I worked in a management job when D was small. I never felt guilty about it. Had good childcare and spent a lot of time with her. I did feel somewhat guilty about staying home for 10+ years. My kids were in school all day for much of that time and I spent a lot of time volunteering.
cbreeze, my comment was tongue in cheek and applied to anyone, both sexes yes…
I am not Phyllis Schafly here, just because I mention rewards of being home, which are many. I was forced by circumstances (child with medical needs) to be home and am not an ideologue. My own life experience these last 30 years has not included the kind of control and planning described in many of these threads. Instead I have learned to yield to circumstances and enjoy what I can, which was often time with my kids, yes.
When they got older, like teen years, I was able to do community work that improved my employability. Community colleges also offer skills classes for those returning to work. Most people here don’t have much contact with community colleges, perhaps, but they are a great resource for many.
My own daughters plan on being able to support themselves, and my son already does. Though one daughter currently works at a very low pay job and I fear she will have trouble supporting herself without a partner who contributes to rent, frankly. My other two are well on their way.
With two in the arts, we certainly have joked around about marrying someone with money. We also have joked that this country needs to bring back a royal court of some sort. Like the Medicis or Louis IV.
What I tell my daughters is to be able to take care of yourself. I’ve been working full time since I graduated college 33 years ago. Since my father passed away quite young and left my mom to take over a family business, something she was not prepared to do, I have always, always kept in mind that life (and death) happens.
Get the education you need to work in a career you enjoy. Keep skills current. Be aware of the requirements your chosen career puts on you - research, grant proposals, travel, all while teaching. Can your ed/experience be used in a corporate environment if you want to change?
My husband and I made parenting decisions together. One of those decisions was that both of us work outside the home. We both work for the same company in completely different fields, so schedules and benefits could align. We spent a lot on high-quality, consistent childcare. Our children thrived. We thrived. We struggled some and definitely passed up opportunities so we could be the family we wanted to be. Sometimes my job took priority, sometimes his. Since we were on the same page, it was not an issue.
Did we/do we have extras? Sure. Travel, a home in a good school district, decent vehicles, a fully-funded retirement. We pay double the taxes since we’re both earners and deal with it.
I saw many of the SAHM parents of my daughters try to jump back into FT employment at the same level they left when their children were born. It doesn’t happen easily. I also saw many people able to get out of awful situations because they had continued to work and could afford to leave. Others are still at home long after the kids left the nest and they love it.
Bottom line, do what works for you. Remember to put on your oxygen mask first before putting it on someone in your care. Every decision has consequences. Think about them.
Really???
On what planet does this take place on? Maybe in not so great schools . . . . the summers are used for research, the winter breaks are research. No research equals no tenure. Really?? Only work 12-15 hours a week??? It’s very hard for women to get tenure because of the pressure of the hours required outside of the classroom. Besides, tenure is being dropped by institutions. Google the percentage of tenured positions. Also google the percentage of academics that are adjuncts and even sadly living out of their cars.
You are sadly mistaken. You mean you only TEACH IN THE CLASSROOM during those hours. Do you know how long it takes to prepare an hour of lecture? What about the mentoring, the grading, the running of the labs and research? What about applying for grants, managing the grants (so that students have a lab and so that the school has money for overhead)? Do you know that you may have to apply for like 14 grants to get any funding? Do you know how hard it is to write a grant? What about keeping up with the alumni relations so that they continue to mentor the students and so that the donate money so that students have scholarships and placements in careers??
In addition proessors have administrative positions–overseeing speaker series, and the X club and the Y special interest area and the Z conference.
They also attend conferences aroudn the world
And run research around the world.
You have zero idea that professors work lime 80 or more hours a week, if they are at a decent institution.
Why are the ideal careers for Mom the ones that supposedly allow her the flexibility to drop everything to go supervise the kids?
The good careers for Mom should be the ones that earn her a FAT PAYCHECK like Dad’s.
Yes, I do know. I tried to clarify my meaning up thread, but I’ll say it again. Preparing for lectures and writing can be done at home if you have a child care person. So yes, you are busy 24-7, but you can still see your children, have meals with them, read them a bed time story, etc. You probably can’t cook, clean, and hang out with them all day.
The OP’s question is specifically centered around flexibility to “drop everything to go supervise the kids.”
