How would you feel about your kid marrying someone with large student loan?

Parents Forum
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<p>Having a spouse that is sober, ambitious, hard-working and committed to the family can make up for a lot “dings” that a spouse may bring to a marriage.</p>

<p>Amen to that…and having substantial educational debt might just be that one “ding.” That’s why I don’t think it should ever be considered a “deal breaker” when it comes to marriage.</p>

<p>And anxiousmom, I loved your post. Oh well, there’s that silly romantic in me coming out again. (Although, like my own marriage, I’m going to assume yours wasn’t all romance and roses and pure happiness…marriage is definitely hard work and even the best of them have difficult times.)</p>

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<p>^^Well that’s just it! Everyone will come as a package deal with assets and liabilities. Someone without debt might have irresponsible parents who need to be supported. Some people will be closet drug addicts, or have a dysfuntional relative that will guilt them into giving money. Suppose FIL had a stroke, and has no assets and can no longer work, but needs financial help to rebuild parts of their home to make it handicapped accessible for independance. Would that be a deal breaker too? Perhaps GF has a twin sister who runs up credit card debt because she has a sick child who requires some medical care that is not covered by her insurance. She asks for her sister’s help. Is that a deal breaker? Suppose future DH has an expensive hobby that he is not willing to give up. He might be selfish, but would that be a deal breaker? </p>

<p>I know someone who was spending $700 month 25 years ago for a beach home rental. It was his “escape” as a single person. He gave it up eventually, but what if he refused to. Is that a deal breaker? For some it would be, for others it would not be. This little hobby was eating up a lot of money that he felt he could afford as a single man.</p>

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<p>Having a spouse that is sober, ambitious, hard-working and committed to the family can make up for a lot “dings” that a spouse may bring to a marriage.</p>

<p>Someone without debt might have irresponsible parents who need to be supported. Some people will be closet drug addicts, or have a dysfuntional relative that will guilt them into giving money.</p>

<p>Of course the big picture needs to be considered. The OP was just using this one “ding” as an example. The OP wasn’t suggesting that it’s better to pick a lazy drunk over a hard-working person with big debt LOL.</p>

<p>I do think that while initially dating (before falling in love), such things should become known (big debt w/ poor future means to repay, drinking problems, liar, cheater, laziness, etc). </p>

<p>I have a niece who recently left a marriage because she had NO idea that her H had such massive debt. It soon became clear to her that one of his main attractions to her was that she had a high income, which he wanted to use to repay his debt.</p>

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<p>How about all other things being equal?</p>

<p>How about arranged marriages?</p>

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<p>^^I understand, mom2college. I am just saying that everyone comes with assets and liabilities, and one might not be aware of them all until one is married for some time. Even then, situations will arise and one needs to work them out with one’s spouse as best as possible. Additionally, if you don’t marry “for love”, but pick a partner for financial stability that you could “learn to love”, you might be happy or you might be absolutely miserable. The reverse may also be true. I know people who divorced because they married for money, and I know people who divorced because of the lack of money and debt.</p>

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<p>I have two sisters that had school debt. One of them had a tough time of it because she couldn’t keep a steady job (that particular industry while normally a good choice didn’t have a lot of jobs in her geographic area). They both married into family wealth which solved their financial problems.</p>

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<p>I am just saying that everyone comes with assets and liabilities, and one might not be aware of them all until one is married for some time.</p>

<p>Very true… Oftentimes the dating environment (and even “living together”) can’t reveal how a person will be once married with children. </p>

<p>Temperment is very important on both sides. Impatient, hot-tempered, self-centered, overly emotional people can be very difficult to be married to and share parenting with.</p>

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<p>mom2college, I completely agree. Life has ups and downs, and for 99% of folks it is not going to be smooth sailing 100% of the time. I would hate being married to someone who is explosive, no matter how much money is in this person’s bank account. For me, nothing is worth putting up with walking on egg shells on a daily basis, and just waiting for the guy to explode. Self centered, ala Tiger (IMO), is also a disaster. Here is the example of a very rich guy that would make me miserable.</p>

