How would you advise your daughter re: career?

I really appreciate the thoughtful way this discussion has progressed. It is not easy to balance work and family and every situation is different. I believe, however, that young women need to think about this as they chart their career path. No, we can’t predict the future and things can change, but we can look inside ourselves to come up with a likely plan. For some women, the stress of a demanding career tips the balance too far away from family. For others, being home full-time, much as they love their kids, leaves them aching for their lost work life.

It is very difficult to step off most career paths and then step back on after several years at the same place. In some cases, the work has changed so significantly over that time that getting back on the track is impossible. Some jobs make it impossible or impractical to work part-time (several lawyers I know ended up feeling like they were still working 40+ hours per week, just not 70, and getting paid part-time). Others may allow you to make your own hours. And some professions that don’t require a college degree can be very flexible and lucrative. I still recall the playgroup mom friend who was making as much as I was with my graduate degree as a dental hygienist and could make her own hours around her husband’s schedule (I am probably making more now).

While it is not possible to know before you have your kids, how you will feel about balancing work and family, many of us knew in college that we definitely wanted children and wanted a career path that would not require full-time childcare. After college, but before kids, many of us found that we needed to work to provide for the family, either alone or with our partner’s income. Thinking about this is important, especially before raking up large amounts of debt for a career that you are not passionate about.

This is such an interesting thread. I got a PhD myself (in public health & psychology). Initially I went with the intention of becoming a non-academic public health researcher. Starting in my fourth year of graduate school I started to wonder what an academic career might be like, especially because I loved teaching. I did a postdoc and realized six months in, like @Marian’s husband, that academia was not for me. So I took a job as a non-academic researcher at a tech company.

I love my job. It’s pretty flexible, and would be a good job for having children, if I were interested in that kind of thing at the moment. I’m 30, with no immediate or medium-term plans to have children. I like kids but don’t know if I want any of my own. (My husband feels the same.) Most of my coworkers have children. Most of them work around 7-3 or 8-4 and meet their kids off the bus. One has a nanny for her twins, but the rest either have day care or their kids are old enough for public school.

I think for most careers, the dream of “easily” taking a few years off and jumping back in or shifting easily to part-time work is…a dream. Nursing is one career that I think that can happen more easily and flexibly. Beyond that, I think it depends a lot on your workplace. Mine offers five months of paid maternity leave, and when you return you can phase in at part-time. I also don’t know whether it’s my region of the country (Pacific Northwest) or just the people I know, but parental roles seem to be so much more egalitarian here than when and where I grew up. So many more dads are picking kids up, carting them to events, staying home with them when they’re sick, pushing strollers, etc.

Women often put the burden on themselves to think about flexibility around family - spouses, children, aging parents. We start making these choices before we even HAVE these things to worry about. A lot of times, it causes us to opt out of demanding, lucrative, and/or rewarding careers because we’re worried about the time constraints. I remember worrying about it a lot when I was in college and early graduate school; when I was 20-21, I assumed that by the time I was 30 I would already have 2-3 children. And…I don’t, haha.

My mom regretted being a stay at home mom. She loved the time that she spent with us, but she hated the financial dependency on my father and the loss of identity and adult socialization she experienced. She became an LPN and went back to full-time work when I was 16. She was way happier, and I was super-proud of her.

If you are potentially interested in teaching at private schools, look up Carney, Sandoe. They’re a firm that specializes in faculty placement at private and independent schools. Also, several elite private schools have summer programs for college students who aspire to teach. Check out Choate Rosemary Hall, Phillips Academy, Phillips Exeter, and Cushing Academy. Other opportunities to try out summer teaching are Breakthrough Collaborative (very different population - teach at-risk middle school students in urban environments), Duke TIP (teach talented middle and high school students in various subjects; more similar to a upper-class private school demographic) and Johns Hopkins CTY (similar to Duke TIP, but the students have a wider age range).

And after college, there’s the Boston MATCH Corps program. Boston MATCH is a public charter school in Boston that mostly serves low-income kids of color, but is highly-rated and high-achieving. They have a one-year program called MATCH Corps in which they take recent college graduates and use them as tutors for MATCH students. It’s an AmeriCorps program, so it’s basically volunteer - you get a little money to live on - but MATCH corps will either help you get a master’s in education or will help with job or other graduate school placement after your MATCH year.