[quote]
[C]areer flexibility is important to me. It would be great to be able to take a few years off and then jump back into the workplace, or to shift to part-time work relatively easily.**
@nw2this This is not reality. You may be able to do that at home, but try doing that with kids around. There’s a reason why there are so many more men in higher ed with the higher tracked paths, esp in the sciences. This is because it takes 24-7 support of someone else if you have kids.
You are sadly mistaken if you think you can write and think with kids around. Not possible.
Considering how many CC threads are about kids w divorced parents, who are screwed when the high earner Dad refuses to pay for college, the best career choice for Mom, is one where she earns enough to not rely on Dad.
I have a neighbor with young kids whose husband was tragically diagnosed with ALS a few years ago.
It’s not just the divorced… the primary breadwinner’s ability to earn a salary can evaporate. You think childcare is expensive? Try nursing care (in home) for an adult who cannot swallow or be left alone for more than 10 minutes.
I see young women leaving the workforce with a “I can always get back on track if I need to” and I shudder. In some fields- yes. But not every field. And if you’d like to be introduced to former Directors of Marketing and VP’s of Credit Analysis who are now teaching yoga or working as receptionists at the local hair salon, I’d be happy to make that intro. Women who left jobs 12 years ago making 80-100K who are now clearing 25K (with no benefits) and who are angry- really angry- that “nobody told them” that getting back on track would be impossible.
You really think that in 12 years there won’t be new technologies and new disruptive industries and new ways of doing things? For most of these women I know, their industries have undergone fundamental changes. Their jobs are gone. So now they have kids coming up on the college years and the plan to go back to earn a professional salary to help pay for college- well that’s kaput.
Men/Women- choose with your eyes open.
Since everyone is talking about whether or not academia is a good career if you want to have kids, I wanted to throw in my two cents:
I am the 18-year-old child of a tenured academic. Frankly, I can’t think of a more child-friendly career. Most of my friends don’t see their parents (businessmen, doctors, lawyers, 9-to-5ers, etc) until at least dinnertime, if at all. They were mostly latch-key kids or had nannies take care of them. They don’t spend any more than an hour or two a day with their parents.
On the other hand, my dad (the academic) is always there to drop me off and pick me up every day from school. He gives his classes when I’m at school, and I spend all afternoon with him. It’s not like the workday is done at 3 pm, though. He writes papers and prepares classes into the night, but he can do it at home with me rather than in an office. There’s something to be said for working on homework while sitting next to your dad doing the same.
He does sometimes leave a few days at a time for conferences. When I was younger, he would go abroad for fieldwork for a couple of weeks every two years, so academia would be tough to manage unless you have a co-parent or a grandparent who’s willing to look out for the kids occasionally. (My dad hasn’t been doing much in the field for the past several years, since he worked in what is currently an active war zone…)
I consider myself so very lucky to have a dad with a job as flexible as he does. I love spending time with him, and I can’t imagine what my life would be like if I he worked in an office constantly.
That said, a caveat:
By the time I was born, my dad was already a tenure-track professor. It would be impossible for him to have a kid as a grad student (too poor and too overworked – those TAships/RAships/stipends are barely enough to live on comfortably, let alone raise a family). He also got lucky in that the job he was offered was in a nice city in SoCal, rather than East Podunk in the middle of nowheresville. He also got lucky that he got a tenure track position in the first place, since the academic job market is becoming increasingly competitive.
My point is, academia is as good as it gets in terms of raising children, but ONLY if you get to a certain point in your career before starting a family. As a kid, I couldn’t ask for anything better.
I think that’s the point for any career. My daughter is working very hard now so when she is ready to have kids she will be at a point of her career that she will have more flexibility. Her boss who just had his second child works from home when he is not traveling. D1 and others on the desk support him in such a way that it is not necessary for him to be in the office everyday.
What good is an “ideal” career choice if the number of job vacancies are extremely limited?
TENURED faculty jobs are few and far between, and becoming even fewer and farther between, as colleges increasingly turn to cheap adjunct instructor.
FYI
I am an adjunct professor who teaches five classes. I earn less than a pet-sitter
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/22/adjunct-professor-earn-less-than-pet-sitter
Academia’s support for income equality only applies to the unwashed masses outside the ivory tower, which don’t compete with it.
Ok my two cents.
I have a BA, MA and JD. While I had great scholarships all through my education - I did also have a great deal of debt at the end of law school. Therefore my first piece of advice is - if you want to be able to AFFORD to take time away from employment make sure to do everything to minimize your debt out of school.
I had my first child while I was in law school and my second while I was a new associate. Neither times would necessarily be considered a great time to have a child - but you can make anything work!
