@californiaaa, what advice would you give to your own child about when to start a family and how to prepare for and establish a career?
I think it’s great that things worked out well for your mom and you – with considerable help from your parents and grandparents. But is this the way you would want your own child to do things, or do you have something different in mind?
Good for you, californiaaa. That doesn’t make it so for everyone. It doesn’t even mean it’s so, 15 years after you did it.
OP is talking abut the responsible path. Not how you used the system.
“Sooner or later, everyone becomes financially independent.” Totally untrue.
Not everyone even has parents and grandparents able or willing to become free childcare and/or to help with the expenses of raising their grandchildren and great-grandchildren. And some wouldn’t be paying for a partnered child with kids of their own to continue their higher education. Are you for real? Your advice is, “Have kids really young, take what free resources are out there, get your parents and grandparents to help you survive” and you call that a good idea? Wow.
That’s actually a prescription to NOT become financially independent. It’s a way to ensure that some young people will actually stay trapped in the poverty that you had considerable help escaping thanks to the taxpayers and your family. Not everyone gets such great free resources and multiple family members and their money to help them. I say this as someone who spends part of every work week directing people to resources. There aren’t nearly enough to help people play at parenting while they grow up, get an education while mom and grandma babysit. Holy cats.
I told my girls to work very hard to get to a level of their profession so they could have more control over their time before they have kids. I also told them not to quite their jobs if they wanted a career. They would be better off to pay what they have to get necessary home care for their children instead of staying home. If they have to have one nanny per child plus a housekeeper so they could keep their careers going, so be it. If they were at a certain level of their career then they could take time off to be there for their kids for various activities.
I have always worked with nannies for my kids. Their nannies took good care of them, but I was always there for parents/teachers conference, their recitals and school trips. It was important for me to work, both financially and mentally. I would have been very unhappy as a 100% stay home mom. What was important was my kids knew I was available to them.
D1 decided to go into investment banking, which was one of more demanding careers. She didn’t decide not to go into it because it was so demanding. She worked crazy hours the first 2 years as an analyst. As a VP now she is able to get home most nights by 8. With the next promotion she will have even more flexibility and it is when she plans on having children.
With all the new technologies out there, people are able to work remotely, and companies are a lot more family friendly. I don’t think any women should shy away from a career because of family/children.
californiaaa’s advice is questionable and seems detached from the experience of 99% of Americans. Just something to think about 
I am only a few years older than you, OP. I was raised in a feminist household where I was always told that I can and should do whatever I damn well please with my life. Want kids? Great. Don’t? Great. Want to get married? Cool! Don’t? Also cool! (Though they were a little ruffled at how young I married- 24… but I was always an older-than-my-age kind of person.) Not going into higher ed was not an option though. They knew I’d go and get my PhD a decade before I even considered it but they never said a word about it.
My (male) partner’s dream has always been a SAHD. He has followed me around as I pursue my education and is always just happy to go along for the ride. There have been several points where he’s been unemployed whether it be because we moved or it was a temporary job or whatever. It’s never bothered him so no “ego” issues as has been mentioned by some others.
I’m the first in my family to go to college so the idea of balancing a family and higher ed isn’t something my family can help me with… and that’s ok. I have a lot of academia role models that I can look to if that’s a path we (my partner and I) eventually want to go down.
With all of that said, I do have an immediate, negative reaction to the idea that a woman is going to jump straight from undergrad into being a SAHM or work only part-time. This is because I worked at a domestic violence shelter for several years and so many women couldn’t get on their feet because they had no full time or professional work experience. It was just a vicious, heartbreaking cycle to see over and over and over again.
This is NOT to say that that will happen to you but there are lots of other ways that women can and do get “screwed” by starting families right out of college. It could be a divorce down the road and suddenly you have to support yourself, or the death or disability or even layoff of a partner, etc. I just think it’s smart to always have a backup plan to support yourself and any possible children. I’d give the same advice to any man who wanted to be a SAHD before any “real” work experience.
Even my SIL who is the same age as Mr R and I and just gave birth to her first baby a few days ago (I’m an aunt for the first time and SO excited!) worked for a few years after undergrad. Both she and my BIL have paths where they can financially self-sustain if something happens to the other. She happens to be a manager at a daycare. She chose that specific path because she knew she wanted kids and wanted them young so this way she could still work but also have discounted childcare (she gets a discount because she works there). But it’s also a way that she could keep her skills up in case (Zeus forbid) something happen to her husband. She experienced the death of her mom as an undergrad in college so she, like me, knows that life can be incredibly unpredictable.
Again, just throwing things out there as someone who was in your shoes in many ways just a few years ago :). Plans B, C, and D are never, ever a bad idea.
I don’t think part-time work has to be bad, but it may work out better in some fields than others. Like others, I’ve worked full-time, part-time, not at all, for others and been self-employed. For me part-time work was about keeping a foot in the door and not losing skills and contacts. I barely made enough to make it worth while - about minimum wage by the time I payed for day care and taxes. But for me it was worth it to get out of the house and talk to adults 20 hours a week. I still had plenty of time with my kids and I think their family day care situation was pretty optimal.