First complete your studies. Have a job in hand and then you can think about starting a family life. I say this because once you have a job in hand you’ll be able to take independent decisions. You are engaged and it’s okay to ask help from your partner. But you cannot always rely on him. You should have some income in your hand to run your family smoothly.

Several people have recommended private school teaching over public. Where I live, the privates require a degree beyond a bachelor’s. Publics require a teaching certificate.

If you have an idea about geography, look at the job listings in the area to see what’s required. For the private schools, most publish the % of teachers with graduate degrees. If it’s high, that’s telling you there’s a preference.

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When is your D planning to have kids? After 30? How many kids is she planning to have? 1-2?

<Why is parenthood – and especially motherhood – such a fraught decision in the US? Why are we discussing all the many ways that you can get screwed over if you have kids too early, or too late? What’s wrong with this picture?

Why doesn’t our country care about its children?>

Yep, Europe has wonderful child care support. Because they don’t have enough children! The fertility rates are much lower than in USA. The government is worried that there is not enough children “in the pipeline” to feed economy. This is the only reason, why government cares.

< How much would a nanny(fancy name for sitter) cost? $10, $15, $20/hr? >

$5-$12 per hour. Cash. California.

  1. AGREE
  2. As long as you are healthy and have a house, you can always earn enough money to feed your family. Even if your partner lost job, divorced, etc. It is good for a girl to have education. However, it is also important to have babies, when a girl is still capable of having them. If God gives you a child, God will provide for this child. Nobody is dying from hunger in USA. It is really OK to lower expectations, drive a cheap car, and shop at Wal-Mart. IMHO, babies are more important than Lexus / fancy vacations. Just IMHO.

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Agree, 200%. I witnessed it so many times :frowning:

When we met, I was a grad student at Stanford with a bright career ahead of me. My husband was a grad student as well, but I had better publications / research project / success, etc. I was a bit more promising scientist than he was. 20 years later, he has a career. I have a humble career (good paycheck, dead-end job), 4 kids, flexible hours, and a job close to home. I could have had a successful career, I was a good scientist. But I wished to have children. I am trying to write about women in STEM .A woman who could have had a career in STEM, but could not have a career and a family. BTW, my best friend managed to have both, career in STEM and family. She is a workaholic, she works nonstop. I am not that intense.

I think you’re giving too much credence to the supposed requirement to be a workaholic.

I’m a woman in STEM, and I’m not a workaholic. I have a 25+ year lucrative STEM career; work a 40 hour week; have kids & a life.

MODERATOR’S NOTE: The thread drifted off-topic, so I deleted a few posts. Please stay on the subject of the thread.

@californiaaa
<my now="" 27-year="" old="" daughter="" is="" in="" a="" phd="" program="" because="" she="" learned="" this="" lesson="" as="" well.="" god="" bless="" the="" child="" (and="" mom!)="" that="" has="" her="" own.="">

When is your D planning to have kids? After 30? How many kids is she planning to have? 1-2?

My daughter isn’t in a relationship, so kids are a far-off thought… I myself had her when I was 30, and her brother at 35, so I don’t particularly have a sense of urgency either.

Sometimes, from the observations, I wonder if you see the same issues and inequities around us, californiaaa-or just your side of the prism- grandma helping out, enough food on the table,2 working parents. How do you explain the realities of children going hungry, families working hard and losing, by no fault of their own? It isn’t all slackers vs good, hard-working, faithful, “successes.” There are few guarantees.

In OP’s case, she has some exploring to do and then some thinking. Luck will play its part, we hope her partner is supportive. I know plenty of STEM females who continued working, reasonable hours, home for dinner, good kids. A challenge, sure- one is wearing several hats and juggling. But OP will decide.

I live in a pretty diverse neighborhood in a very diverse city. I have friends in gated communities, or at least in towns which have 1 acre minimum zoning.

It is clear to me that folks in 1 acre minimum zoning towns live in a different America than I do, even when they are a ten minute drive away. Whether they are liberals, conservatives, or some combination thereof, most of them think like Californiaa- that nobody is hungry in America, that everyone can figure things out, that nobody is going to lose their house as long as they’ve got a college degree or aren’t addicted to heroin.

