<p>Okay. I'm game.</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Brown
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Penn</p>
<p>I think they're all great but...</p>
<p>Harvard is overrated, more of a grad student focus.
Brown & Dartmouth are best in terms of UG focus.
Everyone except for CC people think U Penn is a state school... Haha.</p>
<p>Collegehelp: Your numbers in Post #20 are incorrect. For example, Northwestern University's total mid-range SATs from the matriculated students in the Fall of 2007 were 1350-1520 & are now higher. In fact, the numbers for several schools are incorrect &/or from different years. What is your source? A better list would be one comparing statistics from the same year, in my opinion.</p>
<p>SAT 25th percentile for the matriculated class Fall, 2007:</p>
<p>CalTech 1470
Harvey Mudd 1430
Harvard 1400
Yale 1400
Princeton 1390
MIT 1380
Pomona 1380
WashUStL 1370
Swarthmore 1360
Columbia 1360
Northwestern 1350</p>
<p>Stanford 1340
Duke 1340
Williams 1340
Tufts 1340
Dartmouth 1330
Penn 1330
Brown 1330
Chicago 1330
Amherst 1330</p>
<p>Rice 1310
Reed 1310
Claremont McKenna 1310
Carleton 1310
Vassar 1310
Wash. & Lee 1310
Wellesley 1300
Middlebury 1300
Emory 1300
Notre Dame 1300
Vanderbilt 1300
Georgetown 1300
Wesleyan 1300</p>
<p>Cornell 1290
Johns Hopkins 1290
Haverford 1290
Carnegie Mellon 1290
Brandeis 1280
Colby 1280
USC 1270
Oberlin 1270
Davidson 1270</p>
<p>Lol you can't have Cornell engineering seperated from A&S and then have the second stat include A&S PLUS engineering. </p>
<p>Why not just Cornell A&S. BECAUSE it would be out of the top 20, that's why. Ridiculous attempt by a Cornell booster to inflate Cornell's scores.</p>
<ol>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Brown</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Dartmouth</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Pennsylvania</li>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
</ol>
<p>It's rather pointless to rank by SAT anymore, because the SAT averages and ranges for most top colleges and universities are declining.</p>
<p>Based on the matriculated students for the Class entering in the Fall, 2007, SAT 25th percentile, the Ivies rank among the top 35 college & universities is:</p>
<p>3) Harvard
4) Yale
5) Princeton
10) Columbia
16) Dartmouth
17) Penn
18) Brown
34) Cornell*</p>
<p>*Bowdoin & Bard report higher 25th percentile SAT scores, but are not included because they are both SAT optional.
I do, however, agree that it is unfair to include CalTech & Harvey Mudd in my post #23 above because they are both less than 900 students each & are engineering schools. It might be more appropriate to compare CalTech & Harvey Mudd only with other engineering schools or engineering colleges within a university setting.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why not just Cornell A&S. BECAUSE it would be out of the top 20, that's why. Ridiculous attempt by a Cornell booster to inflate Cornell's scores.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Cornell Arts and Sciences is 1320-1510. I don't think anybody is trying to inflate Cornell's scores (how could we? scores are scores), but rather present a meaningful comparison with some of the engineering colleges like CalTech, Harvey Mudd, MIT, etc.</p>
<p>If you care, the Hotel School has a 1250-1400 range, while the Ag School has a 1230 to 1460 range. Of course, those stats are rather meaningless as "fit" is a much more important consideration for acceptance into those schools than scores. Don't believe me? Tell that to the ED kids on the Cornell board who were rejected with 1500+ SATs to some of Cornell's contract colleges.</p>
<p>Ultimately, though, I agree with kwu. Not only are SAT scores playing an increasingly marginal role in admissions decisions anyways, but they have always been biased towards students who enroll more students from the upper-middle class. So I'm not sure of their utility.</p>
<p>SATs are still the best equalizer due to the lack of uniformity in course grading & course difficulty among the thousands of high schools nationwide. Ironically, the Hotel School at Cornell University is regarded by many as the best in the world.</p>
<p>
[quote]
SATs are still the best equalizer
[/quote]
If normalized for student population.</p>
<p>Here is another ranking by math SATs.
Cornell Arts and Sciences is the same as Brown.
