How would you advise your daughter re: career?

Parents Forum
101

Lots of good advice here already. I would just add that there is a difference between a “flexible” schedule and a “compatible” one. Academia is compatible in that winter and summer breaks align with the school calendar. It is possible to arrange your classes so you can pick the kids up after school (but you might experience push back for doing so). In many ways, it is not “flexible” in that it’s difficult to deviate from the prescribed calendar and that like any other working parent, you will have to accommodate for sick days and early dismissals. You may not be able to participate in field trips or take off from class to see a child do a school presentation.

While there is somewhat greater choice about where academics do their work, they still have to do that work and there can be a lot of it. Not all of it can be done at home. You would probably begin your work day before the kids get up in the morning and would continue to work after they go to bed. A true “vacation” can be elusive. Academic jobs are scarce - you may be offered employment in a location with a poor public school system or in an environment that isn’t optimal to raise a family. Then you might have to factor in the possibility of a lengthy commute and/or paying for private school.

I have a friend who is tenured at a flagship university and has a special needs child. She is thinking of leaving academia to teach high school instead because the administrative and research components of her job leave her stretched too thin and her child requires specific accommodations that aren’t available everywhere.

I think that HS teaching, assuming a manageable student load, is probably more compatible with parenting than academia. Other suggestions made here, like patent law, also sound sensible. Whatever you decide, I will pile on and say that the ability to be financially self-sufficient is essential - you never know what surprises life will bring. You sound like a sensible person and it is wise to think about work/family balance while you are still young and can chart your course. Good luck!

102

How are your writing skills? I ask because I’ve had a fulfilling, flexible career as a freelance writer since my first child was born 20 years ago, and much of my work was for medical device/pharmaceutical companies. Yet I’ve had an even more fulfilling 20 years as a mom, and never missed a game or a performance for work. Many of my friends who took the last 20 years off are bored out of their minds now and can’t figure out what to do. Meanwhile, I’ve shifted gears somewhat but still basically a very happy work-from-home writer. If you peruse job listing for science/medical writers you may be pleased to see the array of options: grant writing, marketing, sales training, technical manuals, etc., many seeking individuals with science degrees.

103

@oldfort Me too – it was hard but I did it. As a matter of fact even though my ex was a SAHD, I was the one that was driving to skating, competitions, horse shows, lacrosse etc. I did teacher conferences (most of the time), IEP meetings for my special needs daughter and the like. It was my ex that was the big baby about it – he loved the financial rewards but not the work that came along with it. Honestly, my two youngest are in high school and I am still doing it sans quite as much travel as then.

104

I’m finding this thread so interesting…there are so many different paths, obstacles and opportunities.

mamaedefamilia makes a really good point about flexible vs compatible. My H is a HS teacher. His schedule was very compatible with our kids’ schedules and it was great having him home during the summer. But his schedule wasn’t very flexible. It’s not easy to just go in late, leave early or take a day off (not necessarily impossible, but not easy). So it was up to me to be flexible. And fortunately, I could be.

Most of my career as a software engineer has been part time (I reduced to 20 hours when my D was born more than 20 years ago). My company also allows for very flexible hours so I was always there to pick up my kids from school and was able to take part in all their school functions or stay home with them when they were sick or had a day off. I loved this flexibility and feel very blessed to be able to be there for my kids.

105

I have some regret about not putting my career ambitions first. I’ve always worked full-time, but in the kind of job that only brings in $$, not the kind of job that builds a satisfying & rewarding career.

There was a long stretch when the kids were young that H & I worked opposite shifts in order to make it all work. I often felt exhausted and like I wasn’t doing anything particularly well. It’ll be interesting to see if the kids even remember that there was always a parent home and how nice that was, or if they will remember two very tired not always cheerful parents!

106

My family members vary in how they address the issue of career/vs childcare

Mom - taught in a junior college until 2nd kid was born. Eventually started a housecleaning business to have some income while setting her own schedule. Took younger children along with her to house cleaning jobs when necessary.

Sister1- PhD, data science, vehemently opposed to the idea of children. Ended up with two step children :P. She currently works from home, and gets stuck with a lot of transporting the kids to/from school.

Sister2 - IT manager, currently part time, has two children. Will go back to full time after third kid is 3 or so.