Just an observation. In cities like mine, highly educated people DO lose their homes. (and they aren’t drug addicts). The school system had to put a new breakfast, lunch AND protein based snack program in place because so many kids (even football players) were going through the entire day on so few calories. A local social services organization has a brand new weekend food program- kids who rely on the federal food programs often do no eat adequately on the weekend. They often have working parents (hard working people- two jobs each sometimes) who in the winter have to choose between heat and food, or rent and food, or medication for a chronically ill sibling and food. It was 8 degrees this morning as I watched kids waiting for the bus on the corner… how many of their parents are going to opt for heat this weekend instead of a real meal on Saturday and Sunday? You can apply for a state heating grant of course- that $100 will likely take you until mid-January if the cold continues. Then what?

These threads are so sad to me. I like most of the regular posters here so much… but some of you really need to get out more.

I live in Blossom’s America. Diverse area. Most people in my immediate neighborhood are doing well, but people lose jobs, some kids hit snags in college, too many are struggling to take care of their aging parents, aging people are falling apart in their homes with no one to take care of them. Just blocks from a us a big immigrant community is trying to figure out the rules of their new country, just like the Italians did 50 years ago and the Germans did 100 years ago in the exact same houses. Very few women have the luxury of staying at home full time, though some have figured out ways to work part time at least while the kids are small.

<just an="" observation.="" in="" cities="" like="" mine,="" highly="" educated="" people="" do="" lose="" their="" homes.="" (and="" they="" aren’t="" drug="" addicts).="" the="" school="" system="" had="" to="" put="" a="" new="" breakfast,="" lunch="" and="" protein="" based="" snack="" program="" place="" because="" so="" many="" kids="" (even="" football="" players)="" were="" going="" through="" entire="" day="" on="" few="" calories.="" local="" social="" services="" organization="" has="" brand="" weekend="" food="" program-="" who="" rely="" federal="" programs="" often="" no="" eat="" adequately="" weekend.="" have="" working="" parents="" (hard="" people-="" two="" jobs="" each="" sometimes)="" winter="" choose="" between="" heat="" food,="" or="" rent="" medication="" for="" chronically="" ill="" sibling="" food.="" it="" was="" 8="" degrees="" this="" morning="" as="" i="" watched="" waiting="" bus="" corner…="" how="" of="" are="" opt="" instead="" real="" meal="" saturday="" sunday?="" you="" can="" apply="" state="" heating="" grant="" course-="" that="" $100="" will="" likely="" take="" until="" mid-january="" if="" cold="" continues.="" then="" what?="">

I lived in poverty, when I was young. OK, I was young, and pretty, and Sun was shining.

<you can="" apply="" for="" a="" state="" heating="" grant="" of="" course-="" that="" $100="" will="" likely="" take="" you="" until="" mid-january="" if="" the="" cold="" continues.="" then="" what?=""> Fireplace? I do remember, we collected wood and chopped it. Heat-proofing your house also helps. I do remember when we put blankets on windows at night to keep our house warmer. Common, people survived during the Second World War and Holocaust. Nobody dies from hunger and malnutrition in USA.

In my original post I wrote that it is essential to be healthy and to have a house. And to have documents (that was not in the original post, but it is important). Everything else is doable. You, yourself, describe the net of support (free food, heating grants) that does exist. It is really a question of priorities - do you want a comfortable life with 1-2 children, or are you willing to take a risk and have more children, knowing that you would not be able to afford certain items for many years and (in the worst case scenario) you may have to rely on government services to support your family.

@californiaaa, I think you put the choice perfectly.

Most of us here (and most of our grown children who are starting or thinking about starting families) would choose the comfortable life with a small family. A much smaller number would chose the larger family and lesser degree of financial security – and you may be one of that smaller group.

@ Marian Thanks!

< How much would a nanny(fancy name for sitter) cost? $10, $15, $20/hr? >
From https://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/care-report/introduction/ -
The average cost of full-time care using an in-home caregiver, or nanny, is $28,353 a year. That’s equal to 53 percent of U.S. median household income, or 188 percent of income for a minimum wage earner, and is three times the average cost of in-state college tuition. Full-time in-home care costs range between $25,774 a year in Wisconsin and $33,366 a year in Washington, D.C.