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<p>Like so many young couples, I was starry eyed when I married H. I was a full believer of love would conquer all. But soon after we got married we realized that we had very different “philosophy” when it came to money - he was used to have the best, and I was into bargains (because of my immigrant background). I used to cringe whenever H wanted to buy things(I would be sure it would be 5 times of more than what I would spend). I used to argue with him when I disagreed with the spend, but because our finance has improved it became less of an issue. I stopped arguing with him over small things. In time I started to appreciate his philosophy of buying better and buying less (go for the quality), and he started to see there maybe some good buys in sale items. I think if we were barely getting by, then the difference in our spend would have created a bigger rift between us. But because we were able to afford some of those spend differences we were able to get pass it and appreciate some of our other better qualities in each other - integrity, loyalty, love, family. </p>

<p>In a few years when our kids are out of school, some of our friends start to move away, all we’ll have left is each other again. If there is no love or similar interests, it would be hard to stay with each other just for financial security.</p>

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<p>*I was a full believer of love would conquer all. But soon after we got married we realized that we had very different “philosophy” when it came to money - he was used to have the best, and I was into bargains *</p>

<p>Also, men and women view money very differently - which is why one side will often criticize what the other spends money on. Some men think nothing of spending money on sports, electronics, satellite TV, Big screens, show cars, etc, while they’ll have a fit over their wives expenses for kids’ needs, clothes, hair salons, shoes, etc (and vice versa). </p>

<p>In virtually the same week, a friend’s husband became upset when she bought some pricey shoes for their D, while insisting that his new fishing rod purchase was necessary (even though he has a bunch of them already). </p>

<p>I remember when we bought baby furniture (crib and dresser) the same week as my H bought new golf clubs. He kept referring to the crib and dresser as my expense (LOL) to justify his expense. (Believe me, he got a firm straightening out after that crazy thought. LOL) Imagine thinking that an inexpensive baby furniture set (bought on clearance) was the “wife’s expense.”</p>

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<p>I agree Northeastmom, nothing is worth walking on egg shells. I knew many affluent women at an old job 15 years ago. For some it was a “business”, they got what they wanted (they thought) and the husband got what he wanted (and more) When jobs were lost, tension came with the children, they were miserable, because they married the “idea” of something,not the other person. Some of the men were big cheaters, abusive in speech (hopefully not physically also) and I never envied them despite the ease to being able to pay for things. Some told me not wanting anyone with debt or low pay, had them put on blinders that hid a lot of sins.
Contrary to that, my neighbors are 2 grad students in Religion and Philosophy, they have debt, work and take care of a child, but they are so happy. They don’t have much, but they have a lot and they feel they have their soul mate. Their marriage was based on love and a lot of respect and if it takes 10 years for them to pay off loans, or 15, they went in with eyes wide open and had a plan and both didn’t feel the need for things others can’t live without.
I am scared for the many students that don’t have a clue what debt they will be in and charge to pay for things they should pay for with a pay check. Any relationship will be strained if that mentality continues, the “instant gratification” scenerio we see so much of.</p>

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<p>debruns, I agree with your concerns, and how wonderful for your neighbors. I’d rather be in their shoes than in some abusive marriage. Also, money can come and money can go. You might be wealthy in 2009, but not necessarily 10 years later. You might be able to make more money with your money, but you can also lose it all. Nobody has a crystal ball about that either. </p>

<p>All of that said, something in this country must change so that our young people do not have to be forced to take on too much debt in exchange for a college education. I understand that nobody is “entitled” to that private school education, but in our state, the public instate COA is just not reasonable for a middle class or lower income family. It may be a bargain for the family earning 250,000 per year, but it is just too much for the family earning 60,000 per year. Frankly, I think it is very sad.</p>

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<p>This thread makes me a bit ill, I have to admit.</p>

<p>From my experience by the time young people are talking about marriage it’s a “done deal” and nothing parents say will do anything but create animosity.</p>