Cornell Engineering may be the most selective individual school in the Ivy League, although Princeton's Engineering school SATs are not available. </p>
<p>Cornell Engineering 720 790
Harvard University 700 790
Princeton University 700 790
Yale University 690 790
Dartmouth College 680 780
University of Pennsylvania 680 770
Columbia University in the City of New York 670 780
Brown University 670 770
Cornell Arts and Sciences 670 770
Cornell University 660 770
Cornell Industrial Relations 660 740
Cornell Architecture and Art 650 760
Cornell Hotel 650 720
Cornell Human Ecology 640 740
Cornell Agriculture 630 640</p>
<p>You can;t seperate engineering from the rest of the school. If you separated out the math/ engineering scores at any Ivy they would be much higher than the rest of the school.</p>
<p>^ Does Dartmouth have engineering?</p>
<p>I agree with Slipper123. Unfortunately, Collegehelp's posts are making Cornell Univ. look bad & as if it is suffering from an inferiority complex. What's next?-a breakout of the top 5% of Cornell engineering grads 8th grade GPAs?</p>
<p>While the Ivies are all terrific, unlike most other colleges and their athletic conferences, most are stronger when referred to as part of a group than they would be on their own. </p>
<p>No one doubts that Harvard, Yale, Princeton transcend the Ivies. One can debate the varying degrees of undergraduate focus found on these campuses, but their institutional brand power is undeniable. </p>
<p>Contrast that with the remaining Ivies. Ask someone outside the NE about the other Ivies and you're more likely to get a blank stare than anything else. Most folks would struggle to name more than one or two, if that. But say the magic words "Ivy League" along with the school's name and get ready for the ooohhs and aaahhs. Not that that is a rational, intelligent response, but it speaks loudly to the power of labels in our society. </p>
<p>With regard to this question, if I define it as which is the best place to go for undergraduate, then….</p>
<p>Dartmouth
Brown</p>
<p>Princeton</p>
<p>Yale
U Penn</p>
<p>Harvard</p>
<p>I agree if the undergraduate is interested in a liberal arts curriculum, but for specific majors, certain schools rise above the rest of the Ivies. For example, if one wants to study business or finance, then Penn's Wharton School is the best. Hotel industry, labor relations or agriculture, then Cornell is in a league by itself. Theatre/drama, then Yale. Sciences? History? etc.? Urban setting? Then Columbia, Penn, Yale, Brown & Harvard. Bucolic setting? Then Dartmouth & Cornell.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You can;t seperate engineering from the rest of the school. If you separated out the math/ engineering scores at any Ivy they would be much higher than the rest of the school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Who says you can't? Cornell has nothing to hide. If any of the other schools broke out their data, I'm certain people would talk about them. Besides, there are almost as many engineering students at Cornell as students at Dartmouth, so it's a big enough "college".</p>
<p>Besides, you never responded to any of my earlier points re: undergraduate resources.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Unfortunately, Collegehelp's posts are making Cornell Univ. look bad & as if it is suffering from an inferiority complex. What's next?-a breakout of the top 5% of Cornell engineering grads 8th grade GPAs?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There you go again with your silly and immature points, ColdWind. If anybody is being insecure here it certainly isn't the Cornellians. As I mentioned before the engineering numbers were brought up to present a meaningful comparison with some of the engineering colleges like CalTech, Harvey Mudd, MIT, etc. And the Arts and Science numbers can be used to compare to liberal arts schools. I don't see what the big deal is.</p>
<p>The bigger point that everybody is missing is that there is more variation within any college than there are across a lot of these colleges. Comparing Dartmouth and Cornell may be instructive in this matter. Slipper, may argue that Dartmouth's average SAT score is 50 points higher than Cornell -- 1450 vs. 1400. Okay fair enough. But the average variation at Dartmouth between any two students is probably 60 or 70 points, which is larger than the average difference between a Dartmouth student and a Cornell student. So there's more variation in "aptitude" within these schools than across these schools and all of these comparisons by SAT scores are largely a waste of time, especially because so many of the schools have started to discount SAT scores fairly heavily, and as UBC alludes, there's no way to control for the various inputs into SAT score performance.</p>
<p>Sorry if I offended you CayugaRed, but that is my reading of the posts. No need to be rude & resort to namecalling as you are not helping your cause, in my opinion.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why not just Cornell A&S. BECAUSE it would be out of the top 20, that's why. Ridiculous attempt by a Cornell booster to inflate Cornell's scores.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What a ridiculous and insecure reaction! I don't know anyone from Dartmouth that would think like that. To only include Cornell A&S vs the other Ivy schools allows the other schools to have some of their highest scorers included in their averages, but does not allow Cornell to do the same. </p>
<p>Collegehelps's example of comparing Cornell's A&S + Engineering SAT scores to the other seven Ivies to me is a justified manner of putting things as apples to apples as possible. Pretty much everyone who is applying to Dartmouth who is considering Cornell too would be applying to one of those two schools at Cornell.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't know anyone from Dartmouth that would think like that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, now you know one.</p>