Sister3 - PhD, bench science, gearing up for first kid, planning to have husband be a stay at home dad.

Myself - PhD, software engineering, have managed to luck into a job with a very flexible schedule. Will be looking at adoption/having a kid in 5yrs or so (adoption more likely).

But you never know how life is going to turn out…

107

Like @Slurpee64, I did freelance medical/scientific writing and editing for 20 years while raising a family. I worked mostly for publishing companies rather than pharmaceutical companies, though, because I’m more of an editor than a writer. I liked the work and the flexibility, but there was a catch (and I knew it at the time). I always worked on projects independently. I never gained any experience in supervising others or managing projects. Thus, when I went back to working full-time in a regular job, I was not qualified for a management position, and I was too old for anyone to think of me as being on a career path that would lead toward such a position. So I do pretty much the same work now that I was qualified for 30 years ago, and I will never advance in a career. And I work for a supervisor who is 20 years younger than me. This is OK with me, but it might not be OK with the OP.

Another thing to think about with freelance work is that it doesn’t come with benefits. So, for all practical purposes, it works out well only if your spouse has a job that provides good benefits.

Switching topics rather drastically:

OP, have you ever considered whether you would like a career as a patent examiner? After a few years of training and experience (in Alexandria, Virginia, which is a close-in suburb of Washington, DC), it’s an amazingly flexible job that allows for telecommuting (including telecommuting from other parts of the country), oddball hours, and the possibility of part-time work. They only hire people with certain college majors, and chemistry is one of them. You might want to visit the Patent and Trademark Office web site and see what you can find out.

108

Marian I’m glad you mentioned the management issue. Years ago I was considered smart,hard working, etc and was on the move up. I was a Director when I was laid off, but after a short part time stint I was home for 10 plus years. When I returned I was back at staff level and while I have gotten one promotion I’m certain it is my last. I am not considered to be moved up anymore due to my age ( it is never actually said, but…). That may be ok with some people, but it bothers me.

109

Maybe, if this thread keeps going, I’ll revise my thoughts. But what we’re talking about is our own, very personal reactions to how our lives were, are, and our view of that. I’m not sure what OP is taking from this. Or, what she can, since her own opportunities will be different, we know little about her.

I clearly remember my mother giving advice based on her successes and disappointments. She was open that, if she had had her druthers, she would have been a wealthy wife, maybe into interior design, on a few committees, raising wonderful children. Instead, my father, a brilliant catch by anyone’s standards, fell apart, it led to a messy divorce when I was young, she went back to work (in corporate.)

And what I took from that wasn’t the regrets about missed family time, the missed “Town and Country Magazine” life, but the nature of fulfillment, how it can come in many ways, in various experiences. The little pieces can add up. Not one path, not one vision of success, but how we respond. She loved her career. In our case, family was a team commitment. She didn’t always get to pick us up, etc. But as a successful man once told me, a lot has to do with quality of the time with our families, not just quantity.

Granted, some women here had unexpected challenges or disappointments. (I did, too.) Of course, life’s like that. And you have to cover your butt with some education, some resume, some safety net, in case. Sometimes, it means going for a certification (that teaching cert, some career you can always plug back into, if needed, some additional skills on the resume, etc.) But some of this is like the airplane example- put on your own oxygen ask first, so you can then best tend to the others, your children or others around you. Will stop here, for now.

110

@FallGirl Ditto. My industry changed, the trail blazing was done, I was part of a massive layoff. And so on. I’ve picked up the pieces many times, can see how the variety of experiences works for me. But of course it bothers me, too.

111

There are two possible scenarios. First, to have children at 30+, when you are established financially, career + house. Obvious minuses - you can’t have many children, you may not get your own children at all, pregnancy may be difficult, you have to work until 60 to support your children (college is expensive), you will be too old to by the time your grandchildren will go to college (80+, if every generation repeats this scenario). Tragedies can strike at any age, divorce / illness / unemployment. And you are older.

Second scenario - get children early, rely heavily on the financial help / babysitting by parents and grandparents, come back into workforce at 30+, when you already established your family. Minuses - you rely on your family (parents / grandparents). Pluses - you are younger, healthier, your parents are healthier (they are, probably, in 50s, and probably, working), your grandparents are healthier (at 70+ they are still able to help). If something is wrong with your spouse - you have a second chance. It is easier to change a partner in 20s than in 30s. Since you rely on a large umbrella of relatives, it is less likely that you would be abandoned and left desperate.