<p>My ex’s parents thought me a poor risk. I have severe asthma, quite severe. They advised him against “taking me on” and they would say.</p>

<p>I turned down an Ivy acceptance for grad school because it would have necessitated loans for one year (in a Humanities discipline). The debt load would have been about $35,000 and I was mindful of my in-laws negative attitude toward me. Instead, I got a fully funded PhD. I really limited my employment options by this choice.</p>

<p>My ex chose a very expensive PhD, but to do him justice he went part-time while he was working.</p>

<p>He thought it was taking me too much time to write my dissertation. Although I adjunct taught and always earned something of a living, he thought I didn’t earn enough money, partially influenced by his parents I suspect. </p>

<p>He left me. I scrambled. He married a young woman who had a mid-range social services job.</p>

<p>Fast forward. His wife got breast cancer and died, leaving him with a four year old and six year old. He was never able to finish his dissertation and did not complete his PhD. He was a very low level job in his field. </p>

<p>I have been tenured, teaching English at the college level for 25 years. I remarried a man who is not a top earner, but has always been here for his family. I have paid for him to get a masters in his field. (His second masters.) I don’t know if it will enhance his earning capacity (it’s Fine Arts related) but it is improving his self-esteem and the quality of his work.</p>

<p>His business crashed after 9/11 and I supported the family on my salary for a full year.</p>

<p>As a college professor I did not need nannies or day care centers. I took four years off, and then the kids were in pre-school while I taught. Not only did that save expenses, it allowed me to be a full-time mom, which is what I wanted. At the same time, I had a full-time career, which I also wanted.</p>

<p>Were my in-laws right? Asthma is a serious liability. They were very pleased with their new daughter-in-law who was fitter and more physical than I. They certainly couldn’t see the lurking breast cancer.</p>

<p>On the other hand, her life insurance/pension pretty much funded my ex’s life, so perhaps she was a good choice after all. (Of course I am being sarcastic here, although the facts are true.)</p>

<p>There are too many variables in mate selection to choose one and over-emphasize it, including religion, politics, health or debt. And so much of the future is unknown.</p>

<p>And in my experience, there is a mystical, not-to-be-denied element that brings the parents of children together. Sometimes it just feels beyond our control. I know it did for me, and my mom sames the same thing.</p>

<p>Would I caution kids against a fiance(e) with debt? No.</p>

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<p>mythmom, I’m sorry to hear how your ex-in-laws were very unfair to you.</p>

<p>I think the difference is simply mentioning the risk and then letting it go, OR continue to be annoyed at your child’s decision. Once your first husband decided to marry you, the in-laws should have been fully supportive.</p>

<p>Obviously, each person can come up with stories that counter conventional wisdom. Would I warn a son who was thinking of marrying a woman with 6 young kids, who had a low or no income and no child support coming in? YES. Does that mean that there aren’t cases where such situations work out beautifully? NO. But, conventional wisdom would suggest that that marriage is “high risk.”</p>

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<p>Fair enough. I tried to point out problems with my son’s GF who had serious emotional problems. And I wouldn’t have gone so far as to suggest he break up with her, just attend to to some of the issues.</p>

<p>He said, “it’s a done deal.”</p>

<p>And he almost destroyed himself in the process. Still, being fully supportive of him is the only thing that saved him.</p>

<p>I know that if he had decided to marry her, debt would have been the last thing on his mind.</p>

<p>I am somewhat happy to report that the relationship did not endure, but I had to totally accept that it would.</p>

<p>My mom has been very generous financially to my H (more than to me I must say) because she is quite relieved someone is always here with me to help with health problems.</p>

<p>I am just trying to say that fate is so much more mysterious than we can glimpse from our very limited perspective.</p>

<p>I agree that there is nothing wrong with pointing out the consequences of certain situations to a child. Especially when we can’t help ourselves.</p>

<p>Still, college debt would not be the thing that would raise a red flag with me. YMMV.</p>

