How to Talk to Relative About Difficult Child

this is hard; you dont want to hurt your relationship with your niece or look like you are judging about your great-nephews. Yet, you care about them, and want the best for them.

NOT a professional at all. just from my own observances of volunteering in my kids’ schools (now working) and being involved in all sorts of kids groups/activities, i have seen the difference meds have made in many kids’ lives. I used to be against it all; but have changed my stance on it. Most recently, my DD babysat for a family/friend. The Mom left the family because her youngest was WILD and out of control. The dad has told us about about working with kid’s school & doctors; and even with the mom gone, things are so much better now. Anecdotal i suppose, but over and over i’ve seen many good changes.

not to say your G-nephews need anything; i have no idea! but I think as others have said by showing support, gently asking how things are going, and by just loving that family, your niece will value you and trust you. You’ll make your best decisions.

I’m answering OP’s question without regard to all the “leave it to experts” and “don’t diagnose” advice.

You’ve had 10 days with the kids in your home. You are much more objective than your niece.

And you have an unique experience different from their mother who has them 24/7 but probably never enough extended time period which circles totally on the kids without always multi-tasking in some way.

You are better than the “expert” who will never get 10 days of observation and loves the kids too.

From your post:
" My H observed that the younger one could concentrate when presented with a single thing, like an explanatory plaque, but lost it when there were several things "

I think that is an excellent observation that may never occur in a household that always has a lot going on. I would certainly mention it to mom/dad. DON’T keep it to yourself–you do your nephew no favors.

Totally different level perhaps but a short story… when my kid was little my sister who babysat for me for a week gave me feedback on some behavior from my child.
It was a simple observation…“I noticed whenever kid watches a certain TV show, kid acts a certain way doing “X”…maybe cut that program out.”
At first I was “No way!, you’re wrong (it’s a kid’s show for goodness sake)!” but just her mentioning it drew my focus to it so I could test her theory–and darn if she wasn’t right. I’d totally missed the connection.
And while upset that I hadn’t seen it myself I was happy she had told me (and made life better!)
She didn’t mention it again after telling me and my “No Way!” reaction–she’d done her part–but I told her later she was right and keep up the good work!

There are no reasons to “burn bridges” or “act like the expert” or “diagnose”. You made a good observation and I’d follow through on telling niece what you observed. It’ll be up to her to follow through. (And expect instant denial and some time to pass while your theory is tested…)

Did the OP say they were babysitting the kids? I missed that. I read that both she and their family at large has witnessed the behaviors and they stayed with them. I didn’t take that to mean they stayed alone with them.

If the kids were being babysat, it does sound like they were aware of the behaviors before they agreed. I wouldn’t ask anyone to watch our d’s long-term like that without extreme circumstances. Even then, my in-laws would even say no.

You’re probably right. I, for one, probably made an incorrect assumption they were watching the kids rather than just hosting the family when reading the OP. @Consolation hopefully will come back soon and set the record straight.

“They recently spent a week and a half with us. My H observed that the younger one could concentrate when presented with a single thing,”

Now that it has been pointed out–I don’t know if “they” is the whole family or just the kids for 10 days.

But it doesn’t really matter. It’s an observation based on interactions with kids over 10 days made by outside source other than being “mom” 24/7 from a loving relative which might help in the long run.
The fine line is just in “how to say it” and “know when to shut up.”

I’m a little confused. Was there a problem issue with these boys…or were they just active, and inattentive to some degree?

I have to say…I concentrate much better when there are LESS things going on at the same time…especially if I really am interested in all of the other things.

If these are primary school kids, I might think differently than if they are HS kids.

Even so…I would tread lightly. @consolation sounds like shenhas a nice relationship with the boys…and their family…and she doesn’t want to jeopardize that.

Well, that is certainly a range of reactions. I will refrain from characterizing them, except to say that some of you have made a lot of assumptions, apparently based on your personal experience.

For those of you who accuse me of either making a diagnosis or wanting to do so, I thought I made it clear that I had no pretension to expertise in that area. All I have is close observation of the child in question, as well as a decent amount of experience with little boys through my S and his friends.