Being my own boss in a job where I could either meet clients when my kids were in school or on evenings and weekends when dh was around worked well for me. Not all jobs are so flexible.
I think there are real dangers to being a SAHM for too long - too many sad stories of partners who left or died or who lost jobs.
I’ve been very lucky that dh had a steady job with good benefits.
I don’t want to give different advice to boys, but I do think it’s a lot easier to breastfeed if you aren’t working full time. I’d love to see all of us working for more flexible and fewer hours. I don’t think work life balance has gone in a healthy direction at all. My youngest is planning a career in the Navy, is girl friend is an academic. If they stay together, I think it’s going to be hard to balance careers.
In terms of sons, my non-hypothetical 27 yos is the father of 3 and has been married since he was 21. He married the young lady he fell in love with at first sight at the age of 10. Could tragedy strike? Absolutely. She is a childhood AML survivor, so they are very aware. But their POV is the opposite of living life dictated by possible worst case scenarios. To quote my ds when he was 17 and getting increasingly serious about his relationship with her and I asked him if he was really ready to face her possibility of secondary cancers or coming out of remission and all the pain and suffering that would come with it, his response was, “I would rather spend whatever days we have together than face today without her.” That deep soul-mate bond has never showed a hint of changing. They have life insurance, disability insurance, and plans for what should happen if a worst case scenario should ever occur for either one of them. They are also diehard Dave Ramsey followers, are frugal, and pay cash only with their only debt being their house. They have significant savings. And they live each day to the fullest together. It works for them.
They also have a large group of friends their ages who have babies and toddlers with SAHMs, several of them wives of other engineers that my ds works with. My dil has play date groups that meet at the park and library. They are not alone in their lifestyle choices.
Not that I am advocating that for the OP. Just wanting to interject that many young people do have these POV and they are different from the main POV in this thread.
ETA: I should have added that I also have a ds who never plans on marrying and another whose focus is on getting into grad school. My current sr, a Dd, has grad school, world travel, living abroad for her goals. I’m not sure marriage and family fit her life objectives. There are plenty of viewpoints to go around.
With three kids and a previous “career” working with the homeless (not especially lucrative even in administration) it was much smarter financially for me to stay home. Then one of our kids developed a chronic, lifelong health issue that required literally hourly monitoring, and involvement by me even while at school. Work was out of the question. When my kids got a little older, I maintained some legitimacy for work by doing a lot of projects around town, working on committees, that kind of thing. My husband had a stroke and I found that when I did apply for work (we’re talking salaries in the $40k range) I made finalist every time. I would have taken one of those jobs, but then one of my kids got hit by a car and I got cancer. Life happens. You cannot prepare for what comes your way in the way this some of this thread seems to convey. I have survived financially by avoiding debt, period.
I do not regret those many years being home with my children. I homeschooled two of them for 6 months, separately, when they needed healing or help after difficulties in the school environment (one was bullied, one has learning disabilities). The one with health issues was able to spend time at home as needed because I was there.
But more than that, I was fully there in the mornings, and fully there when they came home from school, and so enjoyed every minute of their growing up. I was always top of my class and people expected big career accomplishments from me but early on, in my 20’s, it seemed clear that was not the path I was going to take. I worked in social service and also did a stint living in the woods in Vermont, long before the idea of sustainability was so popular.
There are many ways to live. There are many ways to make your priorities prevail. It is possible to live on an amount of money that many would consider too low. You don’t have to do everything at once.
Women are still the losers on the career end, if you want to look at it that way. There are exceptions, like Romanigypsyeyes’ husband. But I do know many women who stayed home and then went to school or went back to work after many years at home and did just fine in very rewarding jobs. One I know works in college admissions, one got her MSW and works for hospice, one runs an outreach music program, and one started her own website design company.
The “professions” are not the only option. Being flexible is key.
@oldfort “As a VP now she is able to get home most nights by 8”. I’d rather be poor lol. I’m not sure I’d say WOMEN should sacrifice a career for family but I do think someone has to sacrifice or something has to give. You never hear anyone on their deathbed wishing they had worked more, but I talk to many people who wish they had worked less and spent more time with their families (I do social work with the elderly population).
@NEPatsGirl - I had a demanding job while raising my girls, just like many other parents. I did manage to be in my kids’ lives and never missed their milestones. I flew back from overseas to attend my kids’ recitals, even when they were in college, and I took time off when they had school trips.
Different strokes for different folks. I enjoyed my financial freedom and options I was able to provide for my children. At the same time, I don’t think I missed that much of my kids’ lives. Of course, I was lucky that my kids didn’t have special needs, so I was able to hire nannies for their day to day care.