It is much easier to explain a gap in employment in 20s than in 30s. It is very difficult to come back to workforce after being stay-home-mom if you are in 40s. Very difficult to get an entry position in 40s. Much easier, if you are younger.

112

My first child was born on my 30th birthday and it’s worked out quite well for us. I was not ready to have children when I was younger. DH and I really enjoyed the six years before our first came along, also - our marriage was more stable than it would have been if we’d had children shortly after being married.

Everyone is different, though. I don’t think you can say which course is “better.”

113

OP mentioned she wanted “a lot” of children.

Given the fact that a bachelor’s degree at many public schools now costs in the range of $100,000, I think OP should keep her earning potential in mind when choosing a career if she wants to educate those prospective children.

Unless she marries well, many careers won’t pay enough to send “a lot” of kids to college. Certainly being a high school chemistry teacher won’t, unless teacher salaries go up, and college costs come down. Neither is likely.

And even if she marries well, as we all know, that’s no guarantee of a lifetime of comfort. There are business set backs, illnesses that end careers and bankrupt families, and divorces which leave all too many women facing a decline in the quality of life.

As I mentioned earlier, the greatest gift a woman can give herself is the gift of financial independence. And yes, that may come at a cost of having fewer children, later, and maybe not spending as much time with them as she may have imagined.

Yet I still deeply believe that strong independent women raise strong independent children.

That it’s better to be a woman of means who struggles with a work/life balance, than a woman in need who struggles with the idea of how to educate her children and prepare them for a strong future.

114

@ raneck
Your mother could afford 4 kids. It looks like your generation may afford 2, at best. I wish my Ds have many, many kids.

115

<Given the fact that a bachelor’s degree at many public schools now costs in the range of $100,000, I think OP should keep her earning potential in mind when choosing a career if she wants to educate those prospective children.

Unless she marries well, many careers won’t pay enough to send “a lot” of kids to college.>

Everything would be different in 20 years. The current crazy prices for college degrees are not sustainable. In 20 years there will be another model of college education, IMHO.

116

How old are your daughters, @californiaaa? If one of them, is, say, 18, are you urging her to find a husband quickly so that she can start a family in a few years?

It would not have occurred to me – or most of us – to urge our children to find permanent partners while they were still in high school or even while they were in college. Some people do meet their spouse in college, but it’s not something that most parents specifically advise their children to do, and most of us don’t worry if they’re still unattached at graduation time. (In fact, some people think it’s an advantage to be unattached at graduation because you have more flexibility in terms of location when it comes to finding a job.)

But if you’re going to have a family early, this sort of thinking doesn’t work, does it?

117

Well, not many women are in the structural engineering field still. :frowning: I’m on the board of directors for our state association and help to arrange meetings. I just looked at the signup for next week’s meeting. 26 people have signed up to attend. I am the only woman in the group. Sigh.

118

I think when people are trying to decide whether to stay home or to work, they shouldn’t just look at financial at that moment, but look at long term. After paying for childcare, transportation, clothing… financially it may not look like it is worthwhile to work, but if you look at it as an investment so you could have a long term career (you like). As we all know, you only need childcare for a limited time period, whereas career is for life. Of course, this is assuming you enjoy your work and you want a career. It is very hard to get back in after you take time off. I am not saying every woman wants to work outside of home or it is the only way to go, but for my kids, I am telling them not to give up their careers.

119

“Everything would be different in 20 years. The current crazy prices for college degrees are not sustainable. In 20 years there will be another model of college education, IMHO.”

Yes. It could all be worse in 20 years, especially if there’s growing privatization of both K-12 and higher education. All the more reason to act with caution, and to be as financially independent as possible. Having babies at 20 in hopes of getting discounts on daycare does not fall into the “act with caution” category.

120

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Retirement benefits may disappear as well. If you are 65 and your children are 25 and still “looking around”, and the retirement system is bankrupt - what would one do? One can’t be forever “financially independent”. Sooner or later you have to depend on your family. And if you don’t have it?