“My POV is concern for him, not criticism of him.”
To me, this makes all the difference in the world. I know I am much more open to receiving criticism from someone who I know has my back and is doing it purely out of concern because they truly care about me. Even with my own siblings, I would take comments from some better than from others because of the tenor of our relationships and history. Your niece has you in mind to be the guardian of her children in the event something happens to her and her husband. I’m sure she and her husband did not come to that decision lightly. They know you genuinely care about them, about their kids. As long as you are somewhat careful in your approach and phrasing, it seems like their is room for you to bring up some of your observations and concerns, IMO.
As an aside, I don’t think any American child will ever be disadvantaged by being taught traditional US or European table manners, even if they never really have the need of them in later life. It could be useful, maybe even if only as an historical curiousity.
Why would we jump on a concerned relative who is part of their lives and simply is concerned for them? Who here really believes standing back is the only way? Or that not advocating makes it all better?
Isn’t it a bit ironic that some who say to leave it be are nonetheless jumping in with both feet to judge OP? See it?
“Why would we jump on a concerned relative who is part of their lives and simply is concerned for them?”
" Who here really believes standing back is the only way? Or that not advocating makes it all better?"
This is a good CC question but not for this thread. Very interesting though overall. It’s good to ponder.
Offhand answer (and off topic here) is not everyone has the same “back” experience. That’s what makes forums great–the variety of experience. Not every one believes that a “concerned relative” is all that "concerned.
My thoughts on your situation in no particular order:
You clearly have a close relationship with your niece's children. And your niece trusts you enough to leave her children in your care for a couple of weeks. That says a lot. A parent doesn't make that sort of relationship just on a whim.
It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and that you've observed your nephew's behavior for long enough to see that he has some behavior problems.
Given #1 and #2 and since your niece trusts you and you have a good relationship with her...good enough for her to ask you to be her kids' legal guardian if she and her DH were to suddenly pass away, then I think that is a good enough reason to bring your concerns forward to her.
So I think that you should do it in a non-confrontational way. Something like, "Hey, it was really great spending time with your kids this summer, blah blah blah. I noticed a couple of things about Nephew's behavior that is a bit of a concern." Then see how she responds.
If she responds with something like, “Yes, I’ve noticed it, too,” then you take that as a cue to give some specific examples. Ask her what she thinks. See if she thinks it is a problem. and then see where the conversation takes you.
I did something similar this summer with my BIL. DNiece stayed with my MIL (who lives 10 min from us) for 2 weeks this summer. From what I observed repeatedly over those 2 weeks with my own 2 eyes, DNiece has some serious behavior problems and if I were her parent, I would be concerned. I have some strong suspicions as to what DNiece’s issues might be, but one has to tread carefully in situations like this.
In my case, BIL brought up the subject of DNiece’s behavior. I commented that she is a pretty intense kid and seems to have a really hard time listening to others, has a hard time processing strong emotions, and is quick to throw temper tantrums (which is really out of place for a kid her age). BIL blew it off and blamed it on my kids. BIL then brought up a serious incident that happened at DNiece’s school…DNiece stabbed another student with a pencil at the after school program and almost got suspended over it. BIL blew that off, too, and blamed it on the kid who DNiece stabbed. He said it wasn’t a big deal because the pencil didn’t break the skin.
That’s when I knew it was time to let it go and shut up and just listen to my BIL. He wasn’t looking for suggestions. He had an excuse for every school issue that had occurred. DNiece has had these problems for years now and they aren’t getting any better. We care about her a lot, but her parents are completely blind to what is going on and refuse to have her evaluated for the help that she needs.
In your case, though, based on the good relationship you have with your niece, I am betting that your care and concern for your niece’s kids will come across loud and clear and you will be able to communicate your concern in a way that your niece will be ready to listen to. Best wishes to you! Your niece’s kids are lucky to have an awesome person like you in their lives. That’s pretty special.
Just want to clarify that my comments about martial arts included Tai Chi My teacher is now 60 and it turned his life around, according to his mother, when he was 10. There are young guys in my Tai Chi classes who started really young too. Sometimes they start in a studio that has Kung Fu and Tai Chi. Dance is also good.
@Consolation I would let your niece take the lead but give her an opening to talk about the kids. Ask her how school is going for the kids. That would be an obvious topic for her to bring up any issues. If she doesn’t want to share, she just doesn’t want to share.
@roycroftmom There is no indication that the OP was asked to care for the children. The OP might have asked for the visit.
