p>Espenshade, Chung, and Walling conclude their article by stating:</p>
<p>The relative weights assigned to different student abilities are in constant motion, and our data indicate that admission officers at elite universities are placing a declining weight on belonging to an underrepresented minority student group, whereas the admission advantage accruing to athletes has been growing. By 1997, in fact, being a recruited athlete mattered more than any other type of admission preference we have examined. A subsequent article in this journal will consider the opportunity cost of admission preferences (Espenshade and Chung, forthcoming). Who are the winners and losers from current admission practices?</p>
<p>Examining preferences for recruited athletes and children of alumni in the context of admission bonuses for underrepresented minority applicants helps to situate affirmative action in a broader perspective. Many different student characteristics are valued by admission officers and receive extra weight in highly competitive admissions. It is all part of a process that views academically selective colleges and universities as picking and choosing from many different pools or queues in order to create a first-year class that best advances institutional values and objectives.</p>
<p>In the Chronicle of Higher Education 6-21-2006 article:</p>
<p>State Bans on Affirmative Action Have Been of Little Benefit to Asian-American Students, Report Says</p>
<p>Contrary to predictions in a widely cited 2005 study that said Asian-American students were the biggest losers in affirmative action, those students made only minor gains at law schools when the practice was banned in three states, according to a new study.</p>
<p>Interesting..
Generally the Asian-Americans whose parents immigrated are highly motivated to study hard and score high in tests. Parental pressure is undeniably the main driver. Thus elite schools have a lot of high scoring Asian Amrican applicants. These schools want to have a diversified group and this probably translates into the the disadvantage for Asian Americans mentioned in these discussions.
The second and thrid generation Asian Americans don't have the same immigrant mentality ("study hard", "earn and save"). They become typical American kids. So in the future the socres of Asian American kids should be similar to those of average Americans (=whites).</p>
<p>!!!! Are you an Asian-American, collegebound2007?</p>
<p>does the disadvantage seem smaller when I apply a business school? at least I dont want to be a doctor or study biology</p>
<p>Regardless of what school you're applying to or what major you want, they're almost definitely getting a greater % of apps from Asian Americans than the % of Asian Americans in the population. This sounds awful, but Asian kids with incredible test scores, perfect GPAs, all the most rigorous courses, and training on musical instruments since they were 5 are a dime a dozen. The pressure these kids get from their parents is incredible. I knew a Korean girl whose parents took away her bed because she got a B in her math class. In seventh grade.</p>
<p>
White. (But, why do you ask?)</p>
<p>"I knew a Korean girl whose parents took away her bed because she got a B in her math class. In seventh grade."</p>
<p>wow............</p>
<p>My Cambodian friend is not allowed to call any friends or receive any calls from friends other than one Malaysian friend. That is to make her focus on her studies and not waste time talking to friends. I think that is terrible. But she gets back at them by pretending to study while actually neading fiction. The father isn't educated enough to tell a textbook from a novel. She can't wait to escape to college. We are great friends though because we both love to read. I think she'll be alright...</p>
<p>my community is full of asians. the parents may not be as strict as expected, but all the kids enroll in lots and lots of tutor.</p>
<p>Thankyou guys, for following up on my question. All of the comments made were great, and I would love to here more...</p>