<p>mythmom, what a story in your post #293. I really appreciated you writing it and am happy things have worked out for you. I do agree with you.</p>
<p>In a different sort of situation, a friend of mine in college became engaged to a highly paid professional. She made a very good salary, but was deeply in debt because she was a huge shopaholic. Why buy one set of steak knives when you could buy 10? Her house was loaded with useless stuff, at a fairly young age. He insisted that she pay off her debt before they got married, and surprisingly she found a way to do so. I don’t think he would have insisted upon that if it hadn’t been frivolous debt, and they have been married for many years now. So generally, I wouldn’t say debt should be a major factor-but sometimes it might be worth considering.</p>
<p>We went to marriage counseling before getting married and we went through worksheets going over your assets and liabilities (personality and other stuff in addition to $). One other couple that we knew was going through this too and they were both very good friends of ours. It turns out that premarital sex was a deal-breaker for the lady - she was from one of the islands and raised traditionally. My guess is that they found this out through the counseling process.</p>
<p>Tiger Woods’ idea of a marriage counselor is Monty Hall.</p>
<p>Many churches offer pre-marital counseling/classes, but typically those are held so close to the wedding date that “bad uncovered info” is often ignored.</p>
<p>It’s unfortunate that many people don’t think of DATING as a pre-marital activity. If people viewed the dating process as a “weeding out” process of undesirable marriage partners, many wouldn’t find themselves “in love” with a bad match. The important questions would get asked early on…Do you like/want children?, Do you want a more traditional marriage?, How would you split home responsibilities?, How would you split child rearing responsibilities?, Are you a big saver?, How much debt do you have?, What is your religion? Do you care what religion your children are raised? etc.</p>
<p>My husband and I did but there were no worsheet of assets and liabilities, only to be aware of people of different personalities and such. I think it’s pre-marital counseling that was suggested by the priest that was going to marry us. It was extremely useful and I think that’s contributed to one of the many reasons why we are still happily married. Or maybe the secret to our marriage is that my husband is a non-spender and always happy to let his wife spend.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t the guy have figured this out when the lady didn’t have sex with him? Did they only meet recently?</p>
<p>I definitely feel pre-marital counseling and discussion of things like finances, children, etc, is ideal for a relationship. Especially children. You can change your mind on how you handle finances or who works later, but you can’t have half a child. (Unless Solomon is around, ho ho ho.)</p>
No one in my family or any of my nieces and nephews show any signs of being like this. My husband and I lived in shared housing until we were 30. We live reasonably modestly in one of the most expensive counties in the US. Except for computer upgrades our kids don’t seem any more interested than we are in spending a lot of money. </p>
<p>That said, I do think it’s critical that potential mates get on the same page regarding personal finances. If they are both happy (and capable of) scrimping and saving to pay off the debt, I don’t see a big problem.</p>
<p>DH and I didn’t have pre-marital counseling - but we had been a couple for seven years and lived together for the last three of them. We knew each other pretty well - including financially. :)</p>
<p>My D is one who does “need” designer handbags, much to my chagrin. She just feels awful if she isn’t perfectly put together and everything she has isn’t perfectly well-made. She has made her bags the only gift she gets at times and buys everything off ebay for 1/4 the price of new. I haven’t been able to break her of the habit, but she does scrimp in many areas. (Not on books.)</p>
<p>I am not a library person either because book dust is death for asthma.</p>
<p>But I am a bit of a raggamuffin. Maybe DD is reaction formation.</p>
<p>Anyway, she is presently living with BF and it is heartwarming to see them both giving up favorite things to make the rent. He gave up cigarettes (yay) and she gave up anything but Hershey’s chocolate, and they stay in and COOK!!!</p>
<p>So, yeah, we may all have areas that look indulgent to others, but most kids can get with the program when they have to.</p>
<p>Both my kids earned all their own spending money in college through their own choice, so they have SOME idea of how to budget themselves.</p>
<p>That said, DS earned this money to have spending money to take GF out to dinner. So I’m not sure if that’s good or bad, but at least he didn’t ask me for it. They were both on the meal plan at their schools.</p>