D1 sees a lot of female directors at her firm are able to have children and still work. They are good role models for her. Senior people are aware she will be married soon and probably start a family in a short time, and they are still grooming her and giving her additional responsibility. I think it is all good.
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I always wonder if it is men or women who say that. And were the women busy with careers or busy with keeping house or volunteering ? The moms I know who kept careers going while raising their kids seemed to spend a lot of time with their families (like oldfort). I worked in a management job until D was 4 1/2 (got laid off when company moved/reorganized) and never regret it. I spent a lot of time with D and remember being busy, but happy.
I think that has a lot to do with the perception of job versus career and the level of education of the women. I’m uneducated, but have a great job (how lucky am I?), however, it wasn’t something I went to school for or aspired to and put my heart into. It has also always been at least a 60 hour work week with limited flexibility. Most of the women I know who don’t have good, professional jobs with respect and flexibility do regret the time spent away from the family because it often doesn’t come with other personal benefits. I hope that makes some sense and maybe provides a little perspective about how the other half feels. And is exactly why my husband and I have moved heaven and earth to get our kids the education we never had.
One reason I’m happy that I kept working as the kids were growing up is that now I can earn good money pretty easily while we’re trying to pay for two kids in college! A LOT of my women friends quit working when their kids were little. Now they’re desperate to earn money to help pay for tuition, and it’s really hard to get more than a $12/hour job at LL Bean or something. One woman was a talented graphic designer, but she quit before computers were used much in the field, and now she’s clueless. It is definitely something to keep in mind.
In hindsight, I’m very glad to have had my job when it came time to pay for college and do think that working was the right choice, but on a purely personal level, I don’t think I ever had my full quota of mommy time and miss that. I know a lot of women of my class who feel that way. Although grateful and blessed to be employed!
I think you have a good point,zoosermom (post 92).
I am still curious as to what people are advising for their sons. I am hoping that both D and S have fulfilling careers, whether they have families or not. D and SIL do want to have a child or two, but I see them both pursuing careers and working things out. I hope so.
Most women I know don’t have professional jobs and don’t make enough money to pay for child care. The topic of this thread is about someone contemplating grad school and a profession, but just want to say, this thread seems geared to a certain expected income level. (On the other hand, parents making minimum wage or so can expect some financial aid which helps.)
Also, I get tired of the word “sacrifice.” I think it is a pretty negative word to use about parenting (as in sacrificing career to stayhome). If you are lucky, it is a choice, not a sacrifice. Ditto for working in a career and not “staying home.”
I also do not agree that saying one wishes they had more time with their family on their deathbed means that a woman should not have a career. Everything is a trade-off but it is very possible to be a good, hands-on parent and have a career. IMHO, if both parents work very long hours and travel a lot for work, it would be difficult to keep family life in balance. Often it is the mom that makes the decision to tip the balance toward family while the dad tips for work. Not always, as I know several women who had the more demanding careers and their families were fine as dad was around more. I am glad I have had both a career and a family. I would not be happy facing an empty nest and no work life. It also helped when DH got downsized out of a job to have another source of income, even though he luckily found something fairly quickly.
What would I tell my sons? I would tell them too to consider family balance when looking at a career. But the reality is that more often (generalization I know, but also based on experience with myself, family and friends), it is the woman that wants to be the hands-on parent and is willing to modify career goals. None of my kids are quite at that point yet, but certainly something to discuss with potential partners. I am not sure how to completely change the family dynamic as women still seem to do more of the emotional and planning work within the family - scheduling the sitter, taking time off for the sick kids, running carpools and meeting with teachers. It will be interesting to see if the next generation of parents successfully changes that dynamic.
Fallgirl, I’m going to cop to sexism on this issue because I know that I bring my own, personal regrets to the issue. My husband was a very involved father and usually worked nights so he could be the one driving the kids around and attending things because my skillset is not flexible. He couldn’t have been more loving or involved, but I absolutely craved my children and to this day I would prefer to have them all RIGHT HERE next to me at all times. He loves them, but it isn’t and never was such a profound need for him, and I assume that my son will be a good and involved dad but won’t have the same pull that I perceive many moms to have, particularly with very young kids. One of my daughters is like me in that regard and I do tell her that she should prioritize giving consideration to how she will be a mom, whereas my other daughter isn’t necessarily sure she even wants kids, so I tell her to take it as it comes and see what matters to her at a particular time. But based on my own experiences, I do perceive a difference where my son is concerned. And based on his words, as well. He wants a family, but as a college freshman, he voices that in the context of wanting to be able to support and provide for a family.
A good friend of mine was considering quitting her job when she had her first child. Then her H was laid off while she was on maternity leave and she had no choice. She ended up leaving that job for a better one while her H took over as the prime parent. He always worked but her job was the more lucrative one and she travelled a lot. Turns out that her H was really great at being a hands on parent. They had a second child and as the kids got older her H was able to return to school and open a business. By the time the kids were teens they both had demanding careers but they both love what they do and the family thrived.