But your point is valid…IF the parents are asking for childcare favors from the OP…the OP has a right to discuss behavior she’s having a difficult time managing. She also has the right to put conditions on her services, and conditions on the visits. Maybe ten days is too long? Maybe she need help with the children when they visit. Maybe some specific behaviors need to be addressed.
However…if the OP is ASKING for the kids to come for a visit, or volunteering to do childcare…she really doesn’t have a right to complain or ask for concessions.
If the children’s behavior is a problem, she does have the option of simply saying…“I have difficulty managing their behavior, I’m sorry, I can’t take them, they wear me out.” This is an expression of her own limitations with the situation, and a fair one. THIS approach might actually make an impression because it’s not an arbitrary judgement against the kids…it’s a valid, truthful expression of her own limits.
This might open up the kind of conversation she wants about the specific behaviors that bewilder her.
I don’t think Consolation is asking for any concessions nor complaining as much as she is concerned by the growth and development of the boys and their future success. At least that’s the way I’ve read her comments.
There was an older thread where an aunt referred to a nephew as a monster or some such, didn’t want him invited. This is not that sort of situation.
I don’t know if these kids are suffering. But there’s a point where a trusted Aunt can gently open a conversation with a neice she’s close to. There are ways to do this. It’s not just the either/or of prying judgmental Aunt vs hands off not my business, ignore.
At the point she becomes a regular caregiver for the kids, their growth and development is her business.
Up until that point…it really isn’t.
There’s a fine line between having concern about their growth and development and criticizing the parent’s parenting choices.
If they ASK for her input…by all means…she should discuss all of her observations and concerns and conclusions.
The point of my post…which might seem harsh…was to put a big red warning flag in the road:
WARNING: If you give unsolicited advice about parenting other people’s children, they might be deeply hurt and it could ruin your relationship.
And harsh or not…it’s good advice. People are very protective of their kids, particularly against opinion based judgements…which the OP’s first post in this thread was ripe with.
And this is may lead to some seriously negative outcomes in adulthood and later and something OP as a respected relative and someone who was willing to take in the 2 nephews for a 10 day stay is likely concerned about…and IMO rightly so.
I say this not as a parent, but as someone who has a few college classmate friends who encountered severe difficulties because during their childhood through undergrad years, their parents were in deep denial about their problematic behavioral issues, refused any suggestions they get tested by teachers/concerned relatives who were aware of the issues, and blamed the victims/institutions/everyone else for the serious problems arising from such issues.
Those difficulties including getting academically/judicially suspended/expelled during undergrad, getting nearly/actually expelled from grad school, fired from multiple jobs, being banned from public establishments*, and burning bridges so badly few/no relatives/longtime friends are now willing to have any associations with them…much less provide any assistance
However, it’s a very fine line to walk and only OP knows her relationship with her nephews and their parents well enough to assess whether she’s treading respectfully or stepping well-beyond sensible boundaries.
One is an older undergrad classmate who has had a serious issue holding down a job for more than a few months without getting fired for such issues.
** I.e. Bars, restaurants, art/music venues, academic research libraries etc.
I don’t see asking how to broach as announcing she plans to go in with both barrels loaded. “How to talk,” not how to criticize. Nephews she otherwise enjoys.
@MaryGJ Your understanding of the situation bears NO resemblance to the reality. Your hostile and adversarial view of personal relationships could not be further from the truth. I gather that this is your world view: it is not mine, nor is it that of my niece.
Anyway, I had a good conversation with her last night, based on my concern about his “jerk” remark and whether this indicated a negative self image. (I referenced when my S came home partway through 1st grade and said he felt “like a freak.” ) He has apparently been doing well in school, and he has only been sent to the principal’s office once. (Unlike his brother!) She and her H were not wild about his teacher last year, not because he was harsh with the boy, but quite the reverse: they felt he was too easy on him in terms of expectations for organization, etc. The teacher declared that he was his “favorite.” He is, as I said, a sweet boy, and when not being maddening is lovable and a bit of a comedian. They are hoping that this year his teacher will actually be a bit firmer with him.
My H is unconvinced. He says that there must be “another X” in that case. Who knows. Perhaps the classroom format suits him, and the intellectual stimulation helps him stay focused.
If he manages to get it together in school, and cuts loose at home and with his family, that is better than the reverse.
Depending on the peers around the boys in their school/neighborhood environment, there may also be a positive kudos for the older brother being sent to the principals office so many times from his male peers.
It’s not helped by how in some male subcultures in our society, being “too” compliant with school authorities/older adults…especially in one’s adolescent/teen years is considered negatively, even by some fathers as I’ve observed from some in my old NYC neighborhood and from US pop culture.
And the younger brother may be trying to model that after picking up on it.