<p>Agreed, Pizzagirl…this generation can be quite surprising! My older D is quite the saver–looks for bargains, won’t buy new clothes (“These sweatpants still have another year’s worth of wear in them…”), hates to spend money on anything other than travel. Trust me, this was NOT the way she was raised!</p>
<p>I realize not EVERY kid wants brand-name clothes, shoes, purses, but anyone who’s been on several college campuses (north, south, east, and west) would quickly notice the prevalence of Polo/Lacoste shirts, Sperry top-siders, brand-name jeans, designer purses, highlighted hair, manicured nails, pricey makeup, etc. </p>
<p>I think that THOSE kids would have a hard time adjusting to long-term cutting back to afford big loans. Yes, most can do it for awhile - maybe a year or two/three, but I doubt many could do it for 5-10 years or more without it causing major fights/stress. Usually all it takes is the need for a big purchase - such as a car or major appliance - for the tight budget to come undone.</p>
<p>I knew a girl that met a guy and they went through the counseling process at our church. It appears that the minister told them that they shouldn’t get married with the implication that they couldn’t get married at that church. Of course they got married at the JP. Later on I found out why they wanted to get married. She was emotionally needy and he wanted sex. The marriage did not last very long.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids-
We must have spent time on different college campuses. I saw tshirts, polos (the style, not the brand), hoodies, jeans and backpacks. That was true for the guys and the girls. Didn’t see fancy purses, shoes, and I wouldnt have a clue how to identify expensive makeup on the coeds.</p>
<p>At son’s State U, people don’t spend a lot on clothes, computers, etc.</p>
<p>At Boston College, kids have money to spend and they spend it. It’s amazing to see what kids are wearing or using in the library there. It’s a big change from serving Irish Roman Catholics when I went there.</p>
<p>While I woudln’t use the word ‘stupidity’ I *would *agree with the sentiment that that kind of worldview would necessitate a different approach. Since I don’t have kid who need “stuff”, and who support themselves on little, willingly, and who are not drawn to people who need “stuff”, maybe I can afford to advise them differently (were it any of my business, of course, which it is not) than others feel they should.</p>
“Stuff” can be different things to different people. Some consider elite educations at full freight to be as materialistic a purchase as buying a Lamborghini, especially when great educations can also be had at lesser expensive (and outwardly prestigious) schools. Different people spend money differently according to their preferences and values, but excessive expenditure is excessive expenditure, whether it is spent on a $200,000 education, a shore house, fancy cars, a huge wardrobe, or whatever else. People can be materialistic in many different ways.</p>
<p>Very true… I have a brother who is notoriously cheap (keeps the water heater on warm - lol), but he only buys real butter, the best cuts of beef, real maple syrup, and has an extensive gun collection. Everyone has their splurges that someone else might think “what a waste.” My own husband might be seen as a “minimalist,” but not if you looked at his golf clubs.</p>
<p>Of course. I guess the question is, could what you prefer be possible on a very limited budget? TXK seems to think so; I have found out during the parts of my life where my budget was very limited due to loans that this is entirely possible and acceptable. My D and SO make a very modest amound between the two of them, and live very frugally. Yet they, like mom2’s brother, are particular about food quality. And they travel a lot. They’ll never have a typical UMC lifestyle, but overall frugality and deciding what is really important to them that’s possible within their budget are choices they can make. Which I think goes back to the topic at hand–young people with similar values who can accept a lesser lifestyle will do fine. And even more to the topic–the decision process really, really should belong to them.</p>
<p>I have had this talk with my kids and I have mentioned to my sons that I would hope they keep their loans down so as not to bring this burden into a marraige if it could be avoided. One son will have very high loans because he will be attending professional school. However, I would be appalled if he met a young lady that would not marry until his loans were paid off or if her parents had suggested this. </p>
<p>As for my daughter who will probably not be a large earner…I hope she will marry because she is so deeply in love that wheather he has very large loans or not, he will want what is best for my girl and do what it takes to ease the burden. I would never tell my daughter to not marry because of loans, other things YES, not loans.</p>