<p>I am not bitter anymore. It all worked out for the best.</p>

<p>I had some insane ideas too and a lot I had to learn. Probably still do. No, correct that to definitely still do.</p>

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<p>I definitely think, from the students perspective, that there is a game changing difference between mentioning that you feel there is a risk and actually saying you don’t think they should get married. What ****ed me off so much about BF’s mom saying he shouldn’t marry me because of my health was that she wasn’t just pointing it out to make sure he’d thought of it, while that would still irk me that is just the parental thing to do, but she was actually coming out and saying that I was not marriage material (and, given the circumstances, that was so hypocritical it made my head spin). There is a subtle difference between the two, and while both may upset somebody, Option A is much more tactful than option B. </p>

<p>In short, there is a big difference between “do not marry this person that has debt,” and “make sure you have a plan and you are ready for this because marrying someone with debt can get messy.”</p>

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<p>DH and I both had equal amounts of UG debt – but we both came from families that were notoriously poor money managers, and we knew we did not want to end up that way. Money was one of the major things we have always seen eye-to-eye on, and so far, both our kids seem to have the same frugal gene.</p>

<p>DH went back to professional school after we had been married three years and we took on that debt together, knowingly and willingly. We called it the mortgage on his brain. Sure, it took til we were 37 and had two kids in elem school before we bought our first house, but that was part of the journey we chose to take together. And we sure as heck didn’t expect I’d get cancer four years later and that I’d be out on medical leave for five years. But we have life insurance, bought less house than we could afford in the first place, and are frugal, and it has worked out OK.</p>

<p>I’d be more concerned that a couple have compatible views on money and spending than over a specific amount of debt. A potential spouse who had much more debt than the other partner might raise some eyebrows on my part, but that is an issue for THEM to work on. If you can’t communicate about money freely and honestly before marriage, it’s going to be a darned tough road when there are kids, a mortgage, day care, car payments, job losses, elderly parents, etc.</p>

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<p>If someone considers designer purses and top brand clothes to be “necessities”, the problem is not their finances but their stupidity.</p>

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<p>I think it really depends on the post graduation career plan. In some fields, undergrad diploma makes a huge difference since the firms won’t even recruit from non-target schools (Wall Street comes to mind). If a kid is truly set on a certain career field where the diploma really makes a difference and where there are a great deal of opportunities to get a very high paying job and the school in question is truly outstanding, then there is a rational basis for a large loan - even though it is still risky (s/he can change his/her mind about the career choice).</p>

<p>However, if a kid is talking about a loan of total $200K to go to a very expensive private school simply because it’s the “dream school” without any understanding of what it truly means, you really have to wonder about the maturity and sanity of the kid involved. </p>

<p>On CC forums for some private universities, you sometimes encounter “dreamy eyed” HS juniors and seniors who blithely post something like “my mom tells me she can only spend $10K year, but I don’t care if I have get $200K loan - if they accept me, I am going, no matter what - oh by the way, I want to study comparative literature”. I cringe, and almost wish that the school will reject them as a favor to them! (no offense to comparative literature, I am just talking about the balance between the life crippling debt and the earning potential of the occupation)</p>

<p>I have married friends who live very modestly and frugally. They saved a lot all these years for their kids’ education. Both of their kids went to Ivy+Plus, very well known, prestigious and expensive schools. Both of them had a full ride option from top 20-40 schools but obviously their dream was to attend the top 10 schools. Both have graduated by now. One is a math substitute teacher after a stint at a large corporation, which she did not like, and the other one is studying calligraphy - her passion now. Meanwhile, the parents, my friends, are in their 60’s now, and additional $400 in the retirement account would have made a huge difference. At least, the first one is self supporting. The second one is being fully supported by her parents post graduation while she is learning the fine art of calligraphy on her own.</p>

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<p>And in my generation, the names were different, but the concept was the same - Izod and Polo, Ray-bans, Sperry Topsiders, Calvin Klein jeans, Bermuda bags, etc. Nothing new under the sun. There’s no reason to think today’s generation is any less able to scrimp and save if need be.</p>