Let me clarify a few things. Firstly, I am close to my niece, and we have discussed parenting issues before, especially around gifted boys, since I also had one. I have always been supportive. She knows perfectly that I love the boys, and I am particularly close to the older one, who just turned 12. Last year, I drove with him back from my sister’s house in Indiana, a 2-day trip, during which we listened to the second half of Team of Rivals. He astonished his parents with his fully formed opinions on members of Lincoln’s cabinet when he got home, LOL. On that occasion he stayed with me for about 5 days. They call it Consolation Camp. His parents also noted–with pleasure–that he returned with better table manners. :slight_smile: They actually kind of count on me to enforce a little civilization. (The 8 yr old also arrive at my house with a math packet due this coming week that he had done nothing on all summer. They counted on me to make him do it. I got him to do about a third of it, but then I said to myself, why do I have to be the bad guy?)

In fact, on this trip my niece said that she and her H were finally making a will, and they asked me if I would be willing to be the boys’ guardian if something happened to them. Me, not either of their grandmothers or any of my other nieces, her sisters.

This summer I drove down to CT for his birthday party, and brought both them–and their pit bull–up to my house to stay for about a week and a half. Their parents were not here. (Also not the first time one of their dogs has come to stay.) NONE of my other family members are willing to do this, largely because of the behavior of the younger one, who seems to be 8 going on 4. When I arrive at their house, the first thing the boys usually want to do is sit down and play Ticket to Ride with me. We have a very warm relationship.

I, and everyone else, have had ample opportunity to observe him. He is a sweet boy. He is also incredibly impulsive, does not listen, cannot be still for 5 seconds (literally), and in general seems immature for his age. Someone mentioned the idea that I should praise him for sitting still at the dinner table for a minute or two. Perhaps you will not believe me, but that is something I have never seen. If he is eating something like a sandwich, he constantly gets up and circles the room with it in his hand. He has to be asked to sit down probably 5-10 times in the course of the meal. If he is eating a dish that requires a utensil, he sits with his feet under him, shifts position frequently, gets up and walks before sitting down again, and so on. I say “a utensil,” because he does not know how to properly hold and use a knife and fork. (He is also semi-ambidextrous, but I think ultimately may be left-handed. Not that that has anything to do with anything, except that it might partially explain his difficulty with implements.) The last time I saw him before this, I narrowly prevented him from running headlong into a major city street by bellowing at him so loud I felt like I ruptured a vocal cord. (The idea of getting him to walk holding one’s hand is laughable.) The one time he can concentrate is–naturally–when watching something on a screen, whether a game or a video.

I know that both of them have made many trips to the principal’s office, they are rather proud of it. The older one has matured a lot, though, and I am not as concerned about him. He would benefit greatly from a peer group of intellectually inclined kids, and I’m hoping he finds it this year in 7th grade. He and I have had talks about trying to break the cycle of bickering with his brother, not making negative assumptions about other people’s intellect, enjoying interactions when adults compliment him on his manners, working on being his best self, etc. The younger one says that he enjoys being a jerk at school. I am worried about him. I am worried that this jerk label has been voiced by his peers, and that he is internalizing it. I don’t know whether he controls himself better in school, but I tend to doubt it. I think that his behavior is pretty extreme, and I wish he could be helped.

I think that I am perhaps the ONLY person from whom my niece would accept this kind of concern. I would like to talk to her about it, supportively. That’s why I asked for advice.

“The younger one says that he enjoys being a jerk at school.”
Do you think this falls into a “negative attention is better than no attention at all” way of thinking for him?

I think the greater detail you’ve provided on ages, observations, your relationship with your niece, and the history of your engagement and time with the boys will allow people to give advice that is more specified to your situation. Your original post was a tad short on details so no surprise that advice was all over the map.

You sound freaking amazing @Consolation! Everyone should have a relative like you.

For me, agreeing to be Guardian is a serious responsibility and, if you agree, puts things in a different light. But I have no advice how to approach her with your concerns. Maybe you should discuss it with a professional? Would that be helpful? It does sound a good idea for them to continue to spend a lot of time with you, if you can handle it comfortably. Modeling is the best childrearing advice I know. Good luck.

eta: One of my siblings and spouse ended up raising the child of someone else for four years. A psychologist helped them determine what was and wasn’t appropriate in their relationship with this child. It wasn’t what they originally had imagined. It certainly wasn’t what I would have predicted. They found it useful. fwiw.

It sounds like maybe you’ve been doing some caretaking and guiding of your niece, and modeling for her, in a parental sort of way, so maybe that also complicates the situation?

@Consolation perhaps frame your observations as questions…to your niece.

“Have you ever noticed that younger son seems like he has difficulty maintaining attention to things?”