Don’t be so sure you know right NOW how you will feel in the future. I never thought I would want to step away from work after having kids…but when I had kids I did feel that it would be best for me to be around more than I could be when I was working full time. HOWEVER, now that the kids are older I do regret not being more actively engaged in my profession over the last few years as now I would like to jump back in and it is not so easy to do so!
My final piece of advice - picking your PARTNER is the MOST important decision you will make that will reflect on raising a family and working. A partner who shares your values and who will support your decisions is the most important factor - so choose wisely. And maybe delay choosing until YOU know what your goals and plans are.
As mentioned upthread in many fields it is difficult to pick up a career after being out of the workforce. Young women are frequently told “you can always go back to work”, but the reality is that sometimes you can’t. Of course that’s why some young women choose a career where it is more possible, but that can backfire , too. My first career was as a medical technologist - a career with flexibility. I thought that I would have a few kids, work part time, etc. Except that I hated that job. Went back to school, fell into accounting, got my CPA , went to work in corporate accounting and loved it. I never anticipated that.
I returned to corporate accounting after 10 years out and ended up started all over again at the bottom. I have moved up some , but the reality is that I will never be where I was before or could have been. I now make good money, but the first several years back I could not have supported myself and my kids if I had to. The idea of “get your degree, work a few years and you can always go back if you need to” is not true in the corporate world.
This is such a hard and painful issue for women (I won’t speak for man, because I’m not one!) because it comes with so much baggage. Hopes, expectations, guilt, past history. Everything in a woman’s life converges on this issue. And there are always tradeoffs for every woman. I think it’s important wherever possible to affirmatively make choices, rather than just letting whatever happens happen. Of course, there are circumstances where that’s not possible, but I don’t think these are decisions that should be made without considerable thought.
A young relative is currently going through the decision process and she is having a very tough time, which breaks my heart. She has been spectacularly successful at her career - far beyond what she ever could have expected. Partly because she turned out to have a great knack for something unexpected, and partly because of timing. She is very young and has been promoted to the level of people a decade and more ahead of her and makes a very fat paycheck with all the accolades and accommodations of a person at that high level, along with the attention that comes with being so young. Her husband is also very successful and has a lucrative career. They both work long hours and have a nanny. She is now pregnant with the second child and hates her life because she wants to be with her kids. Her husband is a great partner and they hold shared values and priorities, but he doesn’t feel the same longing to be with the kids. He likes the huge income that they share. She is proud of her career and knows that if she steps out it will be hard to step back in. But the life she wants for herself doesn’t involve working 60-80 hours a week and being accessible most of the time. I’m sure they will eventually make a good decision, but the process isn’t always easy.
The people who are posting about the difficulties of a career in academia (including the difficulty of even finding a position) have a good point.
But the issue is less crucial if you get your PhD in a field where there is an industry that hires PhDs and if you are willing to work in that industry. For example, for someone with the OP’s interests, it might be the pharmaceutical industry.
My husband has a PhD. He decided during his first year in a postdoc that an academic career was not for him. Fortunately, he was in a field where it was possible for PhDs to go into industry. He has had a fine career, but once he ditched the postdoc, he never set foot on a university campus again.
@Marian, good point. My daughter is in a PhD program but would prefer NOT to work in academia and is doing everything she can to avoid that route.
DH, a prof, was deathly afraid D1 would follow her dream into academia. She shared his academic interests and is the sort who makes things happen. But he knew, first hand, how difficult it would be.
She did do the major, loved it. But is now working in business. I told her not to be afraid to work her butt off in the beginning, build that resume, but also take some risks, while young. (If anything, she ened up much closer to what I did in my field.)
OP has time to refine her goals, check the various paths. I do agree about pharma- it’s an opp to use the science and build business skills. It’s corporate. Plenty of starter opps for gals who are on the ball. One aspect is sales. Do well and you have a quantitative record, not just “a job well done.”
@zoosermom, your young friend’s life mirrors my D’s though my D’s 2 babies arrived at the same time. When she was working, her work didn’t stop after leaving the office. The thought of coming home, cooking and taking care of her babies alone and then having to attend to work emails after the babies were asleep sounded too exhausting to her.
When her work wouldn’t let her work PT, she and her husband made the joint decision for her to stay home. I don’t think she regrets it.
She told me they are still saving a lot of money because they don’t go out as much. They had been a high-living, free spending couple and I am glad their lifestyle and priorities have changed.