See how she responds. If she says NO…and changes the subject…tha would be one thing. If she says “no…why do you ask”. You can tell her what you observed…again ending in a question…“hue you ever seen this at home?”

You will know from her responses and body language…how to proceed.

@doschicos , I guess I didn’t expect people to leap to thinking the worst of me. :slight_smile:

I don’t know what to think exactly about the negative attention issue. I am really concerned that he is possibly already in the habit of seeking it and defining himself that way.

Based on that description, I would just ask if he has ever been evaluated. If you are that close and they have asked you to be guardian, that is not out of bounds at all. A simple inquiry will either open a door to conversation or get slammed pretty quick.

“I guess I didn’t expect people to leap to thinking the worst of me”

How long have you been on CC? :wink:

Seriously though, you seem to have a much, much stronger aunt/niece relationship than most. I think when people think of a typical relationship of that type and their own relationships with extended family, based on those relationships many are prone to recommend the MYOB approach. Sounds like your niece values and seeks your input so hopefully would be receptive to your thoughts and guidance.

On the negative attention bit, maybe talk to your nephew directly about it as well. He sounds bright enough to converse with to explain how seeking negative attention isn’t a good thing. Might be worth addressing that concern with your niece as well if a conversation opens up about other issues.

Consolation, as I wrote before in this thread, I always read your posts on CC and appreciate your viewpoints.

It does sound as if, since you had the boys for a good period of time, that you could say that sometimes handling them was tiring, and you wondered how it was for the parents. That could lead to a conversation about ADHD perhaps. The fact that a familiar primary care doctor could validate this concern with a simple questionnaire might help.

There are approaches, like exercise, that can help a lot. My kid with ADD got through school as a dancer :slight_smile: My Tai Chi teacher’s mom told me he was her “little demon” and had ADHD, never was still, and she channeled that energy into martial arts classes at age 10 or so.

Sometimes, not always, a problem can actually turn out to be an opportunity, or a challenge can turn out to be a gift. I hope I am not sounding like a Polyanna here, because it is based on personal experience.

Perhaps having a positive attitude about possibilities would help in some subtle way.

So sorry, Consolation, for the misunderstandings on this thread and glad you came back. The forum needs you!

I think the way to broach the subject is to talk with her about his “jerk” comments. It is not news to her that he can be a behavioral challenge. It may be news to her that he describes himself that way. This was the first time I’d heard it from him. I know it would concern her. My POV is concern for him, not criticism of him.

BTW, at one point I told him to go outside and run around the house four times. He did it eight times. :smiley:

Does this child ever get alone time with you or with his parents? Does he model his brother? Does he compete for attention with brother? Not sitting at the table gets a whole lot of attention. I could think of lots of ways I would handle this if he was by himself. Having the brother there complicates things.

I guess, for me, it’s interesting to explore what you yourself might do to change behaviors, and if it is even possible, without involving his mother. But maybe that isn’t of interest? I don’t want to overstep. I am interested in challenging children. I like them.

to be honest, I like them best

Intteresting, alh, tai chi turned my brother’s life around.

Not all of your nephews’ behaviors may be in their control. Any response you do get from them might be because you’re taking the mentor role. Perhaps an evaluatuon helps- not just to label the problems, but to start trying the right fixes.

It sounds like what you are seeking is a consensus that it is okay for you as a non-parent to make a “plan of action” to help your nephew.
I give you a limited “yes” vote. Based on your knowledge of your nephew come up with what you think would be a good plan to help your nephew and present it. Thoughtfully. Carefully.

What’s to lose?
The worst case scenario is a “no” from the parents which is no different than never having tried.
The middle case is they take your observations to heart and make some changes.
The best case (in your eyes) is they listen and act totally.

But (there’s always a but…and this is important)–remember that you are NOT the parent.
You are NOT their guardian. The kids do NOT belong to you.

You have the role of a respected relative (which is great!). And that’s it.

And…
Your perceptions of “they acted fine when they were with me” is NOT the total picture.
Being willing to take in their pit bull dog means squat. No brownie points.
Teaching them table manners is great but doesn’t equal life lessons.
Same with sending them home with a math packet.

Don’t mix up the main message of “an observation of behavior” about ADD behavior others may miss and help your nephew in school with “observations of behavior” that are more mundane. Don’t muddy the waters.

For me table manners are sort of a metaphor and do equal life lessons.

Table manners are about conforming. They matter to some foks and not to others. Others might use a different activiity to show children how to cooperate and model adult behavior.

imho